Denaturalization

[Yttrium]

I've been reading lately about suggestions to denaturalize legal immigrants. The Trump administration has already been working on revoking green cards and deporting legal immigrants in certain cases. I'd like to know what people around here thing about this, and specifically how far the government should be able to go.

Should the government be able to denaturalize legal immigrants if they've committed crimes in the US? Or for any reason at all? For that matter, should the government be able to revoke the citizenship of citizens born in the US and deport them? Although discussion of babies born in the US of illegal immigrants would deserve another thread, I wouldn't consider it to be off topic here.

Personally, I am currently against denaturalization unless fraud was committed during the application process (as per 8 U.S.C. Section 1451). As far as I'm concerned, once you're a citizen, you remain a citizen unless you voluntarily move out and revoke your citizenship.

Now, this isn't meant as a criticism of the Trump administration. They're exploring the legality of denaturalization, and that's fine. I would just hope that they run into a hard legal wall.

MSN

 

[Reluctant Theologian]

I've been reading lately about suggestions to denaturalize legal immigrants. The Trump administration has already been working on revoking green cards and deporting legal immigrants in certain cases. I'd like to know what people around here thing about this, and specifically how far the government should be able to go.

Should the government be able to denaturalize legal immigrants if they've committed crimes in the US? Or for any reason at all? For that matter, should the government be able to revoke the citizenship of citizens born in the US and deport them? Although discussion of babies born in the US of illegal immigrants would deserve another thread, I wouldn't consider it to be off topic here.

Personally, I am currently against denaturalization unless fraud was committed during the application process (as per 8 U.S.C. Section 1451). As far as I'm concerned, once you're a citizen, you remain a citizen unless you voluntarily move out and revoke your citizenship.

Now, this isn't meant as a criticism of the Trump administration. They're exploring the legality of denaturalization, and that's fine. I would just hope that they run into a hard legal wall.

MSN

Removing/deporting a legal immigrant is not denaturalisation - that's only removal of citizenship. Removing/deporting legal immigrants because of fraud or crime committed while being a legal resident is also standard procedure in other countries (a.o. Australia).

In several countries where dual citizenship is allowed there are also laws that remove the acquired, second citizenship of the new host country in case of serious crimes like terrorism etc. (e..g in Europe in some countries). The person is then simply deported back to the country of this remaining citizenship.

Both categories make sense to me. Why allow residents if they prove to be a serious burden (or worse) to the guest country?

E.g. in Australia being seriously overweight or having some other serious medical condition can be valid reasons why visas are denied. Migrant quotas are limited so a country can be picky in who's allowed in.

When I'm organising a party it's wise not to invite those who thrash my place - or at least remove them when they do.

 

[Yttrium]

Removing/deporting a legal immigrant is not denaturalisation - that's only removal of citizenship. Removing/deporting legal immigrants because of fraud or crime committed while being a legal resident is also standard procedure in other countries (a.o. Australia).

I'm talking about denaturalization here. I'm not concerned about just revoking green cards in this thread.

In several countries where dual citizenship is allowed there are also laws that remove the acquired, second citizenship of the new host country in case of serious crimes like terrorism etc. (e..g in Europe in some countries). The person is then simply deported back to the country of this remaining citizenship.

Both categories make sense to me. Why allow residents if they prove to be a serious burden (or worse) to the guest country?

E.g. in Australia being seriously overweight or having some other serious medical condition can be valid reasons why visas are denied. Migrant quotas are limited so a country can be picky in who's allowed in.

When I'm organising a party it's wise not to invite those who thrash my place - or at least remove them when they do.

Once they're citizens, they can trash the place and be arrested just like any other citizen.

 

[Oompa Loompa]

I've been reading lately about suggestions to denaturalize legal immigrants. The Trump administration has already been working on revoking green cards and deporting legal immigrants in certain cases. I'd like to know what people around here thing about this, and specifically how far the government should be able to go.

Should the government be able to denaturalize legal immigrants if they've committed crimes in the US? Or for any reason at all? For that matter, should the government be able to revoke the citizenship of citizens born in the US and deport them? Although discussion of babies born in the US of illegal immigrants would deserve another thread, I wouldn't consider it to be off topic here.

Personally, I am currently against denaturalization unless fraud was committed during the application process (as per 8 U.S.C. Section 1451). As far as I'm concerned, once you're a citizen, you remain a citizen unless you voluntarily move out and revoke your citizenship.

Now, this isn't meant as a criticism of the Trump administration. They're exploring the legality of denaturalization, and that's fine. I would just hope that they run into a hard legal wall.

MSN

I think immigrants should be asked, "If war broke out between the United States and your home country, which side would you support?" It the answer isn't immediately "The United States," they should leave.

 

[Larniavc]

Now, this isn't meant as a criticism of the Trump administration. They're exploring the legality of denaturalization, and that's fine. I would just hope that they run into a hard legal wall.

I've been reading lately about suggestions to denaturalize legal immigrants. The Trump administration has already been working on revoking green cards and deporting legal immigrants in certain cases. I'd like to know what people around here thing about this, and specifically how far the government should be able to go.

Should the government be able to denaturalize legal immigrants if they've committed crimes in the US? Or for any reason at all? For that matter, should the government be able to revoke the citizenship of citizens born in the US and deport them? Although discussion of babies born in the US of illegal immigrants would deserve another thread, I wouldn't consider it to be off topic here.

Personally, I am currently against denaturalization unless fraud was committed during the application process (as per 8 U.S.C. Section 1451). As far as I'm concerned, once you're a citizen, you remain a citizen unless you voluntarily move out and revoke your citizenship.

