Democrats need to restore rule of law, quit select enforcement.

[Ana the Ist]

What you wrote is drivel. You make claims with no support. No, most of the murders or crimes that are politically motivated are by the far right.

And it was an attempt to overturn the election. It was violent and criminal and an absolute disgrace on the part of the Republicans that are minimizing it.
When I read stuff about a "fake insurrection", I picture a person with their fingers plugging their ears saying "lalalalala" real loud so as to not hear the truth.

Let's be clear about what happened on January 6th. It was political violence, it was caused by people believing in the wrong sources, and I would include Trump in that, and it was a bad day for US history in general. I'm glad the people who participated are being prosecuted. I would suggest leniency whenever possible. After all, they had every reason to believe this was the new normal.

Attempt to end democracy? No.

Insurrection? Nah.

The vast majority had gone to attend a rally....they had no intention of taking over the government. The vast majority (around 95% according to the FBI) had no ties to extremist groups of any kind. The few who did? No real planning or coordination between them.

It was a riot, to be certain, but not an insurrection....certainly not without precedent.

Remember this?

That's the 2017 inauguration of Trump. Are these violent insurrectionists? Or just rioters angry at a election result?

Probably a bunch of white supremacists trying to pretend to be Antifa. If only the Democratic Party members in Congress understood how many of these white supremacists have infiltrated BLM and Antifa....they might actually do something to prevent these organizations from doing so much damage.

Seriously though, this was 2017. It's not as bad as January 6th....but it's not exactly that different. Trump isn't the only one lying here...any Democratic Party representative calling this an insurrection and comparing it to 9-11 or Pearl Harbor? Also not an honest politician.

You can't downplay or encourage political violence for 4 years....then get upset when it's done by the other side. They aren't delusional, they're adjusting to the new rules of politics....rules the left has been playing by for 4 years.

AOC claimed to be hiding from this in terror behind a desk....in reality she wasn't even there. She and 20 other Democrats in Congress just voted against protecting Supreme Court Justices from protesters. They aren't against political violence. They support it as long as it's not aimed at them.

 

[Ana the Ist]

Shipping and aviation combined account for about 6% of global emissions. The electricity sector accounts for about a third of all greenhouse gas emissions.

And you're about to describe a way that sector will increase lol.

Cutting electricity emissions by 10% has the same impact as halving aviation and shipping emissions.

Great stat...at 6-7% shipping and flights make up a larger share of the problem than all but maybe 5-10 nations. That's not why I chose it though...I chose it because these are industries that are international. We can't do anything about Brazilian electric energy production...but nations could agree on these issues. Why don't they?

Solutions for aviation & shipping:

• Biofuel and sustainable alternative fuels. In operation onboard commercial aircraft now (circa 400,000 flights so far, adding about 8000 per week and the adoption rate is climbing). Also being tested in shipping (not sure about details, not my field). $5 billion investment in these fuels for aviation in 2020, and about ~$7.5 billion in 2021. Global output to rise 20 to 40 fold in the next six years, based on announced and funded projects. Current cutting per flight emissions by ~30-40%, with 50:50 blended use. Lifecycle CO2 reductions of 50-80% with 100% use (which has already been tested on commercial flights).
  
• MW class electric engines. In testing now, ready for use on small scale (sub 100 seat) commercial aircraft within five years. Zero emission flight, lifecycle emissions reduction of 30-80%, potentially greater. Embraer's next generation turboprop (service entry projected around 2028-2030) likely to have an option for electric engines.
  
• Hydrogen fuel. In development phase now. Ready for use in large commercial aircraft (greater than 150 seats) in around 10 to 15 years - major sticking point is infrastructure. Emissions reduction potential of 60-90%.

Ok...so I would normally ask why no links were included, but I think I can safely guess why...

Biofuel and sustainable alternative fuels. Fancy names, totally meaningless. I remember when we thought we could use corn to create biofuels that fuel everything. After doing the math, the plan was ditched as it didn't leave enough agricultural land for food production. As for claims about it currently being in use....that's amazing, especially since the carbon emissions of commercial flights haven't dropped. What's the issue? Too many flights?

As for the rest of it....how much is speculation about technology we don't currently have? Last I checked, about 2 years ago, batteries were simply too heavy for commercial flights to be viable. You'd have room for maybe 10 passengers.

