• Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.

Denied on basis of being a CredoBaptist

heymikey80

Quidquid Latine dictum sit, altum viditur
Dec 18, 2005
14,496
921
✟41,809.00
Faith
Calvinist
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
Of course, "Calvin didn't mean what he wrote, Luther didn't either...Zwingli changed his position!" Paedobaptism was a change made by the "church", Calvin admits this and many in the Reformed church admit this. What isn't being admitted to is which "church" changed the practice and why.
EO baptizes infants -- and will pour on proselytes if the guy's too big. Dunks babies (at least the third time :wave:).

No early church was documented to not baptize infants.

The controversy by 200 was whether to delay baptism 'til your death, due to its quick presumed dependency for regeneration (cf Tertullian).
Didn't even stop for a second to read it... I took a short break from this forum and have to admit I do not miss the magisteral smugness often found in the theology of the Reformed.
... versus the self-justified smugness of the theology of the Baptist? Hm.

I like Baptists. I just can't commune with their churches -- though I'm open communion, obviously they aren't.

It seems kind of a small thing blown out of proportion. It's supposed to be an ordinance for Baptists, right? Why such divisiveness over an interpretive issue?

11For it has been reported to me by Chloe’s people that there is quarreling among you, my brothers. 12What I mean is that each one of you says, "I follow Paul," or "I follow Apollos," or "I follow Cephas," or "I follow Christ." 13 Is Christ divided? Was Paul crucified for you? Or were you baptized in the name of Paul? 14I thank God that I baptized none of you except Crispus and Gaius, 15so that no one may say that you were baptized in my name. 16(I did baptize also the household of Stephanas. Beyond that, I do not know whether I baptized anyone else.) 17For Christ did not send me to baptize but to preach the gospel, and not with words of eloquent wisdom, lest the cross of Christ be emptied of its power. 1 Cor 1:11-17
Now hey thinks he knows what was in the mind of a copyist? Give me a break.
Give me a reason to give you a break. It's not a slip of the pen that would turn one word so dramatically into another.
 
Upvote 0

JustAsIam77

Veritas Liberabit Vos
Dec 26, 2006
2,551
249
South Florida
✟39,308.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Protestant
Marital Status
Private
Politics
US-Republican
11For it has been reported to me by Chloe’s people that there is quarreling among you, my brothers. 12What I mean is that each one of you says, "I follow Paul," or "I follow Apollos," or "I follow Cephas," or "I follow Christ." 13 Is Christ divided? Was Paul crucified for you? Or were you baptized in the name of Paul? 14I thank God that I baptized none of you except Crispus and Gaius, 15so that no one may say that you were baptized in my name. 16(I did baptize also the household of Stephanas. Beyond that, I do not know whether I baptized anyone else.) 17For Christ did not send me to baptize but to preach the gospel, and not with words of eloquent wisdom, lest the cross of Christ be emptied of its power. 1 Cor 1:11-17

Amen

16 Then remembered I the word of the Lord, how that he said, John indeed baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost.
Acts 11:16
 
Upvote 0

ReformedChapin

Chapin = Guatemalan
Apr 29, 2005
7,087
357
✟33,338.00
Faith
Calvinist
Marital Status
Private
Apples and oranges, besides, Paul to the Corinthians talking about the Table and the congregation makes it a pretty safe to arrive there.
No it doesn't.

You say 1 appled +1 apple = 2 apples (for baptism)

but for peaches you say

1 peach + 1 peach = 3 ( for the lords supper)

You can play all of these games you want but the logical implication is still the same arbitrary hermenutic. Only the reformed hermenutic stands to criticism. Apply all the covenant promises unless modified.



Because RC, Baptism in Greek means immerse.

baptiðzw - strongs # 907




[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Geneva]
  1. to dip repeatedly, to immerse, to submerge (of vessels sunk)
  2. to cleanse by dipping or submerging, to wash, to make clean with water, to wash one's self, bathe
  3. to overwhelm
[/FONT][FONT=Verdana, Arial, Geneva]Not to be confused with 911, bapto. The clearest example that shows the meaning of baptizo is a text from the Greek poet and physician Nicander, who lived about 200 B.C. It is a recipe for making pickles and is helpful because it uses both words. Nicander says that in order to make a pickle, the vegetable should first be 'dipped' (bapto) into boiling water and then 'baptised' (baptizo) in the vinegar solution. Both verbs concern the immersing of vegetables in a solution. But the first is temporary. The second, the act of baptising the vegetable, produces a permanent change. When used in the New Testament, this word more often refers to our union and identification with Christ than to our water baptism. e.g. Mark 16:16. 'He that believes and is baptised shall be saved'. Christ is saying that mere intellectual assent is not enough. There must be a union with him, a real change, like the vegetable to the pickle! Bible Study Magazine, James Montgomery Boice, May 1989. [/FONT]
No baptism has a numerous interpretaions. You again choose what you like and use it for your isogesis.