Now, this isn't meant as a criticism of the Trump administration. They're exploring the legality of denaturalization, and that's fine. I would just hope that they run into a hard legal wall.

MSN

 

[PloverWing]

As far as I'm concerned, once you're a citizen, you remain a citizen unless you voluntarily move out and revoke your citizenship.

I agree with this. If a citizen commits a crime, then they can be punished with prison or another appropriate penalty, but revoking citizenship shouldn't be on the table.

 

[Always in His Presence]

I've been reading lately about suggestions to denaturalize legal immigrants. The Trump administration has already been working on revoking green cards and deporting legal immigrants in certain cases. I'd like to know what people around here thing about this, and specifically how far the government should be able to go.

Do you have any links showing any of this?

As for denaturalization - that is a court issue. The President isn't saying he's going to unilaterally denaturalize, but look at the LEGAL methods available.

 

[Yttrium]

Do you have any links showing any of this?

Well, here's one:

Trump admin to "pursue the removal" of green card holders: What to know

Marco Rubio announced plans to deport certain lawful permanent residents after identifying their involvement with Haitian gangs.

www.newsweek.com

You could always ask ChatGPT for a list. It's not the topic here. I was just pointing out that Trump is already on the outskirts of denaturalization, poking around at the legal issues.

As for denaturalization - that is a court issue. The President isn't saying he's going to unilaterally denaturalize, but look at the LEGAL methods available.

Right. Denaturalization is currently a speculative topic. But now that Trump is exploring the idea, we should explore it too.

 

[Yttrium]

I think immigrants should be asked, "If war broke out between the United States and your home country, which side would you support?" It the answer isn't immediately "The United States," they should leave.

Hey, that would get rid of all the people who aren't spontaneous conversationalists too. We all know what trouble they are.

 

[durangodawood]

De-naturalization would be a terrific tool to enhance the power of the president.

 

[Valletta]

Yes, like the Somalis. Trump wants to get rid of the Somalis. Even naturalized Somalis, because, he says, hey are "garbage."

Joe Biden called Trump's supporters garbage, and Omar and her supporters have called Trump all kinds of names. How dare he on an occasion respond in kind.

 

[Yttrium]

Joe Biden called Trump's supporters garbage, and Omar and her supporters have called Trump all kinds of names. How dare he on an occasion respond in kind.

An opponent's bad behavior does not excuse bad behavior.

 

[BCP1928]

Joe Biden called Trump's supporters garbage, and Omar and her supporters have called Trump all kinds of names. How dare he on an occasion respond in kind.

Sure they have. Of course I don't remember that they called for him to be deported along with all others of the same ethnicity.

 

[Oompa Loompa]

(staff edit)
I would say their country is garbage and they often bring with them and culture that is incompatible with western democracy. But I wouldn't call the people "garbage." Some are good, but there needs to be a better vetting process before they enter the country. I think a simple solution is to ask them if the US declared war on their home country, who would they support? If the answer isnt the United States, they need to leave.

 

[durangodawood]

I would say their country is garbage and they often bring with them and culture that is incompatible with western democracy. But I wouldn't call the people "garbage." Some are good, but there needs to be a better vetting process before they enter the country. I think a simple solution is to ask them if the US declared war on their home country, who would they support? If the answer isnt the United States, they need to leave.

Did you hear him? The sneering contempt. It was chilling actually, hearing our head of state talk about whole nationality like that.

 

[Valletta]

Did you hear him? The sneering contempt. It was chilling actually, hearing our head of state talk about whole nationality like that.

It hardly should be chilling, Trump and Trump supporters have been called all kinds of names for a long time now.

 

[durangodawood]

It hardly should be chilling, Trump and Trump supporters have been called all kinds of names for a long time now.

A bunch of randos dont speak for me.

The President speaks for the country. And to hear those words and tone out of his mouth about a whole nationality of people genuinely disgusted me, as it would for most people - Id like to think.

 

[JSRG]

I'm talking about denaturalization here. I'm not concerned about just revoking green cards in this thread.

The issue is, your language indicated otherwise. You claimed:

I've been reading lately about suggestions to denaturalize legal immigrants. The Trump administration has already been working on revoking green cards and deporting legal immigrants in certain cases. I'd like to know what people around here thing about this, and specifically how far the government should be able to go.

"Denaturalize legal immigrants" is an oxymoron, because only citizens can be denaturalized. If you are a citizen, you were either born in the US (thus not an immigrant) or came to the US and gained citizenship, at which point your status is no longer "legal immigrant", a term normally used for those who immigrated legally but are not citizens. In a certain sense they still are, but the term is not normally used for that, and furthermore would certainly include the non-citizens.

Your phrasing in this topic thus leaves it unclear what you are talking about in some of your posts. Clearer terms to use would be:
1) "Naturalized citizen" for an immigrant who gained citizenship
2) "Legal immigrant" for a non-citizen immigrant who entered the country legally ("legal alien" would be even more clear, but the decline in "alien" as a term to refer to immigrants makes it sound odd)

 

[Yttrium]

If you are a citizen, you were either born in the US (thus not an immigrant) or came to the US and gained citizenship, at which point your status is no longer "legal immigrant", a term normally used for those who immigrated legally but are not citizens.

This. Denaturalizing them. Hope that clears things up.

 

[DaisyDay]

I think immigrants should be asked, "If war broke out between the United States and your home country, which side would you support?" It the answer isn't immediately "The United States," they should leave.

They are, in a way; as part of the nationalization swearing in, new citizens have to swear loyalty to the country and its constitution.