Demons?

[~Anastasia~]

OK, I'm accepting JM's invitation. I'm not at all here to debate. Just curious what his/your answers would be regarding the question - does the Reformed tradition teach the literal existence of demons?

If you ask in the Semper Forum I can offer an answer.

Thank you. It was really more a matter of does the xyz Church believe in abc doctrine ... but you've got my curiosity. If I can get caught up, I'll ask.

 

[St_Worm2]

.....does the Reformed tradition teach the literal existence of demons?

Hi Anastasia, yes, and here's a nice little summation of what that belief is so you can compare it with the EOC's (by Dr. J. I. Packer, Anglican/Calvinist, Professor, Regent College, BC).

DEMONS

GOD HAS SUPERNATURAL OPPONENTS​

They sacrificed to demons, which are not God—gods they had not known,
gods that recently appeared, gods your fathers did not fear.
DEUTERONOMY 32:17​

“Demon,” or “devil” as earlier translations rendered the words, is the Greek daimon and daimonion, the regular terms in the Gospels for the spiritual beings, corrupt and hostile to both God and man, whom Jesus exorcised from their victims in large numbers during his earthly ministry. The demons were fallen angels, deathless creatures serving Satan (Jesus equated Beelzebub, their reputed prince, with Satan: Matthew 12:24-29). Having joined Satan’s rebellion, they were cast out of heaven to await final judgment (2 Peter 2:4; Jude 1:6). Their minds are permanently set to oppose God, goodness, truth, the kingdom of Christ, and the welfare of human beings, and they have real if limited power and freedom of movement, though in Calvin’s picturesque phrase they drag their chains wherever they go and can never hope to overcome God.

The level and intensity of demonic manifestations in people during Christ’s ministry was unique, having no parallel in Old Testament times or since; it was doubtless part of Satan’s desperate battle for his kingdom against Christ’s attack on it (Matthew 12:29). Demons were revealed as having knowledge and strength (Mark 1:24; Mark 9:17-27). They inflicted, or at least exploited, physical and mental maladies (Mark 5:1-15; Mark 9:17-18; Luke 11:14). They recognized and feared Christ, to whose authority they were subject (Mark 1:25, Mark 3:11-12, Mark 9:25), though by his own confession it was only through effort in prayer that he was able to expel them (Mark 9:29).

Christ authorized and equipped the Twelve and the seventy to exorcise in his name (i.e., by his power—Luke 9:1, Luke 10:17), and the ministry of exorcism continues still as an occasional pastoral necessity. The sixteenth-century Lutheran church abolished exorcism, believing that Christ’s victory over Satan had suppressed demonic invasion forever, but this was premature.

Satan’s army of demons uses subtler strategies also, namely, deception and discouragement in many forms. Opposing these is the essence of spiritual warfare (Ephesians 6:10-18). Though demons can give trouble of many kinds to regenerate persons in whom the Holy Spirit dwells, they cannot finally thwart God’s purpose of saving his elect any more than they can finally avoid their own eternal torment. As the devil is God’s devil (that is Luther’s phrase), so the demons are God’s demons, defeated enemies (Colossians 2:15) whose limited power is prolonged only for the advancement of God’s glory as his people contend with them.

SATAN

FALLEN ANGELS HAVE A LEADER


One day the angels came to present themselves before the LORD,
and Satan also came with them.
JOB 1:6​

Satan, leader of the fallen angels, comes like them into full view only in the New Testament. His name means “adversary” (opponent of God and his people), and the Old Testament introduces him as such (1 Chronicles 21:1; Job 1-2; Zechariah 3:1-2). The New Testament gives him revealing titles: “devil” (diabolos) means accuser (i.e., of God’s people: Revelation 12:9-10); “Apollyon” (Revelation 9:11) means destroyer; “the tempter” (Matthew 4:3; 1 Thessalonians 3:5) and “the evil one” (1 John 5:18-19) mean what they say; “prince” and “god of this world” point to Satan as presiding over mankind’s anti-God life-styles (John 12:31, John 14:30, John 16:11, 2 Corinthians 4:4; cf. Ephesians 2:2; 1 John 5:19; Revelation 12:9). Jesus said that Satan was always a murderer and is the father of lies—that is, he is both the original liar and the sponsor of all subsequent falsehood and deceits (John 8:44). Finally, he is identified as the serpent who fooled Eve in Eden (Revelation 12:9, Revelation 20:2). The picture is one of unimaginable meanness, malice, fury, and cruelty directed against God, against God’s truth, and against those to whom God has extended his saving love.