Berkof makes it clear the clearest sense of the word means unity with the water not necesserly immersion. Based on the definitions you posted there is no clear commandment for immersion.
  1. to cleanse by dipping or submerging, to wash, to make clean with water, to wash one's self, bathe
  2. to overwhelm
The point of baptism is the essence of being cleaned by the water not the actual act of immersion which baptist go wacky about.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

the particular baptist

pactum serva
Nov 14, 2008
1,883
235
Currently reside in Knoxville, TN
Visit site
✟18,268.00
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Married
No baptism has a numerous interpretaions. You again choose what you like and use it for your isogesis.

The most common use of the word was to dip, plunge, or immerse. You guys are digging into Hebrew ceremonial laws to dig up a definition for immerse that really means sprinkle.

BTW, any of you guys who swear immerse means sprinkle ever went online and did a search for Byzantine era Baptistries ? I'll give you a hint, they werent for sprinkling.
 
Upvote 0

ReformedChapin

Chapin = Guatemalan
Apr 29, 2005
7,087
357
✟33,338.00
Faith
Calvinist
Marital Status
Private
The most common use of the word was to dip, plunge, or immerse. You guys are digging into Hebrew ceremonial laws to dig up a definition for immerse that really means sprinkle.

BTW, any of you guys who swear immerse means sprinkle ever went online and did a search for Byzantine era Baptistries ? I'll give you a hint, they werent for sprinkling.
We recognize that it's the water which matters not reading into the mode. There is no specific "only" immersion command for the mode you just read into the word. Although the OT does speak about sprinkling we realize that either mode works but it's the water which matters not trying to read into the text . The OT law command is valid all are unless modified.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

the particular baptist

pactum serva
Nov 14, 2008
1,883
235
Currently reside in Knoxville, TN
Visit site
✟18,268.00
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Married
There is no specific "only" immersion command for the mode you just read into the word.

Bro, there doesnt have to be a specific command to immerse, because baptize means immerse.

The difference is as vast as this; I'll be eating at lunch today, but when lunch comes i take a nap. You ask why i took a nap when i said i would be eating, and i tell you, bro, where im from eating means napping. And you say, no it doesnt, eating means eating. And you would be right.

Baptize means immerse. Had the AV translators been faithful to the english language instead of the Church of England, we wouldnt be having this conversation because the word would have been properly translated immerse.
 
  • Like
Reactions: JM
Upvote 0

heymikey80

Quidquid Latine dictum sit, altum viditur
Dec 18, 2005
14,496
921
✟41,809.00
Faith
Calvinist
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
The most common use of the word was to dip, plunge, or immerse. You guys are digging into Hebrew ceremonial laws to dig up a definition for immerse that really means sprinkle.

BTW, any of you guys who swear immerse means sprinkle ever went online and did a search for Byzantine era Baptistries ? I'll give you a hint, they werent for sprinkling.
How about ancient baptistries ... like the earliest one to date, Dura Europos? I'll give you a hint, it couldn't submerge an adult. pre 250 AD.

Dura Europos | s i l o u a n

So which was it -- pouring on adults or immersing babies?
 
Upvote 0

heymikey80

Quidquid Latine dictum sit, altum viditur
Dec 18, 2005
14,496
921
✟41,809.00
Faith
Calvinist
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
Bro, there doesnt have to be a specific command to immerse, because baptize means immerse.

The difference is as vast as this; I'll be eating at lunch today, but when lunch comes i take a nap. You ask why i took a nap when i said i would be eating, and i tell you, bro, where im from eating means napping. And you say, no it doesnt, eating means eating. And you would be right.

Baptize means immerse. Had the AV translators been faithful to the english language instead of the Church of England, we wouldnt be having this conversation because the word would have been properly translated immerse.
21 He was driven from among the children of mankind, and his mind was made like that of a beast, and his dwelling was with the wild donkeys. He was fed grass like an ox, and his body was wet with the dew of heaven, until he knew that the Most High God rules the kingdom of mankind and sets over it whom he will. Daniel 5:21

That term "wet" in the Septuagint says "baptized".

