Demon OR Fallen Angel?????

[lamblion]

It presents a problem because Lamblion has been suggesting that the demons can't be fallen angels because they seek a body to inhabit. He questions why should a being who is as powerful as Satan and his cohorts want to do such a thing.

But the scripture teaches that although Satan himself may not be looking to inhabit someone 24/7, it is something he does. (notably the anti-christ) Therefore Lamblion's argument loses something of it's potency.

The other side that genez pointed out is that the Lord Himself referred to these creatures as men. This is significant because angels are spirits but men are souls and being souls they are handed over to the same judgements as men. Men die, spirits don't. When the Nephilim died they went to Sheol as all men did.

If I might be permitted to put my thoughts down for the sake of discussion? I will appreciate any corrections.

We know the Nephilim will not be resurrected. Why? It seems to me the reason is because the resurrection is of the physical or material. Our soul is immaterial. God saves souls but He resurrects our bodies.

When we look into scripture regarding the Nephilim we see the most notable differences appear to lie in the physical realm. ie great strength, abnormal height, extra digits etc. It seems to my mind this is why they will not be resurrected because they have inherited physical characteristics that never came from the elements of the earth (at least in part) as God intended. (ie compare the way God formed Adam's body from the earth)

All men (Nephilim included) are sinners, born spiritually dead (ie we have no spiritual life). It would make no sense on God's part to allow these souls to roam freely why all others had to be consigned to Sheol while they waited the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ. How can He be trusted if He showed this sort of inconsistency?

As far as being "normal men"? Who among us is normal? Apart from Adam and Eve's pre-fall state and with the birth of Jesus Christ, no man has been "normal". For normalcy would be to be born spritually alive, not dead as we all are.

peace

Were does it say that satan himself will possess the body of the anti-Christ? Or were if anywere else does it mention of satan literally entering the body of any man?

Show me.

 

[LilGeorgiaPeach81]

I think Satan, retaining the power of a fallen angel, could create demons pretty much as needed to suit his evil plans!

 

[sawdust]

Were does it say that satan himself will possess the body of the anti-Christ? Or were if anywere else does it mention of satan literally entering the body of any man?

Show me.

Then Satan entered Judas, called Iscariot, one of the Twelve. Lk.22:3

As soon as Judas took the bread, Satan entered into him. Jn.13:27

And I saw a beast coming out of the sea. He had ten horns and seven heads, with ten crowns on his horns, and on each head a blasphemous name. The beast I saw resembled a leopard, but had feet like those of a bear and a mouth like that of a lion. The dragon gave the beast his power and his throne and great authority. Rev.13:2

I am happy to concede that these verses may not necessarily mean a literal bodily habitation but one has to wonder if Satan has retained the complete power and authority that he originally had at his beginning, why is he bothering himself with the use of men in this manner.

We are talking of a creature who is a meglomaniac in the highest. The last thing one like him will want to do is share or give his power to another unless he has no other choice.

You asked in an earlier post over whom did these angelic beings rule? Why not the answer be the same as what Adam was given to rule, ie the earth and the creatures thereof. Adam was never given rule over other men for all souls belong to God. He alone has the right to rule over men.

Is this why we see dinosaurs from a prehistoric creation and their destruction? Are they the result of genetic tinkering by fallen angels in their "zeal" for bigger, better and bolder things? I'm only conjecturing here but it fits the mindset of a meglomaniac who sees himself above all else. We see the same mindset reflected in the ancient kings and pharohs. Everything has to be big and stand out from the crowd to be "fitting" for them.

As best as I can see from the arguments you have presented you seem to be suggesting that nothing changed for Lucifer in respect to his power and authority once he fell. Yet it completely changed Adam and caused the Lord to hand over even the natural creation (which had done nothing wrong) to vanity. Why should nothing go unchanged for Lucifer?

And I'm still not clear just who or what you think the demons are. ????

Maybe only the "lesser" fallen angels are allowed to inhabit the bodies of men and angels like Lucifer are not. What is clear to my mind is nowhere in the scripture is Satan allowed to do his work in his "own body". He is forever doing it through others, be that a beast of the field (as in the garden) or men (as in the Revelation passage above).

