Denied on basis of being a CredoBaptist

[Anoetos]

How do you get credible profession of faith to see if there indeed is a work of grace .... from an infant ?

I forgot Baptists assume that all infants are unregenerate.

 

[JustAsIam77]

How do you get credible profession of faith to see if there indeed is a work of grace .... from an infant ?

I was baptized as an infant, as far as credibility of my profession of faith I look to scripture, as always, for direction in these matters.


And as I began to speak, the Holy Ghost fell on them, as on us at the beginning.

Then remembered I the word of the Lord, how that he said, John indeed baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost. Forasmuch then as God gave them the like gift as he did unto us, who believed on the Lord Jesus Christ; what was I, that I could withstand God? Acts 11:15-17

 

[lovemygod316]

Calvinists are often worried about being called hypers and go the other way becoming hyper evangelists. As if running around with Bible tracts is a gage on spiritual fitness.

I was a Baptist when I was first saved, and they believe in the "shotgun" approach to evangelism. You know, throw enough tracts out there and SOMEONE is bound to be saved from one of them. And that's fine, I'm sure God has a purpose for them, or else He would not have called them to be such. But I now believe that when it is appropriate for me to share the Gospel with someone, the opportunity will prevent itself and I will share it. I don't know exactly where my future will bring me, but God sure does.

 

[the particular baptist]

I forgot Baptists assume that all infants are unregenerate.

Yes. Until there is a genuine work of grace.

 

[the particular baptist]

Hebrews 6:4-6 and Hebrews 10:26ff make something of a conundrum if the church is not composed of regenerate and unregenerate.

The context and original audience of Hebrews is pretty unique.

Oh, and many, many baptist churches don't leave it at that. I'm not welcome to become a member of baptist churches in my area.

You would if you submitted to Biblical baptism and gave an account of a work of grace.

Are those baptist churches freewillers ? If they are, they are as baptist as my next door neighbor.

 

[Anoetos]

Yes. Until there is a genuine work of grace.

And yet David says:

Psalm 22:9-10
Yet you are he who took me from the womb;
you made me trust you at my mother’s breasts.
On you was I cast from my birth,
and from my mother’s womb you have been my God.

Now, it can be argued that David here is either an exception himself, or that the richly messianic nature of this psalm speaks of Christ, obviously unique. But I don't find such either/or, baby/bathwater distinctions either useful or, really, even true to a full orbed view of Scripture as it relates to children in the covenant.

 

[the particular baptist]

And yet David says:



Now, it can be argued that David here is either an exception himself, or that the richly messianic nature of this psalm speaks of Christ, obviously unique. But I don't find such either/or, baby/bathwater distinctions either useful or, really, even true to a full orbed view of Scripture as it relates to children in the covenant.

I understand your position adequately. The difference between us is i understand the NT to be the interpreter and final arbiter of the Old. And yes, every Psalm is messianic, mo.

 

[Anoetos]

I understand the same: the New is the lens through which we interpret the Old. We have this analogia fidei in common.

The real difference seems to be that I don't assume this to mean the complete restructuring of the covenant. The newness of the New Covenant lies, mainly, in the inclusion of believing Gentiles and in it's being based in a completed legal requirement, it's benefits available solely by Grace, rather than in a complete discontinuity of forms, types and particulars.

 

[cajunhillbilly]

I understand the same: the New is the lens through which we interpret the Old. We have this analogia fidei in common.

The real difference seems to be that I don't assume this to mean the complete restructuring of the covenant. The newness of the New Covenant lies, mainly, in the inclusion of believing Gentiles and in it's being based in a completed legal requirement, it's benefits available solely by Grace, rather than in a complete discontinuity of forms, types and particulars.

I agree completely Amen

 

[AndOne]

I understand the same: the New is the lens through which we interpret the Old. We have this analogia fidei in common.

The real difference seems to be that I don't assume this to mean the complete restructuring of the covenant. The newness of the New Covenant lies, mainly, in the inclusion of believing Gentiles and in it's being based in a completed legal requirement, it's benefits available solely by Grace, rather than in a complete discontinuity of forms, types and particulars.

Why aren't gentile Christians required to circumcise their children then?

 

[ReformedChapin]

Why aren't gentile Christians required to circumcise their children then?

because baptism has taken it's place.

 

[heymikey80]

The context and original audience of Hebrews is pretty unique.

If you'd like I can cart out the Galatians 5 verse.

You would if you submitted to Biblical baptism and gave an account of a work of grace.

That's simply not true, bub. Because I already have.

I simply disagree with their position that this is required.

Check out your church. You'll find the same. The count of baptistic churches that don't hold to this view is very, very tiny.

It's outrageous to require more than Christ does to be a member of Christ's church. I say this to confront many different churches, but the offense is pretty clear in baptistic churches.

 

[JM]

mikey, I understand you're getting thrashed in this discussion but calling him "bub?" lol

 

[cajunhillbilly]

You call everybody "bub" or "bud" in Texas LOL

 

[AndOne]

because baptism has taken it's place.

Where is this stated in scripture?

 

[heymikey80]

mikey, I understand you're getting thrashed in this discussion but calling him "bub?" lol

The truth matters, not who wins the debate.

Can you refer me to the membership criteria for your church? How about TPB's?

Let's see who's following Christ's criteria for church membership when it comes to baptism.

 

[heymikey80]

Why aren't gentile Christians required to circumcise their children then?

Because under circumcision you'd cease to be a Gentile. You'd be a Jewish person, inducted into the Law.

And that's not what Abraham was promised -- "in you the Gentiles will be blessed."

15 To give a human example, brothers: even with a man-made covenant, no one annuls it or adds to it once it has been ratified. 16Now the promises were made to Abraham and to his offspring. It does not say, "And to offsprings," referring to many, but referring to one, "And to your offspring," who is Christ. 17This is what I mean: the law, which came 430 years afterward, does not annul a covenant previously ratified by God, so as to make the promise void. 18For if the inheritance comes by the law, it no longer comes by promise; but God gave it to Abraham by a promise. Gal 3:15-18

2Look: I, Paul, say to you that if you accept circumcision, Christ will be of no advantage to you. 3I testify again to every man who accepts circumcision that he is obligated to keep the whole law. Gal 5:2-3

So in reality -- it's not that Gentile Christians are not required to undergo religious circumcision, as if it's left up to them. It's actually that Gentile Christians are required not to undergo religious circumcision.

Finally, to answer a question before it's asked, this clearly can't apply to Jewish Christians the same way as it applies to Gentile Christians. Jewish Christians are Jewish Christians. We're one church; but Jewish Christians are not to be forced out of the Jewish ethnos on the same argument that Gentiles shouldn't get enticed into Judaizing.

 

[AndOne]

Because under circumcision you'd cease to be a Gentile. You'd be a Jewish person, inducted into the Law.

Apparently that's not how some of your fellow padeobaptists feel - which is why I asked them the question...

 

[JustAsIam77]

Regarding the OP, it should not be divisive, if someone is denied membership in a forum for being a CredoBaptist it is most unfortunate.

 

[JM]

Regarding the OP, it should not be divisive, if someone is denied membership in a forum for being a CredoBaptist it is most unfortunate.

A line re-drawn in the sand.