Heavy dew, that Babylon.

In any event, if Nebu can be baptized with that amount of water, so can anyone else.

Face it. The word does not mean "immersed". It probably points to a similar effect or product, due to tense. That'd mean it's more akin to "covered", but not by submergence, by the fact that the person is wet.
 
Upvote 0

the particular baptist

pactum serva
Nov 14, 2008
1,883
235
Currently reside in Knoxville, TN
Visit site
✟18,268.00
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Married
"It is a fact recorded in Scripture, that the Holy Ghost gave the name of Baptist to one named John. In other words, John was a Baptist. John never sprinkled infants but, as Thomas Boston says, "He baptized none but those who confessed their sins." "John the Dipper" was the name given him by godly Hollanders of the Reformed Churches in bygone days. Accordingly it is not surprising that some of us, together with John, should be called Dippers. The example of our Lord is not unimportant and very few paedo-baptists will deny that He was baptised by immersion in the river Jordan."


Ebenezer J. Knight, former pastor of Zion Strict Baptist Church, Grand Rapids.
 
Upvote 0

the particular baptist

pactum serva
Nov 14, 2008
1,883
235
Currently reside in Knoxville, TN
Visit site
✟18,268.00
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Married
How about ancient baptistries ... like the earliest one to date, Dura Europos? I'll give you a hint, it couldn't submerge an adult. pre 250 AD.

Dura Europos | s i l o u a n

So which was it -- pouring on adults or immersing babies?

I acknowledge from the earliest times people decided to invent their own ways of baptism. So ? Baptize means immerse, not pour.
 
Upvote 0

ReformedChapin

Chapin = Guatemalan
Apr 29, 2005
7,087
357
✟33,338.00
Faith
Calvinist
Marital Status
Private
Bro, there doesnt have to be a specific command to immerse, because baptize means immerse.

The difference is as vast as this; I'll be eating at lunch today, but when lunch comes i take a nap. You ask why i took a nap when i said i would be eating, and i tell you, bro, where im from eating means napping. And you say, no it doesnt, eating means eating. And you would be right.

Baptize means immerse. Had the AV translators been faithful to the english language instead of the Church of England, we wouldnt be having this conversation because the word would have been properly translated immerse.
Bro there does need to be a command, baptize means unite with water/wet, yo. And your analogy is fallacious it would be more comparing the word love, the word love can be used in different senses such as love between a mother and her child or sexual passionate love. The word baptism there is no necessity of it being immersion. Aight? Fo reals.

Seems you baptists think us reformed people are so dumb we can't understand the basic meaning of a word. But we aint the dumb ones, we just don't like to over analyze and neglect more 1/2 the bible which explicitly includes infants in the covenant community.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

ReformedChapin

Chapin = Guatemalan
Apr 29, 2005
7,087
357
✟33,338.00
Faith
Calvinist
Marital Status
Private
"It is a fact recorded in Scripture, that the Holy Ghost gave the name of Baptist to one named John. In other words, John was a Baptist. John never sprinkled infants but, as Thomas Boston says, "He baptized none but those who confessed their sins." "John the Dipper" was the name given him by godly Hollanders of the Reformed Churches in bygone days. Accordingly it is not surprising that some of us, together with John, should be called Dippers. The example of our Lord is not unimportant and very few paedo-baptists will deny that He was baptised by immersion in the river Jordan."


Ebenezer J. Knight, former pastor of Zion Strict Baptist Church, Grand Rapids.
Again there is a reason why we accept both modes....dohy. Frankly I want to see the scriptural evidence how you know that john the baptist only immersed and it's not you reading into the text...again.
 
Upvote 0

the particular baptist

pactum serva
Nov 14, 2008
1,883
235
Currently reside in Knoxville, TN
Visit site
✟18,268.00
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Married
Bro there does need to be a command, baptize means unite with water/wet, yo.

What i meant was, although there is the command to be baptized, there doesnt have to be a command as to the mode, because the word means immersed. Properly translated it says "He that believes and is immersed" Mark 16.

Seems you baptists think us reformed people are so dumb we can't understand the basic meaning of a word. But we aint the dumb ones, we just don't like to over analyze and neglect more 1/2 the bible which explicitly includes infants in the covenant community.