I don't pretend to know the answers but I do appreciate you starting this thread and for the responses of the other posters.

peace

 

[Nadiine]

I've been reading some of these posts & the back & forths with the scriptures -- can I ask this question:

What knowing the answer to this q. will change or produce?

Does this cause us to 'battle' our enemy any differently than we already do (laid out clearly by God's word)?

What exactly would change if we came up with a definitive answer to this issue?

 

[lamblion]

Then Satan entered Judas, called Iscariot, one of the Twelve. Lk.22:3

As soon as Judas took the bread, Satan entered into him. Jn.13:27

And I saw a beast coming out of the sea. He had ten horns and seven heads, with ten crowns on his horns, and on each head a blasphemous name. The beast I saw resembled a leopard, but had feet like those of a bear and a mouth like that of a lion. The dragon gave the beast his power and his throne and great authority. Rev.13:2

I am happy to concede that these verses may not necessarily mean a literal bodily habitation but one has to wonder if Satan has retained the complete power and authority that he originally had at his beginning, why is he bothering himself with the use of men in this manner.

We are talking of a creature who is a meglomaniac in the highest. The last thing one like him will want to do is share or give his power to another unless he has no other choice.

You asked in an earlier post over whom did these angelic beings rule? Why not the answer be the same as what Adam was given to rule, ie the earth and the creatures thereof. Adam was never given rule over other men for all souls belong to God. He alone has the right to rule over men.

Is this why we see dinosaurs from a prehistoric creation and their destruction? Are they the result of genetic tinkering by fallen angels in their "zeal" for bigger, better and bolder things? I'm only conjecturing here but it fits the mindset of a meglomaniac who sees himself above all else. We see the same mindset reflected in the ancient kings and pharohs. Everything has to be big and stand out from the crowd to be "fitting" for them.

As best as I can see from the arguments you have presented you seem to be suggesting that nothing changed for Lucifer in respect to his power and authority once he fell. Yet it completely changed Adam and caused the Lord to hand over even the natural creation (which had done nothing wrong) to vanity. Why should nothing go unchanged for Lucifer?

And I'm still not clear just who or what you think the demons are. ????

Maybe only the "lesser" fallen angels are allowed to inhabit the bodies of men and angels like Lucifer are not. What is clear to my mind is nowhere in the scripture is Satan allowed to do his work in his "own body". He is forever doing it through others, be that a beast of the field (as in the garden) or men (as in the Revelation passage above).

I don't pretend to know the answers but I do appreciate you starting this thread and for the responses of the other posters.

peace

I like your response, and in fact I think it's one of the best ones I have recieved so far in this thread. Well Lets look into why satan would want to share his power with a creature even lower than himself. Man has been satans direct attack ever since Adam. He and his minions are so involved with the persuit of humanity that scripture says that satan is constantally pionting out our sins unto the Father. Why? Why is satan so concerned about man and his exsistance? Why did he motivate the fallen angels to enter into the daughters of men and destroy the line of the human race by creating half men half angelic beings? Why is He so envolved with our destuction before God?

It's all tied to the other question that you proposed. "If Adam fell and Lost all authority and power, then did satan recieve the same when he fell?

We must ask the question- If satan and the fallen angels fell and were sentence to the Lake of Fire as scriptures says, then why are they not there? When Adam fell immediately his authority was given to satan and his judgment was sentence, which was spiritual death. Satan on the other hand was sentence to the Lake of Fire, what stopped God from executing His judgment? Satan appealled God's judgment. Satan was the first creature to go against God's perfect will in His perfect environment, and when he fell he created an entire new philosiphy of life in oppostion to the plan of God. He is the author of sin, thus making him the author of death, and in this death entered into God's perfect creation. Satan attack God's Love and most likely His omniscience, because God never stopped satan in his persuit to rebell. God had to prove His love and omniscience unto satan and even the elite angels by allowing satan to take the path he took in bringing evil into exsistance. This is why Ephesians-3:10 states " To the intent that now unto the principalities and powers(angels) in heavenly places might be known by the church the manifold wisdom of God." God had to prove unto the angels that He is Love and all knowing, and has had a plan even from the beginning of creation, and this plan began with the creation of man. Through man came the God-man- Jesus Christ who destoryed the works of satan, and proved that God has always been in control. Even in spite of all the destuction that satan promoted, Jesus christ still came and saved creation from the wrath of God, and even established a new creation that is one with the essence of the All Mighty, namely the Church(Eph-3:10)

