Demoic Possession - Your Opinion

[Notedstrangeperson]

This is absolutely not true. For example, they are about to come out with a revised DSM around 2012 (they are now up to DSM-V now). This is the Big Book of all known Psychological disorders. The reason that it needs to be revised on a fairly regular basis is because new problems are always being found. One of particular interest is a new addiction that they have defined, namely an addiction to online communities (such as World of Warcraft or online forums... uh oh... ha ha).

A "new" symptom could just be a different expression of an older and recognised symptom.
For example, that WoW addiction you mentioned (LOOOOOOOL!) would not actually be a disorder in itself, it would be a different expression of a much older problem - addiction.

The way symptoms express themselves would naturally change over time. In the 14th century a schizophrenic might claim the horse was trying to talk to him. In the 21st century a schizophrenic might claim the TV is trying to send him messages. They are not two seperate symptoms, one is just an "upgraded" version.

Even if an entirely new, unheard of symptom did suddenly appear, it makes us wonder where it came from. Why did it suddenly pop up?

 

[BeforeTheFoundation]

it would be a different expression of a much older problem - addiction.

But you see, I believe Psychologists would disagree with you, it is a different and new disorder (granted very similar to others). Besides, online addiction was just one example. There are many different additions that are not simply different aspects of an older problem. For instance ADD and ADHD, which as stated above virtually all Psychologists would argue are fairly newly discovered disorders are very distinct.

In the 14th century a schizophrenic might claim the horse was trying to talk to him. In the 21st century a schizophrenic might claim the TV is trying to send him messages.

But these are the same symptom. I am not disputing that. Take my disorder for instance. As you point out, many (but not all) people with OCD are overly concerned with germs. Of course before Germ Theory, this would have been impossible. However, they would still have had the same symptom, just manifested in different ways (i.e. being concerned with soiled items or sticky substances etc.)

They are not two seperate symptoms, one is just an "upgraded" version.

Indeed.

Even if an entirely new, unheard of symptom did suddenly appear, it makes us wonder where it came from. Why did it suddenly pop up?

But this is precisely my point. They do not simply 'pop up'. We start to find correlations and natural reasons for things that already exist and therefore can make broad claims about the nature of disorders. Take ADD and ADHD again as an example. No one (at least that I am aware of) makes the claim that these disorders did not exist before they were defined. There were still people with these disorders, but they have more recently been 'discovered' and even more recently become treatable. The same is true of the broader medical community. Part of the reason why people in so-called 'developed' nations are living longer is because we have been able to refine our understanding of medicine and define 'new' diseases. Do you really think that there was no cancer before we discovered it? Of course there was, but now that we know about it, we can classify it and even take it to the next level: investigate different kinds of cancer. Of course some diseases (AIDS comes to mind) do truly pop up because of different factors altogether such as bacterial and viral mutation.

As another example, let us turn once again to OCD. OCD did not 'appear' when it was first defined. As noted above, most people think that before this disease was understood they were thought to be witches. Well, this very claim presupposes that the disorder existed, even before it was understood.

Now, there are mental disorders that do, in effect, 'pop up'. For instance, alcohol addiction would have been unknown before the discovery of alcohol. Online Community Addiction would have been unknown before the internet. Eating disorders (yes, contrary to popular belief they are psychological disorders. Some of the most misunderstood too.) would have been unknown in societies where everyone is malnurished to begin with. However, this does not mean that there would not have been a genetic predisposition in certain individuals towards these disorders. So even when they appear to have 'popped up' that doesn't mean that there would not have been people that essentially had them without even knowing it. For instance, you can 'be' an alcoholic (being genetically predisposed to alcoholism) without ever having tasted alcohol (hence why people born into a family of alcoholics are advised not to even experiement with alcohol). Therefore, it would be perfectly concievable for someone in a pre-alcohol society to have the genetic markers for alcoholism and yet never actually experience the ill effects.

Since these disorders do not simply 'pop up' but are the explanation of already percieved symptoms, why should we not assume that modern day 'demon' possessions will one day be explained just as simply?

 

[Notedstrangeperson]

But you see, I believe Psychologists would disagree with you (about online addtion), it is a different and new disorder (granted very similar to others).

How so?