As for shipping....as far as I know, they use some of the cleanest most efficient fuels and engines available. We don't have anything better.

And this really is the point I'm making....there's no real solutions available, probably won't have any available anytime soon. We can't solve issues we share globally....what's the chance our nation's will decide to hobble their economies willingly?

The Democratic Party is likely going to lose multiple seats this year....and if they continue this path, they will have a 1 term president. People are furious at gas prices now. If they could do what was necessary to stop climate change? They'd be facing daily riots.

 

[rturner76]

If however, everyone does their job, and successfully convicts a criminal....if the judge drops the sentence to time served....then we should consider why. Is the judge biased? Is the sentence inappropriate? Is this a personal opinion of the judge who thinks that the crime is not legitimate? Etc.

That's why I was thinking if everybody does their job, the buck kind of stops at the judge. But you are right, there are many cogs in the justice system.

The individual patrol person is following orders from their Sargent or lieutenant. The lieutenant gets their orders on what to prioritize from the captain and the captain takes his/her orders from the chief who works for the mayor or city council.

They are all rendered impotent if the prosecutor does not press charges and that of course would depend on the evidence the police officer has gathered.

Then the prosecutor is rendered impotent if the judge suspends the sentence or gives a guilty person time served.

You know all of this but that is why I chose the judges as being ultimately responsible provided everyone else has done their job.

 

[rturner76]

Maybe some people should go protest their homes instead of Kavanagh's.

I'm sure it will work out fine. It's not like they can just hire people to protect them.

Enter the Pinkertons

 

[FreeinChrist]

View attachment 317072

That's the 2017 inauguration of Trump. Are these violent insurrectionists? Or just rioters angry at a election result?

Probably a bunch of white supremacists trying to pretend to be Antifa. If only the Democratic Party members in Congress understood how many of these white supremacists have infiltrated BLM and Antifa....they might actually do something to prevent these organizations from doing so much damage.

I don't want to debate this with you. I don't care about the whataboutism or AOC.

There were protestors at Trump's inauguration. The violence at all protests is wrong. However, on Jan. 6th, there were coordinated groups and there was preplanning and the goal was to keep Trump in power, and to keep Pence from certifying the election. It is the first non-peaceful transition of power in US history and the Republican Party bears the shame of that.

In First Jan. 6 Hearing, Graphic Footage and Stark Testimony Show Depth of Attack

The committee’s chairman, Representative Bennie Thompson, Democrat of Mississippi, and vice chairwoman, Representative Liz Cheney, Republican of Wyoming, began laying out what they described as an elaborate, intentional scheme by Mr. Trump to remain in power, one unprecedented in American history and with dangerous implications for democracy.

“Jan. 6 was the culmination of an attempted coup,” Mr. Thompson said.....​

The committee’s chairman, Representative Bennie Thompson, Democrat of Mississippi, and vice chairwoman, Representative Liz Cheney, Republican of Wyoming, began laying out what they described as an elaborate, intentional scheme by Mr. Trump to remain in power, one unprecedented in American history and with dangerous implications for democracy.

“Jan. 6 was the culmination of an attempted coup,” Mr. Thompson said.....

The Proud Boys mounted an organized effort.
One of the witnesses, a British documentary filmmaker named Nick Quested who was embedded with the extremist Proud Boys, gave testimony that indicated that group’s leadership had conspired with another extremist organization, the Oath Keepers, well ahead of the riot to plan an attack that would breach the Capitol.

Mr. Quested showed footage he had shot of the Proud Boys leader, Enrique Tarrio, meeting clandestinely with Stewart Rhodes of the Oath Keepers on Jan. 5, and he told of the group breaking away from a morning rally behind the White House on Jan. 6 to scout police defenses around the Capitol.

“I am not allowed to say what is going to happen today because everyone’s just going to have to watch,” one woman said on video on the morning of Jan. 6, when no hint of an attack was evident.

​

Let's see what the hearing brings out.

 

[SimplyMe]

Just a reminder, since at least some here keep forgetting: the Keystone Pipeline is operation and sending hundreds of thousands of barrels from Canada down to the Gulf every day. As such, the numbers for the cancelled Keystone XL, which is the 4th state upgrade of the Keystone Pipeline (Stages 1-3B having already been completed and operational), do not account for the oil currently going through the Keystone Pipeline. As such, the numbers have to be cut in half (at a minimum) as that would be the new "capacity" of the Keystone, if the 4th stage upgrade was built and completed.