who are demons? I am one to believe in other life, in seeing the vast diverse universe that God created. I don't see the God that I study in creating such a universe only for it to be unihabiated, and the only planet to have life is the tiny planet earth alone. Though earth is a direct planet for the work of God, I don't see it to be alone within His entire plan. Angels were created long before man, in fact the earth alone is said to be roughly 6 billion years old. Man is only 6 thousand accoring to Adam, so what was before humanity? was earth viod of life until man came? It just wouldn't make sense. What ever angels rule was here, and may'be is still here, before man ever exsisted, and this rulership is also given unto those angels that fell and followed satan in the rebellion. When they fell what ever they ruled fell along with them, and the path satan took is the same path these creatures took as well. I believe that there was a war that took place in the physical realm when these creatures fell with the fallen angels, and this war caused the earth to be in the state that is presented in Genesis-1:2. When some of these creatures were destoyed there souls had do were do go, seeing that hell had not yet been created and the Lake of Fire was only prepared for satan and the angels. These souls are allowed to rome free, but they have lost their bodies and they seek embodiment. They follow satan and the fallen angels in persuit of possessing bodies that they may control, which the majority of takes place with humanity.

 

[Nadiine]

We must ask the question- If satan and the fallen angels fell and were sentence to the Lake of Fire as scriptures says, then why are they not there? When Adam fell emedietly his authority was given to satan and his judgment was sentence, which was spiritual death. Satan on the other hand was sentence to the Lake of Fire, what stopped God from executing His judgment?

God USES Satan for His glory & purposes... In the book of Kings, God sends out a lying spirit to do His bidding w/ a king.
Satan is allowed to work against God until God decides the time is up.

Some demons (which the bible says are fallen angels) are in chains, reserved for some end times events too.

Satan will be chained for 1000 years (Millenium) & then let back out to influence man again.

No doubt, that would prove that even when man lives in utter peace & bliss, his true nature is to rebel no matter how "perfect" things were for him (which Adam & Eve proved imo).

 

[GenemZ]

Man has been satans direct attack ever since Adam. He and his minions are so involved with the persuit of humanity that scripture says that satan is constantally pionting out our sins unto the Father. Why?

With great cause! God is getting Satan to admit that God's judgment of the fallen angels was correct. By Satan condemning the believer to God? Satan is condemning his own nature that God condemned. With one big difference!

Man was born a sinner. We did not choose to be sinners.

Satan chose to become evil.

Jesus paid for our sins because we had no say in being fallen. So, with our sins paid for. No matter what Satan enters into the court of heaven, Jesus is always our advocate, and the blood keeps us from the condemnation Satan points our way.

Yet? Why does God allow Satan to even speak to Him? To condemn his children? God in his omniscience does not need Satan's help in knowing our sins.

Matthew 7:1 niv​

"Do not judge, or you too will be judged. For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you. "​

Satan's sins have not been paid for. He was not created a sinner, but chose to become one. And, chose to remain as one! He refused to repent! So?

So, when he condemns us to the Father? God laughs, as Satan unwittingly becomes his own judge and executioner! For he is the father of the very things he condemns in us. In doing so, he agrees with God that he deserves to be judged.

Neat trick! God had to keep it a secret for a long time until God made his point with the dense arrogance of Satan which lives in denial of the truth. So? God got Satan to condemn himself by allowing Satan to condemn in us the very thing he is!

Why is satan so concerned about man and his exsistance? Why did he motivate the fallen angels to enter into the daughters of men and destroy the line of the human race by creating half men half angelic beings?

Satan did not motivate fallen angels to do this. Fallen angels can not take on physical form. Nor can they do anything that God does not allow for. It was the Sons of God (certain angels) who did this. For the elect angels were capable of manifesting themslves physically in time and space. They also were allowed freedom of choice at that point. They were free to fall.

Satan motivated it by noticing how aroused certain angels had become at the sight of these beautiful women. Angels were created only a little higher than man physically. They have great spiritual powers at their disposal, but physically they are very similar.