Take ADD and ADHD again as an example. No one (at least that I am aware of) makes the claim that these disorders did not exist before they were defined. There were still people with these disorders, but they have more recently been 'discovered' and even more recently become treatable.

I see what you mean but as with many new disorders (such as ADHD) there is debate as to whether therapists are simply labelling something that isn't actually an illness. The little I known about ADHD - a mix of learning about the it and meeting people who supposedly have it - suggests that it's just a different way of learning, rather than a mental disorder.

I also get the feeling we attribute more to our genes than nessasary. I can understand why mentally ill people would do this (all to often they are told to "snap out of it" when they can't) but when we say our genes are responsible for criminal behaviour, we tend not to support it - for obvious reasons.
I mentioned earlier than in order to confirm whether possession exists or not we would have to find someone with the 'condition', but in order to do that we have to entertain the notion that it exists. The same goes for most 'new' disorders. Admittedly there is a touch of circular logic about it, which might explain why some disorders no longer exist.


We seems to be going round in circles a little, so I should point out something different: I think most people have an in-built radar which is able to distinguish evil from odd or even criminal behaviour.
For example, hearing a story about a man-eating tiger doesn't produce the same sense of disgust as hearing a story about a serial killer. This is because with the tiger there is "evil" involved.
Presumably when dealing with demonic possession, to some degree our radar will be able to sense the evil, as oppose to dealing with someone who is acting strangely.

 

[La vérité]

The problem may be that many Psychiatrists suffer from OCCD ( Obsessive Compulsive Certainty Disorder ). What if things such as Schizophrenia are not a mental illness at all.

If I were Satan, what would be a threat to me. Those who can tap into a bigger truth would be a threat. If they shared that truth with the masses, I would be put out of business. All my tricks would be revealed.

Place a primitive monkey in front of a mirror and it will think it is looking at another monkey. Place a Chimpanzee in front of a mirror, and it sees itself and starts examining its teeth, gums, nose, etc. Therefore the chimp can see what the other monkey can not, just as we can see things that the chimp can not.

Picture a comedy movie involving chimps and humans. The chimps are busy laughing at the human who are always talking about things that are not really there. To the chimps it is obvious that the humans are experiencing delusions and hallucinations for the humans constantly claim to be seeing things that the chimps clearly do not see. Next you see the chimps in the lab experimenting with different drugs to apply to those overly active human brains. Before you know it, the chimps have successfully reduced to brain activity suffice enough such that the humans are swinging in the trees and eating bananas just as they should be.

Now imagine if 1% of the human population has taken the next step. They see what you do not. They are even more in-touch with reality than are you. They are quite sane indeed. But they are a threat to Satan.

What would Satan do? He would toy with them every which way and set them up to appear to be out to lunch in a big big way. Once done, he can even use these people to hide his secrets better than before. He can hand secrets to them and if they speak of them, no one believes a single word of truth that they have spoken. This rejection has been going on ever since the title " Schizophrenic " was stamped on their forehead. And so the actual truth is now rejected by the masses even better than before, for as far as they are concerned the truth came out of the mouth of a crazy person.

The world around us moves slowly, but our brain operates quickly. If the world around us moved as quickly as the mind, we would be lost in an instant since we would have no stable frame of reference.

If one were to watch a movie, and ones mind was made extra active by Satan, a third person could be brought into the picture. As I said, a reference is required. When watching a movie one responds to it in the normal manner and so the activity of the mind is of normal. However, if the brain activity is accelerated, this extra activity brings a third party into the picture.

1) The Movie. 2) The Person. 3) The Communication with another.

This then strengthens the appearance of " a crazy person " if this occurrence is reported to others. After that Satan would probably keep these people alive. What is wrong with that you might say. Satan is a nasty S.O.B. and so he would want to torture these people, and do so to such a magnitude that under normal circumstances this would kill them quickly indeed. The torture could go perhaps as high as 4,500 times worse than anything that occurred during the German Holocaust.

Therefore if they tried to commit suicide, it would be to improve the situation at least 4,500 times. Yet to the others, who live a happy life, it seems like the act of a crazy person, since one would have to be crazy to jump from highs of life down to the depth of death. Once again Satan would have successfully buried truths of a horrendous scale.