The ad hominem aside, i understand where the presbyterian brothers arrive at infant sprinkling, i just think it to be an invention and carried on by tradition, not the NT, which i believe interprets the OT, not the other way around.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

the particular baptist

pactum serva
Nov 14, 2008
1,883
235
Currently reside in Knoxville, TN
Visit site
✟18,268.00
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Married
Again there is a reason why we accept both modes....dohy. Frankly I want to see the scriptural evidence how you know that john the baptist only immersed and it's not you reading into the text...again.

Are you serious ?
 
Upvote 0

the particular baptist

pactum serva
Nov 14, 2008
1,883
235
Currently reside in Knoxville, TN
Visit site
✟18,268.00
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Married
Okay friends i will be unsubscribing to this thread, hopefully, but not without leaving you a gift of the following few quotes from an article written by the former pastor of Zion Strict Baptist Church of Grand Rapids, Ebenezer J. Knight. He wrote it in response to a paedobaptist in Grand Rapids who took it upon himself to publish a pamphlet called "Why I'm Not A Baptist" and proceeded to hand them out to members of baptist churches in Grand Rapids including Zion Baptist. The writer of the pamphlet made eight statements as to why he is not a baptist. I'll be posting each of the eight statements followed by Mr Knight's response.

For all to enjoy.
 
Upvote 0

the particular baptist

pactum serva
Nov 14, 2008
1,883
235
Currently reside in Knoxville, TN
Visit site
✟18,268.00
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Married
ONE
"1. Baptists allow that the Lord included the children of the Jews in the ministration of the Covenant. In the Old Testament days that ministration was confined to one nation. After the day of Pentecost the ministration of the Covenant was to be extended to all the nations, but, say the Baptists, now the Lord excluded the children from it. Is there ONE text in the whole Bible where it is stated that the Lord made such a change?

And if not, who gives the Baptists the right to exclude children from the ministration of the Covenant, if the Lord does not do it? Likely there were some of the same mistaken notion even among Christ's disciples who rebuked those that brought young children to Him; see in Mark 10:13, 14, how much it displeased Him. And it is plainly taught in 1 Corinthians 7:14 that the children of believers are, with their parents, in a covenant relation."



In this first point the writer is assuming that the "ministration" of the Covenant in the Old Testament and New Testament are the same. But the Westminster Confession of Faith correctly states, "This Covenant was differently administered in the time of the law, and in the time of the gospel" (ch. 7; sect. 5 and 6). I agree that the Covenant of Grace is essentially the same in both the Old and New Testaments, but if the ministration of it is supposed to be the same, there are three pertinent questions I would ask:

(I) Why is baptism administered to female infants? Circumcision was administered to males only in the old dispensation.
(2) Why are not servants baptized as well as children? They were circumcised in the old dispensation.
(3) Why is not the Lord's Supper observed by the whole household as the Passover was in the old dispensation?


The writer also assumes that the Church of the Old Testament was the same as the Church of the New Testament, and because the infant children of the Israelites were included in the former, therefore all the infant children of believers have a right to be included in the latter. The fact is, however, there never was any organised body of believers in the Old Testament dispensation which exactly corresponded to the Christian Church; and in no essential outward manifestation can it be said that the Commonwealth of Israel is the same as the Church of the New Testament, It will be seen that the writer draws an unscriptural and unwarranted analogy between the covenant of circumcision and what he calls the "ministration" of the Covenant of grace, and in doing this he confounds and confuses things that differ.

Simply stated, the position of infants in regard to the Covenant of grace has always been the same from the time the Covenant was made until now; they are wholly out of it in the same way as adults are, that is, they are either elect or non-elect. The view that there is a New Testament "ministration of the Covenant" wherein non-elect people, infants or otherwise, are admitted, we reject as unscriptural. Taking the whole tenor of the writer's arguments, we are asked to 'believe, so it appears, that there is something in the nature of two phases or stages in the Covenant of grace; the first possessing certain undefined privileges falling a little way short of the salvation of those who are in it; the second, that which finally secures their salvation. Several advocates of infant baptism have spoken to me about this and they all argue differently.

Candidly, I have yet to find a mere three people in the church to which this writer belongs, who will argue the same and give any semblance of agreement among themselves. Even their ministers do not agree among themselves. I take it that this sort of "external sphere" of the Covenant is the same as the "ministration" of it; some have spoken of the "scope" of it. We Strict Baptists do not believe that there is such a thing as a Covenant with a kind of outer court wherein the baptized infants (whether elect or non-elect) of believing parents receive privileges denied to infants not so baptized.