Satan most likely reasoned to these angels who were being aroused, that if they can corrupt the human gene pool, that they would destroy the chances of the promised Messiah who had to come as a man. If they could do that? God would have to let all the beloved fallen angels back into the kingdom, and the judgement would have to be called off. They bit. They wanted their beloeved Satan back in the family, and they just were itching for an excuse to get at these beautiful women of men.

That is why Jesus had to preach to these angels who tried this stunt after Jesus went under the earth durinh his three days of physical death.

1 Peter 3:18-20 (New International Version)​

" For Christ died for sins once for all, the righteous for the unrighteous, to bring you to God. He was put to death in the body but made alive by the Spirit, through whom also he went and preached to the spirits in prison who disobeyed long ago when God waited patiently in the days of Noah while the ark was being built. In it only a few people, eight in all, were saved through water."​

These angels were waiting in prison with the hope that their beloved Satan in his genius would find a way to win, and get them out of there. Jesus came to announce to them that Satan had failed. That God's promised Messiah had come by the seed of a woman... That he appeared as a man... Died for the sins of the world... And, that all hope of being set free by Satan's schemes were now over.

Why is He so envolved with our destuction before God?

God is deceiving the deceiver! He is allowing Satan to end up tying a rope around his own neck by condemning himself in what he condemns in believers. That is why our flesh was crucified with Christ on the Cross! For what Satan condemns now, God declares as being dead in Christ. God sees us in a resurrection body of perfection. Satan is condemning a dead man. Not the real you and I. It shocked me when I first learned of this. Today it makes me chuckle to think how Satan's egomaniacal pride is being slaughtered by God's sense of humour in the whole matter. God can be clever with the clever, you know. I just love it!

It's all tied to the other question that you proposed. "If Adam fell and Lost all authority and power, then did satan recieve the same when he fell?

Satan lost dominion over the old creation. What he wanted to do was to win back his dominion by getting Adam to fall. Ever since then, Satan has been the god of this world. Up until Adam's fall, Satan had lost his power to reign on earth.

We must ask the question- If satan and the fallen angels fell and were sentence to the Lake of Fire as scriptures says, then why are they not there?

That can be answered. But it would be quite lengthy. I just wrote eight pages on the subject. If I could figure out how to post it here, I would.

When Adam fell immediately his authority was given to satan and his judgment was sentence, which was spiritual death. Satan on the other hand was sentence to the Lake of Fire, what stopped God from executing His judgment?

Satan (the shrewd attorney) is now trying to appeal his case before the Supreme Court of Heaven. That is why we have been called to be witnesses for Christ.

Satan appealled God's judgment. Satan was the first creature to go against God's perfect will in His perfect environment, and when he fell he created an entire new philosiphy of life in oppostion to the plan of God. He is the author of sin, thus making him the author of death, and in this death entered into God's perfect creation.

That is why God both redeemed man by the Cross, and allows Satan to condemn man. God is getting Satan to condemn the very essence of what he stands for. And, that is why when God saves us we can not lose our salvation. For he must allow for man to sin if he so chooses. For if man could never sin after he was saved? Satan would have nothing to condemn himself with. Brilliant plan, LORD! Eternally brilliant!

In Christ, GeneZ​

​

 

[Nadiine]

This has always been a huge debate, and still is today. What are demons, and were did they come from? Scripture is quite silent when considering this topic, but with deep study there is and answer. Many have made the common error in labeling demons as fallen angels, but if we would only take the time and use scripture as a whole, we would see that this can not be the case. I really would like others to understand the distinction between fallen angels and demons, because with it we began to understand and open the door for knowlege of the deep things of God. One simple statement can not be done here in considering this vast statement, but by the end of this thread we will know the difference between demons and fallen angels.

I'm still wondering what changes if this is the case? I'm all for discussion & learning, I just don't understand why the distinction is so important?

Exactly what changes by the knowledge of them being demons rather than fallen angels? Are they fought with differently or what?

Also, I haven't seen any proof in the threads I read that they were demons rather than fallen angels; did someone have biblical proof of this? If so, can it be reposted?

If they aren't fallen angels, did God create these separately or what?

 

[GenemZ]

I'm still wondering what changes if this is the case? I'm all for discussion & learning, I just don't understand why the distinction is so important?

Exactly what changes by the knowledge of them being demons rather than fallen angels? Are they fought with differently or what?