These poor victims would sit in front of their Psychiatrists with a stone faced look, realizing that they are caught in a trap of sheer hell, yet no one believes a single word they say about it. Satan and his followers laugh and laugh as they butcher more and more millions of innocent people.

All of this would be occurring in a day when minds are so sleepy that they might read this and say " What's he saying " " I don't know " and then just forget about it even though it could be 4,500 times worse than the German Holocaust, and could also lead to an outcome that is infinitely worse in the long run.

It is most unfortunate that " Different " throws someone into the defective category.

There was a fellow whose parents were told that he was is a slow learner, a backward person, a person that clearly had no academic future to look forward to, and no doubt he was a future high school drop out. But eventually this so called slow backward academic outcast proved them all to be wrong. His name was Albert Einstein. He was more interested in " understanding " than simply being a knowledgeable person. This was not normal. This was different.

Then there is diplomatic immunity.

Martha Beall Mitchell, the wife of John Mitchell, Attorney-General in the Nixon administration, alleged that White House officials were engaged in illegal activities. Her claims were immediately attributed to a clear cut case of mental illness. However, lucky for her the relevant facts of the Watergate scandal vindicated her. Her severe mental illness was instantly cured by the Watergate tapes.

Today this is known as the " Martha Mitchell Effect " - Truth mistakenly diagnosed as a delusion. It occurs when a claim made by a patient, is mistakenly diagnosed by a Psychiatrist as a delusion. In such a case, the claim is later clearly proven to be quite True.

Logically Translated - The Psychiatrist is delusional and therefore can not recognize the difference between Truth and Delusion. However, thanks to his diplomatic immunity, the Psychiatrist is not considered to be mentally ill. Apparently this can only happen to " Patients ".

Anyone who is not of the norm, is immediately pushed aside because " They are not one of us.". Truth is ignored as much as possible thanks to having placed group consensus as first priority.

Thus we are on shaky grounds.

Constantly we hear about the evil Satan, but little is mentioned about his evil acts.
　
　
　

 

[BeforeTheFoundation]

I see what you mean but as with many new disorders (such as ADHD) there is debate as to whether therapists are simply labelling something that isn't actually an illness. The little I known about ADHD - a mix of learning about the it and meeting people who supposedly have it - suggests that it's just a different way of learning, rather than a mental disorder.

Don't take this the wrong way, but your experiences with a few people and a few people that disagree with the scholarly concensus does not compare to the learning of a collection of the greatest psychological minds ever. Of course this does not mean that ADD and ADHD are not invoked too often but they are real disorders.

criminal behaviour, we tend not to support it - for obvious reasons.

I never claimed that we could attribute criminal activity to genes.

The problem may be that many Psychiatrists suffer from OCCD ( Obsessive Compulsive Certainty Disorder ).

Ok, so I have to admit. As someone that suffers from the genuine, bonafide, very real mental disorder of real OCD, I find this pun to be ever so slightly offensive.

What if things such as Schizophrenia are not a mental illness at all...


Now imagine if 1% of the human population has taken the next step. They see what you do not. They are even more in-touch with reality than are you.

Again, while I don't have Schizophrenia, I do have another illness, one that occupies a large part of my time every single day.And at the risk of sounding all "woe is me!" this illness almost ruined my life on more than one occasion. I spend an inordinate amount of time dealing with OCD when I could be doing other things. I miss opportunities that otherwise would be available. I can assure you with utmost confidence, I am not 'tapped into' a higher reality than everyone else. Besides, it is a fallacy to think that mental disorders are only recognizable by strange behavior as your post implies. My biology is actually quite different than yours. If you were to cut my head open (please don't ) you would find that my brain produces seretonin differently than yours does. It is physical, affecting the mental.

mouth of a crazy person.

At the risk of sounding like I am being mean to the new person (welcome to the board by the way please refrain from using words like 'crazy'. Again, there are people suffering from these disorders (or demon possessions if that is your fancy) reading these posts.

If one were to watch a movie, and ones mind was made extra active by Satan, a third person could be brought into the picture. As I said, a reference is required. When watching a movie one responds to it in the normal manner and so the activity of the mind is of normal. However, if the brain activity is accelerated, this extra activity brings a third party into the picture.

So, I don't really know what you are saying here, but mental illness does not (usually) accelerate the mind.