I do not want to be unduly personal, much less unkind, or use any unfair argument in contending for what I believe to be the truth, but I cannot forbear considering the case of my own dear children. If it were possible, how gladly would I present them to the writer of "Why I am not a Baptist." I would invite him to question them on their upbringing, their parents' discipline (which I am sure they would remember), the form and mode of worship taught them; and finally ask them to "give a reason of the hope that is in them." And then, as they stood before him with their God-given husbands and God-given children - none of them baptized as infants - I would say to him, "Now friend, pray come and, in all honesty before God, tell me what these dear children lack in comparison with those whom you say are within the ministration of the Covenant."

However, it may be that the great covenant privilege which baptized infants are supposed to possess is that, if they die before coming to years of discretion, they are saved. But how is it - O will someone please tell me! - how is it that if they live to reach the years of discretion and become "covenant-breakers" they are irretrievably lost?


It will be noted also that in this paragraph the writer tells us that it is plainly taught in 1 Corinthians 7:14 that the children of believers are, with their parents, in a covenant relation. I could readily name and quote many paedo-baptist divines who emphatically disagree with this premise. If we look at the context in Scripture, we find that, in the Corinthian church, there were Christian wives who, at the time of their conversion, found themselves married to pagan husbands; and Christian husbands who were married to pagan wives. This led the believing Corinthians to ask, "Is it lawful for us to continue to live with our unbelieving spouses?" In verses 12 and 13 Paul gives them his advice and says, "the unbelieving husband is sanctified by the wife, and the unbelieving wife is sanctified by the husband; else were your children unclean; but now they are holy." This cannot mean that an unbelieving wife or husband possessed spiritual holiness; for in that case, a person could be spiritually holy and yet remain an infidel or heathen at the same time.

The words "sanctified" and "holy" must be understood in a relative sense, and Paul says that, in spite of the unbelief of one of the parties, their matrimony was lawful; that they were sanctified or set apart to each other as husband and wife, and that their being together in this relationship was pleasing to God. 'If it were not so,' Paul seems to teach, 'if you were unclean to each other, that is, not fit to associate together as husband and wife, your children would be also unclean to you, and you would have to put them away; but now they are holy, that is to say, legitimate and clean to you, so that you may retain them in your homes as objects of your affection and care.'


In this passage there is not one word about baptism, nor even an allusion to it; nor does the argument bear upon it. In fact, the more the passage is studied, the more readily may we conclude that at the time the apostle writes, infant-baptism was unknown in the Corinthian church. Had it been otherwise, the apostle would have inferred the holiness of children from their baptism instead of from their having a Christian father or mother.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

the particular baptist

pactum serva
Nov 14, 2008
1,883
235
Currently reside in Knoxville, TN
Visit site
✟18,268.00
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Married
TWO
"2. I'll not take time to count how often Scripture is stressing the solidarity of the family, frequently expressed with the words, their and thy seed. In the little pamphlet 'Some Thoughts on Infant Baptism' I have proved from Scripture with numerous quotations that the Lord deals with a family as a whole, not only in the Old Testament times, but also in the days of the New Testament. Even in the first sermon that was preached after the outpouring of the Holy Spirit you hear Peter say, 'The promise is unto you and to your children.' When the Baptists say, 'The promise is unto you, believers,' omitting the words, 'and to your children,' they remind me of that man that for the third time was hailed into court for stealing. When the judge pointed out to him that he should not persist in stealing, the thief said, 'You see, your honour, the Bible says, "Let him that stole, steal."' 'O no,' said the judge, 'the Bible says, "Let him that stole, steal no more."' To that the criminal replied, 'I know it, I know it, your honour, but you see. I have no use for these two words.'


"Have you observed how often people in quoting Scripture take only that part of the text that suits them or their case, omitting the part for which they have no use? . . . And do the Baptists dare to say, We have no use for these words, 'and thy seed' or 'and to your children?'"




My answer to this is that I have certainly observed how often people omit those parts of a text which does not suit their way of things, and there is a very glaring case of it now before our eyes. I raise an accusing but well-meaning finger at our friend the writer of the pamphlet and say. "Thou are the guilty man!" We do not say, as it is alleged we do, "The promise is unto you believers" omitting the words "and to your children"

We prefer to keep closely to the word of God both in quoting and practising it, and we quote the verse in question in its entirety without curtailing it as the criminal did to suit his ends, and as our friend has done to suit his. In his quoting the verse, it seems that the criminal had no use for two words, but what has our friend done with the ten, "even as many as the Lord our God shall call?" Evidentially he has no use for them, but we have, for we do not like to rend asunder what God has joined together. Every unprejudiced person will agree that the words the writer has omitted do, in fact, qualify all the characters referred to as coming within the scope of the promise.