Also, I haven't seen any proof in the threads I read that they were demons rather than fallen angels; did someone have biblical proof of this? If so, can it be reposted?

If they aren't fallen angels, did God create these separately or what?

Hello.....

What one reason for the debate is that an extra Biblical writing called the Book of Enoch, decribes the demons as being the spirits born of the reproduction between angels and men in Genesis 6.

The Book of Enoch appears to have been quoted from by the Apostles in certain passages. So, some here assume that the Book of Enoch passes the test of inerrancy.

Problem is. The reasons for passages that do appear to be quoting from the Book of Enoch were not credited to this writing. For all we know, the Book of Enoch could have been the result of a man compiling truths passed down by oral tradition from the time of the flood, and this writer simply added his own opinions in what was commonly accepted in the days of the Apostles. For, the Apostles make such statements as if it were common knowledge in their day.

As for your question concerning man? It was mentioned in an earlier post. God in Genesis 6, calls the hybrid offspring between angels and women, "man."

Genesis 6:1-5 New American Standard Bible
"Now it came about, when men began to multiply on the face of the land, and daughters were born to them,

that the sons of God saw that the daughters of men were beautiful; and they took wives for themselves, whomever they chose.

Then the LORD said, "My Spirit shall not strive with man forever, because he also is flesh; nevertheless his days shall be one hundred and twenty years."

The Nephilim were on the earth in those days, and also afterward, when the sons of God came in to the daughters of men, and they bore children to them. Those were the mighty men who were of old, men of renown.
Then the LORD saw that the wickedness of man was great on the earth, and that every intent of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually."
​

We are called "man" because we have a soul. Angels are called angels, because they have a spirit.

The body is not what determines one to be a man. Its the soul.

Take a man and put him on steroids, or graft in certain genes of an ape. Because he has a soul, he is still a man in his soul. Maybe a strange man. But, a man none the less.


It was the soul that was created in God's image. The body for that soul to live in, was produced for the soul after the soul was already created, in Genesis 1:27.

"God created man in His own image, in the image of God He created him; male and female He created them. "

​

The Hebrew word used here for 'create' is 'BARA.' When used in the action of God, it is an unusual word which is often times is used to imply creating 'out from nothing.' This creation called 'man' was created (BARA) by God, and called "MAN."

In the next chapter we do not see 'BARA' being used for Adam's body. For the body for the soul to live in, was not created 'out from nothing.'

It was rather, 'formed and molded' (YATSAR) from the already existing elements of the earth. God then breathed the previously created soul into that body, and it became a soul living (in time and space).

In Genesis 6 angels and women may have produced a new type of body. But what lived in that body were souls, not spirits. For God refers to this hybrid offspring as "man." Man is soul. Angel is spirit.

That! Is the Scriptural clue, that some miss. Those who see the offspring as being spirits. later to be called demons. But, God would have not called them 'man' if that were the case.

A man and woman may sexually reproduce a body. But, its God who creates the soul for that body. That is why God is our true Father.

Now, if God had imputed spirits to those hybrid bodies in Genesis 6? He would have not called what was produced, 'MAN."

If those who propose that demons are the spirits of those who died in the flood? Then they would need to be called, 'unclean souls.' That is where they err.

We should no more take the Book of Enoch as being inerrant than we do the the Apocrypha. Its helpful in sections to gain insight of the thinking of its day it was written. But, it was commentary. Not direct revelation. In the past I have found errors in the book that contradicted Scripture, and posted it in this forum quite some time ago.

BOE was not a direct revelation from God. Yet, it is helpful. For it did record legitimate insights which were known in its day.

Grace and peace, GeneZ
​

 

[Jimlarmore]

Hi Genez,
I was just wondering if you had a scriptural support that tells us that demons cannot take on the form of a human being.

Thanks in advance for your response

God Bless
Jim Larmore

 

[LilGeorgiaPeach81]

I'm still wondering what changes if this is the case? I'm all for discussion & learning, I just don't understand why the distinction is so important?

Exactly what changes by the knowledge of them being demons rather than fallen angels? Are they fought with differently or what?

Also, I haven't seen any proof in the threads I read that they were demons rather than fallen angels; did someone have biblical proof of this? If so, can it be reposted?

If they aren't fallen angels, did God create these separately or what?