After that Satan would probably keep these people alive.

Are you claiming that Satan has the ability to give and/or preserve life?

he would want to torture these people, and do so to such a magnitude that under normal circumstances this would kill them quickly indeed.

What are you talking about?

The torture could go perhaps as high as 4,500 times worse than anything that occurred during the German Holocaust.

Where are you getting this number? Are you comparing mental illness to torture?

These poor victims would sit in front of their Psychiatrists with a stone faced look, realizing that they are caught in a trap of sheer hell, yet no one believes a single word they say about it.

This is an extremely stereotypical understanding of mental illness. While some sufferers certainly are 'stoney faced' not all are. Furthermore, how do you explain those that get better through medical means?

It is most unfortunate that " Different " throws someone into the defective category.

Again, this is an old understanding of mental illness. We are no longer labeled as defective. For instance, (not to brag but) despite my mental illness I attend a very fine college with an excellent academic scholarship, I am well respected amongst my peers and my professors for my academic skill and will likely be going off to a particularly nice graduate school next year and after that I have no doubts that I will be getting my doctorate. Today's world is no longer the world where 'different' = 'defective'. Indeed, some of my friends have even positted that my illness (OCD) has given me a particularly fine attention to detail which helps me academically (I wouldn't go this far, but the fact that it has been suggested goes to show that they do not consider me 'defective')

There was a fellow whose parents were told that he was is a slow learner, a backward person, a person that clearly had no academic future to look forward to, and no doubt he was a future high school drop out.

Einstein was not mentally ill and so therefore his case has very little relevance to this discussion.

Martha Beall Mitchell, the wife of John Mitchell, Attorney-General in the Nixon administration, alleged that White House officials were engaged in illegal activities. Her claims were immediately attributed to a clear cut case of mental illness. However, lucky for her the relevant facts of the Watergate scandal vindicated her. Her severe mental illness was instantly cured by the Watergate tapes.

Today this is known as the " Martha Mitchell Effect " - Truth mistakenly diagnosed as a delusion. It occurs when a claim made by a patient, is mistakenly diagnosed by a Psychiatrist as a delusion. In such a case, the claim is later clearly proven to be quite True.

Indeed, like any illness, mental illnesses can be falsely diagnosed. However, that does not mean that all or even a majority are.

Logically Translated - The Psychiatrist is delusional and therefore can not recognize the difference between Truth and Delusion.

This is a logical fallacy. It is a generalization from a case study. Surely, some Psychiatrists are delusional and do not realize that their patients are not. However, this is, by far, not the regual case.

Apparently this can only happen to " Patients ".

A good Psychiatrist will recognize that this is not true.

Thus we are on shaky grounds.

What you have to understand is that an awful lot of thought is put into this. New illnesses are not declared lightly, nor are diagnoses given arbitrarily. There is a pattern to these things. I act in a certain way that is similar to other people with OCD. When we are medically treated in a similar way, we react similarly (though to different extents). Furthermore, there are biological similarites between us all. This is a science, it is not arbitrary.



Oh, and sometimes I come across a little harsh when I am passionate about something. Since you are new to the board I just want to assure you that any harshness that you percieve in my post is accidental. Welcome to CF.

 

[La vérité]

A Psychiatrist is an expert, thus we have a problem.

An expert focuses upon a specific area. In doing so, not ALL is take into account, thus perfection is lost.

If this were not the case, then from this point of perfection one could extend outward into every other field, but this does not occur.

If one is certain about something, ones mind must surround it completely, otherwise its completeness is not understood.

To understand what " Schizophrenia " actually is you first need to be able to understand the basics of all of reality.

 

[k2svpete]

The same applies for those who go looking for demonic possession. If that is what they are looking for, that is what they will find.

 

[Notedstrangeperson]

To La vérité:

The first half of your post does make a relevent point - I mentioned earlier that people who are possessed aren't actually evil people themselves. They were (potentially) very good people. To perhaps these "enlightened" people are more likely to be targeted by demons, over normal people or even criminals.


To BeforeTheFoundation:

La verite also made a good point when he pointed out that psychiatrists are just as suseptable to mistakes and prejudice as mentally ill people. True, they are more educated, but this doesn't always remove their natural humans flaws.