Satan’s deceptive cunning is highlighted by Paul’s statement that he becomes an angel of light, disguising evil as good (2 Corinthians 11:14). His destructive ferocity comes out in the description of him as a roaring, devouring lion (1 Peter 5:8) and as a dragon (Revelation 12:9). As he was Christ’s sworn foe (Matthew 4:1-11, Matthew 16:23, Luke 4:13; John 14:30; cf. Luke 22:3, 53), so now he is the Christian’s, always probing for weaknesses, misdirecting strengths, and undermining faith, hope, and character (Luke 22:32; 2 Corinthians 2:11, 2 Corinthians 11:3-15; Ephesians 6:16). He should be taken seriously, for malice and cunning make him fearsome; yet not so seriously as to provoke abject terror of him, for he is a beaten enemy. Satan is stronger than we are, but Christ has triumphed over Satan (Matthew 12:29), and Christians will triumph over him too if they resist him with the resources that Christ supplies (Ephesians 6:10-13; James 4:7; 1 Peter 5:9-10). “The one who is in you is greater than the one who is in the world” (1 John 4:4).

Acknowledging Satan’s reality, taking his opposition seriously, noting his strategy (anything, provided it be not biblical Christianity), and reckoning on always being at war with him—this is not a lapse into a dualistic concept of two gods, one good, one evil, fighting it out. Satan is a creature, superhuman but not divine; he has much knowledge and power, but he is neither omniscient nor omnipotent; he can move around in ways that humans cannot, but he is not omnipresent; and he is an already defeated rebel, having no more power than God allows him and being destined for the lake of fire (Revelation 20:10). ~Packer, J. I. (1993). Concise theology: a guide to historic Christian beliefs. Wheaton, IL: Tyndale House.

 

[~Anastasia~]

Hi Anastasia, yes, and here's a nice little summation of what that belief is so you can compare it with the EOC's (by Dr. J. I. Packer, Anglican/Calvinist, Professor, Regent College, BC).

DEMONS

GOD HAS SUPERNATURAL OPPONENTS​

They sacrificed to demons, which are not God—gods they had not known,
gods that recently appeared, gods your fathers did not fear.
DEUTERONOMY 32:17​

“Demon,” or “devil” as earlier translations rendered the words, is the Greek daimon and daimonion, the regular terms in the Gospels for the spiritual beings, corrupt and hostile to both God and man, whom Jesus exorcised from their victims in large numbers during his earthly ministry. The demons were fallen angels, deathless creatures serving Satan (Jesus equated Beelzebub, their reputed prince, with Satan: Matthew 12:24-29). Having joined Satan’s rebellion, they were cast out of heaven to await final judgment (2 Peter 2:4; Jude 1:6). Their minds are permanently set to oppose God, goodness, truth, the kingdom of Christ, and the welfare of human beings, and they have real if limited power and freedom of movement, though in Calvin’s picturesque phrase they drag their chains wherever they go and can never hope to overcome God.

The level and intensity of demonic manifestations in people during Christ’s ministry was unique, having no parallel in Old Testament times or since; it was doubtless part of Satan’s desperate battle for his kingdom against Christ’s attack on it (Matthew 12:29). Demons were revealed as having knowledge and strength (Mark 1:24; Mark 9:17-27). They inflicted, or at least exploited, physical and mental maladies (Mark 5:1-15; Mark 9:17-18; Luke 11:14). They recognized and feared Christ, to whose authority they were subject (Mark 1:25, Mark 3:11-12, Mark 9:25), though by his own confession it was only through effort in prayer that he was able to expel them (Mark 9:29).