I think I said above, and it is pretty clear to me, that Satan surely has the power to create demons. He can create nothing good, but doubtless has the power to create a horde of evil.

 

[Nadiine]

I think I said above, and it is pretty clear to me, that Satan surely has the power to create demons. He can create nothing good, but doubtless has the power to create a horde of evil.

Oh ok, I hadn't read that before, maybe I missed it sorry.

Well, it's a far fetched theory. I mean, we don't see Satan creating life in any scriptures. God created life/spirits in Genesis 1.

God brings life. Does Satan really have that amount of power when God tells Satan how far he can go in harming Job?

& how many would he be making? He's had 6000 years... he could make hordes & hordes more of them continually - I don't know how that would work with ratios of God's heavenly hosts.?

I dunno - it makes sense to me that they're fallen angels who rebelled. Even tho I don't understand what it would change if they weren't.

 

[sawdust]

I like your response, and in fact I think it's one of the best ones I have recieved so far in this thread. Well Lets look into why satan would want to share his power with a creature even lower than himself. Man has been satans direct attack ever since Adam. He and his minions are so involved with the persuit of humanity that scripture says that satan is constantally pionting out our sins unto the Father. Why? Why is satan so concerned about man and his exsistance? Why did he motivate the fallen angels to enter into the daughters of men and destroy the line of the human race by creating half men half angelic beings? Why is He so envolved with our destuction before God?

Why is he involved? I think genez answered that better than I could. Satan doesn't destroy us, we destroy ourselves. We come into this world spiritually dead. We're lost and without hope before we even begin living. If it were not for the Lord? "Let humanity now say ... if not for the Lord....!!!!!"

Satan doesn't have to lift a finger if his only concern was to see us destroyed.

We must ask the question- If satan and the fallen angels fell and were sentence to the Lake of Fire as scriptures says, then why are they not there?

I don't have eight pages to explain this which, might mean I should say nothing but when I read what you said above the first thought that came to my mind is ... "answers easy... the same reason Adam didn't die in the day (ie that very day) he ate from the tree ... God is merciful."

In the case of Satan not going straight to the lake of fire, I believe it was because the Lord had mercy on the Elect angels just as He had mercy on those He knew would come to believe in Him by not sentencing Adam to the full and final death that was fitting for his sin. Eventually there would be one to "die in the day" and He did it willingly, with all the love of God in His heart and soul. Jesus paid the price and showed that when the Lord speaks, He means what He says and says what He means.

Satan on the other hand was sentence to the Lake of Fire, what stopped God from executing His judgment? Satan appealled God's judgment.

To be honest, although I have no direct evidence (from scripture), it is my considered opinion that even if Satan had not even thought about appealing his sentence, the Lord still would not have thrown him into the lake of fire. I think this for two reasons. The first because of what I said above regarding the Lord being merciful. The other is because, what creature could ever persuade the Lord to do anything that He had not already determined to do Himself?

God had to prove unto the angels that He is Love and all knowing, and has had a plan even from the beginning of creation, and this plan began with the creation of man.

Technically, God doesn't have to prove anything. He is God, who can argue with Him and win? Yet He has chosen to reveal Himself and make Himself known and that began long before the creation of anything.

"In the beginning was the Word!"

God doesn't need words to communicate with Himself. He is the Word. He is the Word for our sakes, that is, for the sake of all creation but especially men for it is with words we communicate. Not sure about angels in this respect but the OT talks about the angel of the Lord so the Lord certainly wanted to make Himself known to angels as well.

who are demons? I am one to believe in other life, in seeing the vast diverse universe that God created. I don't see the God that I study in creating such a universe only for it to be unihabiated, and the only planet to have life is the tiny planet earth alone. Though earth is a direct planet for the work of God, I don't see it to be alone within His entire plan. Angels were created long before man, in fact the earth alone is said to be roughly 6 billion years old. Man is only 6 thousand accoring to Adam, so what was before humanity? was earth viod of life until man came? It just wouldn't make sense. What ever angels rule was here, and may'be is still here, before man ever exsisted, and this rulership is also given unto those angels that fell and followed satan in the rebellion. When they fell what ever they ruled fell along with them, and the path satan took is the same path these creatures took as well. I believe that there was a war that took place in the physical realm when these creatures fell with the fallen angels, and this war caused the earth to be in the state that is presented in Genesis-1:2. When some of these creatures were destoyed there souls had do were do go, seeing that hell had not yet been created and the Lake of Fire was only prepared for satan and the angels. These souls are allowed to rome free, but they have lost their bodies and they seek embodiment. They follow satan and the fallen angels in persuit of possessing bodies that they may control, which the majority of takes place with humanity.