We talked about ADHD earlier (and no, my personal life doesn't compare to scholarly research), I gave this example because there is still some controversy as to whether ot not it exists. There were many things which were once thought to be illnesses: Negro slaves who ran away from their masters were thought to have "disorders"; women who would rather spend money on themselves than on their male relatives were also though to have "disorders". Until the 1970s homosexuality was a mental illness.

The problem may be that many Psychiatrists suffer from OCCD ( Obsessive Compulsive Certainty Disorder ).

Ok, so I have to admit. As someone that suffers from the genuine, bonafide, very real mental disorder of real OCD, I find this pun to be ever so slightly offensive.

Have a sense of humour.

So, I don't really know what you are saying here, but mental illness does not (usually) accelerate the mind.

The idea that some mental illness can "Make our brains more effective" is actually an old idea. Some people with autism are mathmatical geniuses, some people with Bipolar disorder are wonderful artists and writers. There is even a school of thought than mental illness in minor forms is actually beneficial.

The same applies for those who go looking for demonic possession. If that is what they are looking for, that is what they will find.

True. Sometimes people are so desperate to find what they are looking for they will see evidence where there is none, and blind themselves to genuine evidence.

Sorry I keep repeating myself - but in order to confirm whether a "diagnosis" is correct, we have to find a person who has the disease and study them. But in order to find such a person we have to entertain the idea that such a disease actually does exist. This goes for both possession and medical science.

In order to get started with this catch-22 situation we need to have some idea of what we are looking for. To find a disease, we need to look at the symptoms. But who decides what the symptoms are before we conclude whether or not the disease actually exists?

 

[La vérité]

"DemoNic Possession"

When we talk about Demonic Possession, or " Demo-ic Possession " as written in this case, we must not just think in black and white.

Was " Demo-ic Possession " just a typo ?

Just a few years ago when I began to notice at Christmas time there were commercials on TV which showed Santa Claus standing there with one Playboy bunny in each arm, I was appalled.

Or when I scanned the web and found a Christian music site yet the males looked like thugs and the females dressed like prostitutes, I was appalled.

Is ones mind not also possessed if one does not see that this is not the work of healthy Christian minds.

Is ones mind not also possessed if one sees this as nothing serious at all.

Satan would be very happy indeed if we thought only in black and white, and so he would want to keep it that way. Now how does one do that. Point us toward extremism instead, which is basically one in the same.

He would have us say such things as " Spanking of our children is not to be allowed.". This in combination with of other forms of stupidity, will create children that have no sound foundation at all that is to be used to maintain a crystal clear understanding of the basics behind what is right, and what is wrong.

If on the other hand the basic understandings were firm, all the finer details can be learned during the remainder of the growing process.

Meanwhile Satan would be pushing mankind in the direction of wanting absolute freedom, such that there are to be no foundations left what so ever, such that he can then sweep us off our feet with ease.

Black and white thinking is dangerous. This is looking for an easy way. The attitude seems to be, if it requires hard work, then that is not the right way to go about it.

" Don't worry about anything ", some people say, " Christ will take care of everything ". In other words they say " Let's be lazy slobs and throw as much hell as possible upon Christ's shoulders ", " We are off the hook, for we were born as sinners ".

Then another possessed person will say " Not all people are like this ". In other words the subject will have been changed, thus giving Satan the two thumbs up once again. Or it will be something like " It's not that simple. " and so once again the subject will have been changed, thus giving Satan the two thumbs up again, and so on and so on and so on and ..........

Satan receives support in many ways indeed.

 

[Super Kal]

to answer the question, I most definitely do believe in the possibility of demonic possession.


What makes it different from natural mental illness (especially schizophrenia and multiple personality syndrome)?
you'd have to ask someone more versed in psychology and spiritual possession than me

Does being possessed mean the victim is not responsible for any crimes they committed?
to me, no... we have the choice to not let it in, but some of us choose to let it in. We are all responsible for our own actions, and just saying "a demon made me do it" is playing the blame game.

Why is demonic possession so rare?
I don't think they're rare at all... just because they aren't made public doesn't mean they don't happen. Ask yourself this: If you went through this, would you want to ever bring it up in a conversation like, "oh, hey, I was possessed by a demon once."

Do you know anyone who would want to talk about this as if it were a nonchalant experience?

