Today at 07:17 AM Dopeuter said this in Post #11 said some stuff:
Like I said Dopeuter, I am personally against war in general, and this one in particular. But given the reality of the world situation, GW has the right and even the obligation to prosecute this war if he is to fulfil his duties as the elected president of the USA. The US (or any country for that matter) does not need UN approval to prosecute a war. Nor does GW have to be president of the world, nor is the UN a world governing body. All of these are falacies.
>>>didaskalos, When did the world vote George bush as a world president?? He may be the president of the US but he is not the president of the entire world. he thinks he is but he isn't.<<<
Of course there is no such thing as a world president. He is the pres of the US, and is acting is accordance with the US constitution and has the support of the majority of the US people. Most Americans are opposed to "world govenment" and any president who decided to act against American interests in perference to UN interests would likely get impeached. Even though I am against this war, I support the US and certainly our troops who are once again having to go out and clean up a world mess that the UN and others are unwilling to do themselves.
>>>We have the UN in place for that and the US has decided to take that place for themselves. <<<
Yes they have. And it is their right to do that. There is nothing in the UN charter that forbids what is being done.
>>>The US has no right to dictate there policies on a world basis against the UN and I do not see anything like a majority behind the US ideas (except thru political blackmail), either within the UN majority or in the public. I find most people feel the same way as the French do. Thank god for the French and there opposition.<<<<
If not for the US and the way they think, the French would be speaking german and the germans would be calling France East Germany. I am afraid you are missing some very important facts of US, European, and World history. (The US is the best thing to happen to the world since Jesus Christ!)
The reality of human and international relations is that war is evaded by strenght. If not for the overwhelming power of the US: Europe and most of the world would be speaking either German, Russian, or Chinese.
>>>If the world had the chance to vote on American politics , Bush wouldn't stand a chance.<<<
If the world had the chance to vote on American Politics, there would be no America. There would be 120+ nations in a constant state of war with each other, the Jews would have all been killed decades ago(either by the those "peace loving" Europians or the Arabs), and most of the world would be at a third world economic level. I am afraid you are a bit out of touch with reality.
>>> I fear that your claims about Sadam not disarming are more American propaganda. I do see them complying and disarming. it is only that the US is claiming that they are playing games.<<<<
GW seems to think that 12 years was too long. Many agree. He would not do it unless someone pointed a gun in his face. If we had not lead the charge into Kuwait in 91, Saddam would likely have taken most of the mideast by now and probably been nuked out of existance by Israel.
>>>Just because the US says something, doesnt make it true. from were I am standing, I see both sides and the US is the one using all the slander not Sadam. I have seen no reasons to date to believe that Sadam has any weapons of mass destruction.<<<
Perhaps they know something you do not. At this point the US has decided we are not going to wait for someone to invade poland or kuwait, or ram a couple of planes into our buildings before we do something. It is just a sad fact that many nations out there will not clean up their own back yards. Ok with me, but when their stench starts waifting into our noses, we are going to do something about it. If you have anit-US terrorists in your country, and are in any way supporting them... you had better get your yard tools out and get busy cleaning up your mess. We are not going to ask your permission or the UNs or anyone elses. Deal with it or we will. That is the offical US position.
>>> It is the US that we are all scared of because we all know who the real threat of Bio, Chemical and nuclear weapons will come from. The US will use them before anyone else on earth, there past track record proves that.<<<<
Again... I think you are a bit out of touch with history. I will say that the bombing of civilian populations is something we need to stop doing. We were not the ones to start it. The Germans started it with the bombing of London in WWII and the rest of the world just joined in. We are better than that and should limit targeting to military targets. Our technology is at a point where we do not have to do this. In the case at hand, the people of Iraq have suffered a great deal under Saddam, and we should not add to their suffering.
>>>If you are someone that doesn't agree with this war, then think of this;
My point is , have you ever watched someone totally slander someone else you don't like. even thou you don't like them you can see that your friend has gone too far and turned his reasonable dislike of a person into total irrational slander and hate.
this is exactly what I am seeing from so many Americans these days. you guys are full on being totally irrational in your propaganda and slander and through bitterness you sprout rhetoric full of false statements and propaganda.<<<<
I think you are a bit to close to the converstation. I do not know you, and certainly could not work up a full fledged hate toward you just because we disagree. People say things to support their opinion and to make points. Hate is not the motivation. It takes to much energy to work up a hate. I think you are not seeing this from the position of the average American. I am loyal to my county because I have first hand experience with what it takes to achieve freedom. My family fought in the US revolution. My father was in WWII saving Europe from their continual waring with each other. My brothers and I are all veterans of wars where we had to go clean up some other countries messes. We are just getting tired of it and would be glad to opt out and just let the rest of the world bomb each other into oblivion. I have a son in the Air Force, and certainly would never want him to have to rich his life saving the French from the Germans (again!) or save the Bosnians from whoever, or the Jews from the Muslims(or vice versa)... none of this is our business. When they all get done blowing each other up.... we can just come in rebuild the mess(again).
>>I have to combat this constant barrage of rhetoric with some defences of my own rhetoric to try to rationalise the irrational thoughts of the USA.<<<
Sorry... I find that many Americans are personally against the war, but find the anti-Americanism around the world to be totally uncalled for. The US has saved the world more than onCe in wars(hot and cold). The US has maintained peace in the world at the expense of our own men and standard of living. It is only because we have been sitting here with overwhelming power that much of the world has been at peace since WWII. The US has raised the level of the standard of living around the world. The US has done countless things to help nations, peoples, races and govenments. If you fail to see this, then I can only suggest to read up a little about American and World History.
We are just getting tired of sending our men and blood out to clean up the world's messes.
It is not so much that Americans are scratching their heads about the lack of gratitude... it is just that we are tired of being the only ones who are concerning about our needs. We look out for everyone else and the rest of the world just enjoys the ride until we need something... then they get all excited. Kind of like spoiled children.
(Let me back up and be sure to say that the US has some very good friends around the world like Canada, England, etc... who know the price of freedom is not passing an amendment or marching down a street with a poster. Freedom is purchased by blood by opposing those who seek to take it away...)