It is also why many of the job numbers are skewed -- the pipeline already has a number of people working administration and maintenance and few would need to be added for the upgraded pipeline -- most of the new jobs would be the short term jobs building the upgraded pipeline.

 

[Ana the Ist]

That's why I was thinking if everybody does their job, the buck kind of stops at the judge. But you are right, there are many cogs in the justice system.

The individual patrol person is following orders from their Sargent or lieutenant. The lieutenant gets their orders on what to prioritize from the captain and the captain takes his/her orders from the chief who works for the mayor or city council.

They are all rendered impotent if the prosecutor does not press charges and that of course would depend on the evidence the police officer has gathered.

Then the prosecutor is rendered impotent if the judge suspends the sentence or gives a guilty person time served.

You know all of this but that is why I chose the judges as being ultimately responsible provided everyone else has done their job.

I'm just not sure what you meant by that in regards to the OP.

As far as the law goes, it's illegal to harass or intomidate a judge in attempt to influence legal procedures.

Does a protest fall under that description? Certainly not at a court....as we've seen such things before.

However, I'd say that outside their homes it's at least harassment.

These protesters should be locked up. I doubt the DOJ will pursue this though, they've got angry parents at school board meetings to investigate.

 

[Ana the Ist]

Enter the Pinkertons

Probably something more like Blackwater but potato potato.

 

[Ana the Ist]

I don't want to debate this with you. I don't care about the whataboutism or AOC.

There were protestors at Trump's inauguration. The violence at all protests is wrong. However, on Jan. 6th, there were coordinated groups and there was preplanning and the goal was to keep Trump in power, and to keep Pence from certifying the election. It is the first non-peaceful transition of power in US history and the Republican Party bears the shame of that.

In First Jan. 6 Hearing, Graphic Footage and Stark Testimony Show Depth of Attack

The committee’s chairman, Representative Bennie Thompson, Democrat of Mississippi, and vice chairwoman, Representative Liz Cheney, Republican of Wyoming, began laying out what they described as an elaborate, intentional scheme by Mr. Trump to remain in power, one unprecedented in American history and with dangerous implications for democracy.

“Jan. 6 was the culmination of an attempted coup,” Mr. Thompson said.....​

The committee’s chairman, Representative Bennie Thompson, Democrat of Mississippi, and vice chairwoman, Representative Liz Cheney, Republican of Wyoming, began laying out what they described as an elaborate, intentional scheme by Mr. Trump to remain in power, one unprecedented in American history and with dangerous implications for democracy.

“Jan. 6 was the culmination of an attempted coup,” Mr. Thompson said.....

The Proud Boys mounted an organized effort.
One of the witnesses, a British documentary filmmaker named Nick Quested who was embedded with the extremist Proud Boys, gave testimony that indicated that group’s leadership had conspired with another extremist organization, the Oath Keepers, well ahead of the riot to plan an attack that would breach the Capitol.

Mr. Quested showed footage he had shot of the Proud Boys leader, Enrique Tarrio, meeting clandestinely with Stewart Rhodes of the Oath Keepers on Jan. 5, and he told of the group breaking away from a morning rally behind the White House on Jan. 6 to scout police defenses around the Capitol.

“I am not allowed to say what is going to happen today because everyone’s just going to have to watch,” one woman said on video on the morning of Jan. 6, when no hint of an attack was evident.

​

Let's see what the hearing brings out.

Yeah, the FBI is generally pretty good at these things....but if there was some planning that shows a coordinated effort to....

Do what exactly?

Did these guys think they could stop the election of Biden....by breaking and entering?

If these Proud Boys are the whole conspiracy...then that makes this a mostly peaceful protest with a few bad actors and instigators.

And I'm not engaging in whataboutism....that's done to excuse behavior. I agree they should be prosecuted.

I'm pointing out the hypocrisy of saying that you think anyone who disagrees with the severity of this is somehow in denial of reality.

People have been engaging in political violence for years now. The left has been downplaying it's severity whenever they aren't encouraging it.

Don't you remember the "summer of love"?

More people were killed in CHOP than the Capitol riot.

 

[FreeinChrist]

Yeah, the FBI is generally pretty good at these things....but if there was some planning that shows a coordinated effort to....

Do what exactly?

Did these guys think they could stop the election of Biden....by breaking and entering?