Well I don't have a problem with the possibilty of God creating life throughout the universe prior to Adam stepping foot on this earth. But I do have a problem with God creating man prior to Genesis 1:26.

As far as I can see with what you are saying here is that "God created man, in His image and likeness" prior to "God creating man in His image and likeness". That does not compute.

Archaelogical evidence would seem to suggest there may well have been humanoid like creatures on this earth prior to God making "adam" (ie humanity). But "ha adam" (the man) did not appear until after God restored the earth from the destruction of Genesis 1:2.

We are shown in Genesis 1:26 the extent of Adam's authority, ie fish, birds, livestock and creatures that move along the ground. I don't believe there is any reason to think that any angel was given authority over any man at any time from the original beginning.

Who knows, maybe that lump of clay that the Lord used to mold Adam's body from had some bone fragments from one of those ancient humanoid animals and that's why we look like we do. ??? I don't know, I wasn't there. That's most probably one of my silly thoughts.

peace

 

[sawdust]

I think I said above, and it is pretty clear to me, that Satan surely has the power to create demons. He can create nothing good, but doubtless has the power to create a horde of evil.

God alone is the author of life. Satan has no pwer to create life.

The only thing Satan can create on his pat malone is a lie. He is very, very good at it.

Ooops, ... pat malone = on his own.

peace

 

[LilGeorgiaPeach81]

God alone is the author of life. Satan has no pwer to create life.

The only thing Satan can create on his pat malone is a lie. He is very, very good at it.

Ooops, ... pat malone = on his own.

peace

I've never really thought of demons as being alive! They're creatures of death and destruction, but I suppose they could be fallen angels also. It just doesn't seem that God could make so many angels that would be so defective! But I guess that's what happens when these creations have free will, and can decide to be jealous of God's love for Man above all other of His creations!

 

[CalvinistSamurai]

Here is a plethora of information. These are the notes my father took during his class on angelology at Moody Bible Institute with Dr C Fred Dickason. Dr Dickason is a well respected scholar on the subject of angels and in the area of demon posession, and he's written many books on the subject. I've also posted an outline I did on Satan, which I based on studies of various sources. The outlines are on a page I use for posting topics particular to a bible study I teach. The angelology posts are the newest ones.

http://www.xanga.com/CYC_YABS

Also, to LilGeorgiaPeach81:

I think I said above, and it is pretty clear to me, that Satan surely has the power to create demons. He can create nothing good, but doubtless has the power to create a horde of evil.

I have to say my jaw dropped when I read this. I'd like to see your supportive scripture that states that Satan can create anything, let alone other angels. The biggest thing I think Christians need to be wary of is ascribing too much power to Satan. His head is big enough, lets not add to it.

It just doesn't seem that God could make so many angels that would be so defective!

He didn't make them defective. They all serve His larger purpose, see Satan's part in Job. God used Satan in His purpose of glorifying Himself through Job.

But I guess that's what happens when these creations have free will,

Angels don't have free will in the way you are thinking of it. In the commonly used sence, 'free will' is the ability to do whatever, whenever. Angels can only do good, and can never do evil. Demons can only do evil, and can never do good. So therefore they have a very, very limited will.

can decide to be jealous of God's love for Man above all other of His creations!

Satan, being the first angel to fall, did not commit sin out of jealousy. His sin was specific to arrogance. The name 'Satan' is Hebrew for 'accuser.' He is so proud of himself that his personality is that of someone who finds purpose in finding fault in others. Also, in Isaiah 14, there is mentioned the 'king of Babylon.' I believe this to be a double meaning, both the King of Babylon proper and also Satan, due to the fact that this King is referred to as falling from heaven (14:12)and also that he is called the 'star of morning,' or 'day star.' The Hebrew word there is Helel, 'shining one,' and is a synonym for Fosforos in Greek, and Lucifer in Latin. Anyway, the King of Babylon is stated as saying:
And thou saidst in thy heart,
I will ascend into heaven,
I will exalt my throne above the stars of God;
and I will sit upon the mount of congregation, in the uttermost parts of the north;
I will ascend above the heights of the clouds;
I will make myself like the Most High.