Christ authorized and equipped the Twelve and the seventy to exorcise in his name (i.e., by his power—Luke 9:1, Luke 10:17), and the ministry of exorcism continues still as an occasional pastoral necessity. The sixteenth-century Lutheran church abolished exorcism, believing that Christ’s victory over Satan had suppressed demonic invasion forever, but this was premature.

Satan’s army of demons uses subtler strategies also, namely, deception and discouragement in many forms. Opposing these is the essence of spiritual warfare (Ephesians 6:10-18). Though demons can give trouble of many kinds to regenerate persons in whom the Holy Spirit dwells, they cannot finally thwart God’s purpose of saving his elect any more than they can finally avoid their own eternal torment. As the devil is God’s devil (that is Luther’s phrase), so the demons are God’s demons, defeated enemies (Colossians 2:15) whose limited power is prolonged only for the advancement of God’s glory as his people contend with them.

SATAN

FALLEN ANGELS HAVE A LEADER


One day the angels came to present themselves before the LORD,
and Satan also came with them.
JOB 1:6​

Satan, leader of the fallen angels, comes like them into full view only in the New Testament. His name means “adversary” (opponent of God and his people), and the Old Testament introduces him as such (1 Chronicles 21:1; Job 1-2; Zechariah 3:1-2). The New Testament gives him revealing titles: “devil” (diabolos) means accuser (i.e., of God’s people: Revelation 12:9-10); “Apollyon” (Revelation 9:11) means destroyer; “the tempter” (Matthew 4:3; 1 Thessalonians 3:5) and “the evil one” (1 John 5:18-19) mean what they say; “prince” and “god of this world” point to Satan as presiding over mankind’s anti-God life-styles (John 12:31, John 14:30, John 16:11, 2 Corinthians 4:4; cf. Ephesians 2:2; 1 John 5:19; Revelation 12:9). Jesus said that Satan was always a murderer and is the father of lies—that is, he is both the original liar and the sponsor of all subsequent falsehood and deceits (John 8:44). Finally, he is identified as the serpent who fooled Eve in Eden (Revelation 12:9, Revelation 20:2). The picture is one of unimaginable meanness, malice, fury, and cruelty directed against God, against God’s truth, and against those to whom God has extended his saving love.

Satan’s deceptive cunning is highlighted by Paul’s statement that he becomes an angel of light, disguising evil as good (2 Corinthians 11:14). His destructive ferocity comes out in the description of him as a roaring, devouring lion (1 Peter 5:8) and as a dragon (Revelation 12:9). As he was Christ’s sworn foe (Matthew 4:1-11, Matthew 16:23, Luke 4:13; John 14:30; cf. Luke 22:3, 53), so now he is the Christian’s, always probing for weaknesses, misdirecting strengths, and undermining faith, hope, and character (Luke 22:32; 2 Corinthians 2:11, 2 Corinthians 11:3-15; Ephesians 6:16). He should be taken seriously, for malice and cunning make him fearsome; yet not so seriously as to provoke abject terror of him, for he is a beaten enemy. Satan is stronger than we are, but Christ has triumphed over Satan (Matthew 12:29), and Christians will triumph over him too if they resist him with the resources that Christ supplies (Ephesians 6:10-13; James 4:7; 1 Peter 5:9-10). “The one who is in you is greater than the one who is in the world” (1 John 4:4).

Acknowledging Satan’s reality, taking his opposition seriously, noting his strategy (anything, provided it be not biblical Christianity), and reckoning on always being at war with him—this is not a lapse into a dualistic concept of two gods, one good, one evil, fighting it out. Satan is a creature, superhuman but not divine; he has much knowledge and power, but he is neither omniscient nor omnipotent; he can move around in ways that humans cannot, but he is not omnipresent; and he is an already defeated rebel, having no more power than God allows him and being destined for the lake of fire (Revelation 20:10). ~Packer, J. I. (1993). Concise theology: a guide to historic Christian beliefs. Wheaton, IL: Tyndale House.

Very good, thank you.