If these Proud Boys are the whole conspiracy...then that makes this a mostly peaceful protest with a few bad actors and instigators.

To do what?
Several of both groups are charged with seditious conspiracy by the DOJ

Seditious conspiracy - Wikipedia.

Seditious conspiracy is a crime in various jurisdictions of conspiring against the authority or legitimacy of the state. As a form of sedition, it has been described as a serious but lesser counterpart to treason, targeting activities that undermine the state without directly attacking it.[1]​

And Trump?

Jan. 6 panel says Trump, far-right groups responsible for insurrection - New Jersey Monitor

On Jan. 6, Trump did not contact his Defense secretary or attorney general to call off the attack, Cheney said.

He became angry with aides who asked him to do something to calm the rioters, she said.

“Aware of the rioters’ chants to hang Mike Pence, the president responded with this sentiment: ‘Maybe our supporters have the right idea,’” Cheney said. “Mike Pence ‘deserved it.’”

Thompson said part of the purpose of the hearing was to remind the American people what happened on Jan. 6.

In the past 17 months, Trump allies, including members of Congress, have sought to “rewrite history,” Thompson said, downplaying the seriousness of the attempted coup.

“Tonight and over the next few weeks, we’re going to remind you of the reality of what happened that day,” he said. “But our work must do much more than just look backwards. The cause of our democracy remains in danger.”

​

 

[rturner76]

However, I'd say that outside their homes it's at least harassment.

I would agree that a protest should be done at the courthouse rather than at someone's personal residence. But isn't the press allowed to camp out on the sidewalk in front of their subject's home?

I do wonder about the distinction between protest and harassment. How is that line drawn? I mean there are stalker laws that allow for restraining orders but how do we determine what is a legitimate protest and what is harassment?

 

[Ana the Ist]

To do what?
Several of both groups are charged with seditious conspiracy by the DOJ

Seditious conspiracy - Wikipedia.

Seditious conspiracy is a crime in various jurisdictions of conspiring against the authority or legitimacy of the state. As a form of sedition, it has been described as a serious but lesser counterpart to treason, targeting activities that undermine the state without directly attacking it.[1]​

I recall one person charged with seditious conspiracy. Is there more now?

And Trump?

Jan. 6 panel says Trump, far-right groups responsible for insurrection - New Jersey Monitor

On Jan. 6, Trump did not contact his Defense secretary or attorney general to call off the attack, Cheney said.

He became angry with aides who asked him to do something to calm the rioters, she said.

“Aware of the rioters’ chants to hang Mike Pence, the president responded with this sentiment: ‘Maybe our supporters have the right idea,’” Cheney said. “Mike Pence ‘deserved it.’”

Thompson said part of the purpose of the hearing was to remind the American people what happened on Jan. 6.

In the past 17 months, Trump allies, including members of Congress, have sought to “rewrite history,” Thompson said, downplaying the seriousness of the attempted coup.

“Tonight and over the next few weeks, we’re going to remind you of the reality of what happened that day,” he said. “But our work must do much more than just look backwards. The cause of our democracy remains in danger.”

​

Yeah....I don't know what to tell you. You got a conspiracy of guys who are going to take over the Capitol without guns and do what exactly? Stop the confirmation that definitely can't be done anywhere else? Is there some rule in the Constitution that if you break into the oval office and sit in the presidential chair....you run the nation?

How does this "coup" not end in a worst case scenario of these people getting gunned down by the military?

Honestly, compared to the CHOP in Seattle, where revolutionaries took control of multiple city blocks, established borders, and enforced their own brand of "justice" which appeared to be mainly just shooting young black men.

How did the Democratic Party respond to that?

Summer of love....let it play out for awhile.

Also, after checking your posts on the first page...I don't think you realize how bad the Waukesha parade massacre looks. It's not clear what the motive was? He posted racist anti-white memes and supported violence against white people. I don't really care if he wasn't a card carrying member of the Black Israelites. Most of the list of "white supremacists" you posted, also from the ADL, never joined any white supremacist groups. They were labeled as such because some racist things they said were dug up online...and not even explicitly white supremacist narratives. Just regular old racism. Unless the list has changed....it includes Elliott Rogers...the incel who was half Asian and never a white supremacist.

This is the topic of the OP unless I'm mistaken. The blatantly self serving double standards of the left.