His specific sin, I believe, was pride.

Shalom.

 

[GenemZ]

Hi Genez,
I was just wondering if you had a scriptural support that tells us that demons cannot take on the form of a human being.

Thanks in advance for your response

God Bless
Jim Larmore

This is what we do have.......

Hebrews 13:2 niv​

"Do not forget to entertain strangers, for by so doing some people have entertained angels without knowing it."​

God's angels can materialize.

Nowhere in Scripture does it say demons can. We only see demons seeking out physical bodies to possess. We also see demons resorting to idols as a meeting place between their paganized followers and themselves. If they could materialize they would never have to resort to idols as a demon magnet.

And, nowhere do we see God's angels possessing human bodies.

When Satan and his angels fell, they died to the physical world we live in. They died their first death. God will not allow them to present themselves physically to us who they are. Since Satan wanted to be like the Most High? God caused Satan and his angels to only be able to influence men as God influences men. Invisibly. Now, let's see if Satan is really up to the task. Can he equal God?

Most likely the Antichrist will be Satan possessed, just like Judas was. For just as God has his Christ, Satan will have his version of a christ. Once more, to allow Satan to prove himself God's equal as he claimed. God will allow that to allow Satan to make a fool of himself. To show Satan, God was right in saying Satan had no justification in cliaming to be able to be a replacement for God.

Grace and peace, GeneZ​

​

 

[CalvinistSamurai]

Most likely the Antichrist will be Satan possessed, just like Judas was. For just as God has his Christ, Satan will have his version of a christ. Once more, to allow Satan to prove himself God's equal as he claimed. God will allow that to allow Satan to make a fool of himself. To show Satan, God was right in saying Satan had no justification in cliaming to be able to be a replacement for God.

Not to disagree with you, but I think another thing to point out is Satan's inability to replicate what Christ did. Christ had the hypostatic union, but Satan is only able to possess. Also, Christ was able to resurrect.
Rev. 13:3 And I saw one of his heads as though it had been smitten unto death; and his death-stroke was healed: and the whole earth wondered after the beast;
Satan will only be able to mock what Christ did. He will probably suffer a massive injury, appear to die, then be healed. This as opposed to Christ, who truly died, then rose again.

The anti-christ will be only a shade of the power that is in the true Christ.

Shalom.

 

[GenemZ]

Not to disagree with you, but I think another thing to point out is Satan's inability to replicate what Christ did. Christ had the hypostatic union, but Satan is only able to possess. Also, Christ was able to resurrect.

Please read what I wrote, again? I said, he will have his version of a christ. His version. He will have a humanity to speak through as he pretends to be God over man.

The anti-christ will be only a shade of the power that is in the true Christ.

Correct. Yet, he will be allowed special powers to perform miracles. But, not as a hypostatic union. Though the humanity of the antichrist and Satan will be in agreement with how things should be.

Grace and peace, GeneZ
​

 

[Jimlarmore]

This is what we do have.......

Hebrews 13:2 niv​

"Do not forget to entertain strangers, for by so doing some people have entertained angels without knowing it."​

God's angels can materialize.

Nowhere in Scripture does it say demons can.

First off, thanks for your response to my question. I would have to say that if we get specific here this verse does not say that the angels being entertained are good or evil angels. I am having trouble finding anything in the Bible that says evil angels are limited more in this regard than good angels. You could be right about this.

We only see demons seeking out physical bodies to possess. We also see demons resorting to idols as a meeting place between their paganized followers and themselves. If they could materialize they would never have to resort to idols as a demon magnet.

Do you have a scripture on this?

Most likely the Antichrist will be Satan possessed, just like Judas was. For just as God has his Christ, Satan will have his version of a christ. Once more, to allow Satan to prove himself God's equal as he claimed. God will allow that to allow Satan to make a fool of himself. To show Satan, God was right in saying Satan had no justification in cliaming to be able to be a replacement for God.

What about the text in the Bible that says Satan would appear as an angel of light one day? What is a "Familiar Spirit?" in your opinion?

God bless you

Jim Larmore