I think within the Christian community, it's a very scary thing to talk about, and that's why you don't hear much talk about it anymore, because people are too afraid to bring up the subject

 

[La vérité]

You say one must have " let it in ".

This means that Satan, and or any demonic source, is kind enough to follow a set of rules.

It implies that if this external force is say 6 billion times more intense than that of a mere tiny human mind, it will kindly measure the force of such a tiny mind and keep its power levels a tad lower such that enough room for decision making is still there for the mere human to use, due to the human being left with enough power to fight back. How kind indeed.

It is somewhat like a man and a train. The man stands there with one hand on the front of the train, and when the train starts to move toward the man, and he can't stop it, it was his fault that the train ran over him.

The body has a limited power, as does the mind. The idea makes great movies though. Ah yes, I can see it in my mind right now, as Neo stops the bullets in mid air. It was his decision to do so. Ok the bullets are not as powerful as demonic forces like Satan, but it gets the point across.

 

[La vérité]

It is a pity that truths of enormous scale still can not be shared to resolve all problems and answer all questions.

" Consider a group of prisoners chained in a cave. Behind them, a bright fire flickers. Between the prisoners and the light of the fire, figures come and go, carrying cut-outs of trees and animals and hills. The prisoners, bound so that they face the back wall of their prison, can only see the moving shadows. For them, the shadows are reality. If one of the prisoners was set free, he could turn and see the fire. At first it would be too bright for him to look at it. But when his eyes grew used to the glow, he would walk beyond it to the mouth of the cave. There he would see the sunlight, and again the brightness would blind him. But eventually he would see the real trees and animals and hills --- reality. When he returned to the cave and tried to tell the others what he had seen, they would not believe him -- From Plato's " The Republic: ".

 

[Notedstrangeperson]

You say one must have " let it in ".

This means that Satan, and or any demonic source, is kind enough to follow a set of rules.

I do think that demonic possession (compared to natural mental illness) doesn't happen randomly or by accident.

But your point does bring up an interesting thought - why doesn't demon possession happen all the time? Why isn't it routine? Come to think about it, why not skip the humans altogether and wreck havoc by themselves?
I think this is because demons are not quite as powerful as we think. Apparently after they were expelled from heaven they lost their power. Demons are like parasites: they can only have strength through a human's body. By themselves they cannot do an awful lot.

 

[BeforeTheFoundation]

Do not take this the wrong way, but I think I am done on this thread. I have said my piece. I have provided support. I fully recognise that there is another point of view. But at this point I cannot imagine saying anything more that would be any more persuasive than that that I have already said. And there is no possible way that anyone could convince me either. So, I go forth to other things.

 

[bling]

This does not follow from this...



Mental illness like all illness and pain are caused from the Fall. Why invoke demons? What proof is there of this?



At least we can agree on this.

God is not like humans. If we knew some bad thing that was going to happen we would have the obligation (really privilege and honor) to try and stop the bad. The bad thing that is about to happen is actually for our benefit (Unfortunately we need these types of opportunities to experience/show/receive/extend/see Godly type Love). God does not prevent the bad from happening even though He hates what is about to happen (like Jesus going to the cross). There is good that can and should come out of every tragedy, but good people do not always cease these opportunities.
God allows satan to hurt the innocent at great pain to Him so we can obtain and grow Godly type Love, but God does not hurt innocent people directly, but does allow satan to do that.
You might want to read John 9:1-7 carefully and see if Jesus’ answer would not apply to all tragedies involving the innocent. Jesus does not blame Adam and Eve or sin or satan but it happens for the good that can come from it.
The “fall” is not the problem, but you and I are the cause. The Garden was a lousy place for us to fulfill our objective in this world and we can see that easily with Adam and Eve.

 

[bling]

Originally Posted by NotedStrangePerson
I disagree (I seem to disagree with alot of things . . .) because this suggests that God is either impotent or useless. That he either can't or won't help us. Ultimately God does help us, especially with possession, but we must always have the will to help others ourselves, otherwise what's the point?

What? This show tremendous Love on God’s part to allow the innocent to be hurt to provide opportunities for good people to accept and Grow Godly type Love (fulfill our objective). God and/or Jesus could have kept from being beaten and going to the cross, but that would not have helped us. Read John 9:1-7 and see Jesus’ answer to the cause for tragedies on the innocent.