While I didn't check every Scripture reference to see if we read each one the same way (though I suspect we pretty much do), I find I can agree with essentially everything presented here.

Not to argue, but with the POSSIBLE exceptions of whether the demonic forces were more intense during the time of Christ (this is possibly true, but I don't know that we would be sure if it - perhaps Christ was able to more readily identify them, and there is the hint of intensification near "the end" ... whether that end started with the Incarnation and continues today, or referred to a future time) ... and the idea that Christ admitted He could only cast them out by prayer? What that implies can go several ways. Personally, I took it to mean He was saying it required prayer and fasting of the disciples in order to do so. I'm speaking for myself - I'm not aware that the Orthodox Church has a position on that. I think Christ in His divinity has the power and authority to exorcise them, and the most charitable interpretation of the passage I can think of is that He somehow maintained His connection with or strengthened that part of His nature with prayer and fasting, which is possible but I think very tenuous.

But otherwise, I think we agree completely. I do understand that all you have presented is from the Bible, and we have the same understanding. Our teaching actually includes a bit more, gleaned from the experiences especially of those who devoted their lives to prayer - as you might imagine, such an effort places one on the "front lines" ... but those things fall more under the headings of practice than doctrine. The above article implies you have some of your own of these (in saying the potential need for exorcism continues).

Thank you for your reply. I hope I did not offend by offering comparison, as I took your post as an invitation to do so. And this is one of those happy cases I am always glad to discover in which I can affirm the teachings of brothers and sisters in Christ, and recognize what we hold in common.

God be with you.

 

[JM]

Dratz! someone beat me to it!

lol

There you have it.

jm

 

[~Anastasia~]

Dratz! someone beat me to it!

lol

There you have it.

jm

Sorry, JM! Thanks for the invite though. I am pleased to read the articles above, though I already commented on them.

Thanks again.

 

[St_Worm2]

Dratz! someone beat me to it!

lol

There you have it.

jm

Sorry Brother, I was hoping I was just getting us started with those two articles. Dr. Packer is good at explanations

--David

 

[JM]

It's all good. Great articles!

 

[sdowney717]

OK, I'm accepting JM's invitation. I'm not at all here to debate. Just curious what his/your answers would be regarding the question - does the Reformed tradition teach the literal existence of demons?

Sure demon exist, fallen angels exist, satan exists, question is how did demons become demons. If you say demons are fallen angels, then I don't believe that. They came about from fallen angels and human women producing Nephilim, who are the seed of the serpent mentioned in Genesis 3, who were killed and their spirits were left after the flood to roam the earth. Obviously the fallen angels who commingled with man God put in dungeons deep and have they somehow escaped? No, since they are there till the judgement of the great day.
But perhaps that is not a standard traditional reformed belief.

Jude says the fallen angels are imprisoned till judgement day.
6 And the angels who did not keep their proper domain, but left their own abode, He has reserved in everlasting chains under darkness for the judgment of the great day; 7 as Sodom and Gomorrah, and the cities around them in a similar manner to these (angels who did not keep their proper domain) , having given themselves over to sexual immorality and gone after strange flesh, are set forth as an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.

 

[sdowney717]

Luke 10:18
And He said to them, “I saw Satan fall like lightning from heaven.

Satan is a fallen angel, yet not imprisoned as Satan did not do what the imprisoned angels did, there was a difference in their behavior.
Satan was evicted forcefully from heaven with his angels (not demons), not of his own choice. The angels who sinned in Genesis, made a different choice than Satan, otherwise Satan and his angels here would have been imprisoned same as them. Can you see that?

Revelation 12:7-10New King James Version (NKJV)
Satan Thrown Out of Heaven
7 And war broke out in heaven: Michael and his angels fought with the dragon; and the dragon and his angels fought, 8 but they did not prevail, nor was a place found for them in heaven any longer. 9 So the great dragon was cast out, that serpent of old, called the Devil and Satan, who deceives the whole world; he was cast to the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

10 Then I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, “Now salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of His Christ have come, for the accuser of our brethren, who accused them before our God day and night, has been cast down.