The promise is unto "as many as the Lord our God shall call" from among "you and your children," that is, your posterity; meaning such of them as had been or should be effectually called by grace; and to "as many as the Lord our God shall call" from among "all that are afar off." My experience is that very few paedo-baptists will advance this verse in proof of their views, and I note that several eminent paedo-baptist divines state categorically that the verse should not be adduced to establish the propriety of infant baptism.

I will give here an extract from a sermon I preached on April 9th, 1961 on Matthew 28:19-20, - one of the few occasions when I spoke at length on the ordinance of believers' baptism: "Peter said, 'For the promise is unto you and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.' Firstly, "the promise."

This appears to be that referred to in verses 16-21 of the same chapter, where the apostle, quoting from the prophecy of Joel, speaks of the time when the Spirit of God should be poured out upon 'all flesh,' all men without distinction. Secondly, the characters; 'The promise is unto you.' What greater crime than that of crucifying the holy Son of God? What unutterable anguish of spirit must they have experienced when convicted of their sin and guilt! But the promise gives them hope. It is 'unto you.' Thirdly, 'and to your children,' that is, to your posterity.

The Jews well knew the word of the Lord spoken through Moses to their forefathers; how that God would by no means clear the guilty and would visit 'the iniquity of the fathers upon the children and upon the children's children, unto the third and fourth generation' (Exodus 34:7). But see the great and condescending love and mercy of the Lord here: 'the promise is unto you and to your children.' Only a parent can realise what this reference to their posterity meant to them.

Then again, the Jews had most solemnly invoked the curse of God upon their children as well as upon themselves, 'His blood be upon us and on our children.' In mercy, therefore the promise is extended to include all who were under that terrible curse. Then the Holy Spirit speaking through Peter, says that the promise is 'to all them that are afar off'; not merely geographically, but as regards time also; some not born and some, I trust living in the year 1961.

Then, as if to gather up the different characters in terms which are incontrovertible, we read, 'even as many as the Lord our God shall call.' See how beautifully the Holy Ghost gathers up the remnant according to the election of grace. Here are the people and here is the number of them, all those, each and everyone, whom the Lord our God shall call."
 
Upvote 0

the particular baptist

pactum serva
Nov 14, 2008
1,883
235
Currently reside in Knoxville, TN
Visit site
✟18,268.00
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Married
THREE
"3. Baptists insist that the order of the words 'He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned' (Mark 16:16) unmistakably indicates that no one should be baptised who cannot give an account of his saving faith. But the order of the words does not necessarily determine the sequence of the things meant by the words; 'and' is a copulative, and I could mention dozens of scriptures that make it plain that frequently the word 'and' simply means 'both of them'."




In reply, we are being told that in Mark 16:16 the word 'and' is a copulative. That may be so, but it does so happen that the Holy Ghost and not man has put 'believing' before 'baptizing' in that context. To do otherwise would be contrary to the whole tenor of Scripture. In the same sense that we Strict Baptists use this verse to show that no one should be baptized without first believing and making a confession of faith, the church to which the anti-Baptist writer belongs uses it to show why a confession should be made by all adult persons, without exception, who are going to be baptized. The wording in their 'Form for the Administration of Baptism' is as follows:-


'It is not lawful to baptize those who are come to years of discretion, except they first be sensible of their sins, and make confession of both their repentance and faith in Christ. For this cause did not only John the Baptist preach (according to the command of God) the baptism of repentance, and baptized for the remission of sins, those who confessed their sins (Mark 1 and Luke 3); but our Lord Jesus Christ also commanded His disciples to teach all nations, and then to baptize them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost (Matthew 28; Mark 16), adding this promise, "He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved."

According to which rule, the apostle, as appeareth from Acts 2,10 and 16, baptized none who were of years of discretion, but such as made confession of their faith and repentance. Therefore it is not lawful now to baptize any other adult person, than such as have been taught the mysteries of holy baptism, by the preaching of the gospel, and are able to give an account of their faith by the confession of the mouth."


That is the wording of their form for the administration of baptism, however, I am in some difficulty to know what our opponent does believe on this point as I understand that, in practice, some adults are admitted to his church without making a confession of their faith and repentance.
 
Upvote 0