 

[Lemmiwinks]

In Jesus' day demon possession was not uncommon.

I would assume that it was no more common 2000 years ago than it is today. It seems that when people like Jesus and Peter and Paul were around, the demons were unable to contain themselves or hide. They would scream out and attract attention to themselves.

Maybe the reason demons seem so rare today is because there aren't many people like Jesus or Paul walking the earth, and so they stay "under the radar"?

 

[Breckmin]

to answer the question, I most definitely do believe in the possibility of demonic possession.


What makes it different from natural mental illness (especially schizophrenia and multiple personality syndrome)?
you'd have to ask someone more versed in psychology and spiritual possession than me

Does being possessed mean the victim is not responsible for any crimes they committed?
to me, no... we have the choice to not let it in, but some of us choose to let it in. We are all responsible for our own actions, and just saying "a demon made me do it" is playing the blame game.

Why is demonic possession so rare?
I don't think they're rare at all... just because they aren't made public doesn't mean they don't happen. Ask yourself this: If you went through this, would you want to ever bring it up in a conversation like, "oh, hey, I was possessed by a demon once."

Do you know anyone who would want to talk about this as if it were a nonchalant experience?

I think within the Christian community, it's a very scary thing to talk about, and that's why you don't hear much talk about it anymore, because people are too afraid to bring up the subject

Yes. If you talk about how you were once demonized (or wrongfully
use the word possession) many people will immediately believe you are
mentally ill.

Assumptions + information = Conclusion.

It is an induction which continues to keep the deceptions regarding
spiritual warfare quite in tact.

Demonization is real. It happens quite often in born-again Christians.
These born-again Christians who struggle with demonization to this
capacity are going to be apprehensive about sharing their experiences
because everyone else who has not experienced such phenomenon
is going to think they are crazy.

It begs the question as to who is really living in reality...or who has
once lived in the reality of demonization and spiritual warfare.

 

[Breckmin]

how many people here believe in the possibility of being possessed by demons?

I do NOT believe in "demon possession" because of the connotations
of the English word possession. I DO believe in "power encounters."
This is where the unclean deceiving spirit manifests itself by taking
control of the individual (often a believer).

What makes it different from natural mental illness (especially schizophrenia and multiple personality syndrome)?

OCC and other biological mental illnesses create a weakness of mental
instability which is exploited by unclean deceiving spirits. This is why
the two are so often confused. Sometimes what the person is actually
going through is DEMONIC rather than just physical. You need to have
wisdom to identify the difference. Scrupulosity is a perfect example
of a believer who is being tormented by unclean demonic spirits in their
mind.... often with abtrusive thoughts and blasphemy which would never
be spoken out loud with their mouth.

Does being possesed mean the victim is not responsible for any crimes they committed?

Since I believe that there is sin involved which leads up to the actual
power encounter this is a difficult answer to communicate precisely.
The quick answer would be "no." Having a power encounter is often
the result of a lack of faith in the first place... not to mention the
disobedience that opened the door up to demonization. Also, "anxiety"
itself plays a very important role in demonization... in such cases you
have a "reaction" to anxiety which opens the door to demonization.

Why is demonic possession so rare?

Power encounters don't happen that often because most of the world
is not constantly engaged in spiritual warfare and has no knowledge
(or belief) in it. Demonization, however....is constant. We all struggle
with it to various degrees. I recommend Neil Anderson's book "The
Bondage Breaker" because it deals with this concept.

 

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I believe my oldest brother is demon possessed. When he was a child he was subjected to extreme physical and emotional abuse by both of his parents then as a young teenager he began playing with an Ouija Board. Years later he attended a seminar where the (athiestic) teacher ordered everyone to "empty" their minds and allow freedom to inhabit their minds. They were told the preconcieved notions of god must be eliminated so they can have true freedom from that slavery. After that expercience he went downhill rapidly. His wife divorced him and he lost or gave away everything, then "the voices" began telling him he is God and was perfect. He now has a webiste where he proclaims that he is God. He has accumulated two followers in the last 20 odd years; his girlfriend and a guy from Holland. He hates God and specifically told me to stop praying for him.

Benji