 

[Ana the Ist]

That's why I was thinking if everybody does their job, the buck kind of stops at the judge. But you are right, there are many cogs in the justice system.

The individual patrol person is following orders from their Sargent or lieutenant. The lieutenant gets their orders on what to prioritize from the captain and the captain takes his/her orders from the chief who works for the mayor or city council.

They are all rendered impotent if the prosecutor does not press charges and that of course would depend on the evidence the police officer has gathered.

Then the prosecutor is rendered impotent if the judge suspends the sentence or gives a guilty person time served.

You know all of this but that is why I chose the judges as being ultimately responsible provided everyone else has done their job.

Responsible for what exactly?

 

[Ana the Ist]

I would agree that a protest should be done at the courthouse rather than at someone's personal residence. But isn't the press allowed to camp out on the sidewalk in front of their subject's home?

I do wonder about the distinction between protest and harassment. How is that line drawn? I mean there are stalker laws that allow for restraining orders but how do we determine what is a legitimate protest and what is harassment?

I agree....it's a difficult line to draw in a legal sense.

I guess for me personally...I can't really think of a legitimate reason to protest at someone's home. I tried to come up with at least one situation....I just can't. Can you?

I'd also say I don't agree with the idea of a counter protest. It's fundamentally an attack on someone's right to protest. I think if we are going to allow them....they can be held 24hrs after the original protest. When we allow these two groups to protest in the same general area at the same time....it just turns into violence.

 

[JustOneWay]

I recall one person charged with seditious conspiracy. Is there more now?

The answer is in the word conspiracy.
1 -a secret plan by a group to do something unlawful or harmful.

There is no conspiracy consisting of one person.

Leader of Oath Keepers and 10 Other Individuals Indicted in Federal Court for Seditious Conspiracy and Other Offenses Related to U.S. Capitol Breach

 

[rturner76]

Responsible for what exactly?

For the defendant or for society to receive justice. There are a lot of cogs in the wheels of justice and I'm wondering if it comes down to one of those cogs being the most important or is it more like all of the cogs need to be working in order for justice to prevail

 

[Ana the Ist]

The answer is in the word conspiracy.
1 -a secret plan by a group to do something unlawful or harmful.

There is no conspiracy consisting of one person.

You'd think that...

But if you can only identify one conspirator...you can still charge them with conspiracy.

Regardless....10?!? Out of 2500 people....10.

That's the conspiracy? What did they plan? How to best surrender to the proper authorities?

 

[JustOneWay]

You'd think that...

But if you can only identify one conspirator...you can still charge them with conspiracy.

Regardless....10?!? Out of 2500 people....10.

That's the conspiracy? What did they plan? How to best surrender to the proper authorities?

Now that you've been informed what a conspiracy is. Have a good day.

 

[Hans Blaster]

You'd think that...

But if you can only identify one conspirator...you can still charge them with conspiracy.

Regardless....10?!? Out of 2500 people....10.

That's the conspiracy? What did they plan? How to best surrender to the proper authorities?

You could always read the indictments:

https://www.justice.gov/usao-dc/case-multi-defendant/file/1470536/download

https://www.justice.gov/usao-dc/case-multi-defendant/file/1510966/download

Each gives a fairly detailed exposition of the charged conspiracy.

 

[Ana the Ist]

[Staff Edit]

[Staff Edit]

unless you can prove the Democratic Party and their leaders actively coordinated riots in the summer of 2020. I await your evidence.

It's a quote from the mayor (maybe the governor) in response to the riots that created CHOP.

My statement was about the Democratic reaction to political violence. It's 100% factual.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.q1...e-mayor-walks-back-summer-of-love-comment.amp

Wanna see some tweets from the Democratic mayor?

"CHOP is just not a lawless wasteland of anarchist revolt — it’s a peaceable expression of our neighborhood’s collective grief and their want to construct a greater world."

So let's be clear...a left wing mob burned down a police station, took over multiple city blocks, denied the basic rights of residents and business owners, and killed black men.

The response from the left was....oh well, they had good intentions.

That's the same party that describes a right wing mob rioting at the Capitol as comparable to Pearl Harbor or 9-11...despite the fact that the mob killed no one, and ultimately failed to seize any power or deny any rights.

How is anyone with eyes and a brain supposed to take claims of insurrection and dramatized fear of political violence from these people seriously? [Staff Edit]