Democracy or hypocrisy

[MetalBlade]

Today at 10:31 PM Dopeuter said this in Post #57



Looks, the American nation are only very young in comparison to the French nation. It was the French nation that liberated The Americas giving America her independence from the British in the revolution and the and war of independence. This is were your statue of liberty comes from.

Then in WW2 , France called on America to return the favour and the US sat back and did absolutely nothing at all to help France while Hitler threatened her and then invaded her. America sat back and watched the whole invasion and didn’t lift a single finger to help France. It wasn’t until much later that America entered the war in Europe at a time were they could just walk into Europe and take what they wanted with ease, because all the forces had been destroyed. That was not to liberate France but rather to beat Hitler and become the dominating world power along with Russia.

So, when I hear the US laying right into the French because they claim France owes them something, I am very confused because it is the other way around. America let the French down disgustingly in WW2 and yet the US claims France owes them something???? Other way around I think.

If The US want to use history to have a go at France then going back even further in history proves that it is the US that is indebted to France and France owes the US nothing because the US sat back and watched Hitler destroy France without lifting a single finger.

Sorry I am a history buff and I had to quote why your facts are wrong. The US is older than the present form of France. In fact the Constitution is the oldest form of government right now! You see France had many wars, which disrupted it's government. The French never liberated the US, they helped the US, yeah that is a fair assumption.

In WWII, the Americans had no reason to get into the war. France never called the US saying get in her and help! But we did help. We gave weapons to France and Great Britian during this time. France fell, and who came to help the British? The Americans. But who helped us fight the war in the pacific???

Your right, one of the reasons why America went into WWII was to stop Hitler, but not to become a dominating world power!! The US already was after WWI! You make it look like France got slaughtered in WWII! Compare that to Russia's casualties and tell me who got the better deal!!!!

I have nothing against the French in there ways. I speak some French. But what you have stated ins't entirely true!

 

[look]

Today at 10:31 PM Dopeuter said this in Post #57



Looks, the American nation are only very young in comparison to the French nation. It was the French nation that liberated The Americas giving America her independence from the British in the revolution and the and war of independence. This is were your statue of liberty comes from.

Then in WW2 , France called on America to return the favour and the US sat back and did absolutely nothing at all to help France while Hitler threatened her and then invaded her. America sat back and watched the whole invasion and didn’t lift a single finger to help France. It wasn’t until much later that America entered the war in Europe at a time were they could just walk into Europe and take what they wanted with ease, because all the forces had been destroyed. That was not to liberate France but rather to beat Hitler and become the dominating world power along with Russia.

So, when I hear the US laying right into the French because they claim France owes them something, I am very confused because it is the other way around. America let the French down disgustingly in WW2 and yet the US claims France owes them something???? Other way around I think.

If The US want to use history to have a go at France then going back even further in history proves that it is the US that is indebted to France and France owes the US nothing because the US sat back and watched Hitler destroy France without lifting a single finger.

Hmm, very interesting! After reading your post, I realized that I couldn't remember anything of the French helping us in the War of Independence. So, I did some research on the internet and found this. http://dspace.dial.pipex.com/town/terrace/adw03/c-eight/america/war.htm So I checked it out and now I understand where you are coming from. Sorry about doubting you, however, the French didn't actually fight alongside until after the battle of Saratoga. But, for the most part, I do understand what you are saying.

However, as time marched on, the people who gave our governments that friendship died and retired off. As new people who had not experienced that special relationship between the two countries came into positions of power, the two countries kinda drifted apart.

Today, the debt has been repaid, even stevens. From World War two. Today, a very different government runs France and likewise for the United States. Well that's all I'm going to say about that, because our social and moral conditions in both countries have disintegrated.

 

[Dopeuter]

Metal blade, as I said very accurately, the French nation has been around much longer and if you want to know who helped you in the pacific, well, it was the Aussies that got the Japes out of new guinea. Your assumptions of American greatness are false.

I get very tiered of American conceitedness??? I am also a history buff mate, it confuses me how you are saying I am wrong and yet you don’t seem to have been able to find anything inaccurate about what I said, bar bias American views. I find your opinion of American history a little bias, especially when Americans speak as thou they are gods gift to the earth????

Sorry I am a history buff and I had to quote why your facts are wrong.

My facts are not wrong mate, infact I see fault in your facts, i.e., “who helped you in the pacific”?? as though we Aussies don’t exist?? We have been beside you in almost every war and for some reason you Americans will forget about Aussie help in a second. It isn’t hard to see that you would sit back and watch an invasion of Australia just like you did to France after all they and we have done for the US. The British and the french did ask America for help in WW2 but America held back and watched.

America has a false consented attitude that likes to make out they are well liked and a good nation but the problem is that most of the world hate America while you guys recon your gods gift to the world, Americans believe they are loved but that is the opposite in the real world. Maybe you guys are wrong about a lot of other conceited attitudes in the US.

If you are going to claim I am flat out wrong instead of just saying you see it differently, then You are going to have to do a far better job than this to show my inaccuracy because you haven’t said anything that I didn’t say myself except to say my view of it is a little different to yours by opinion but the facts remain the same as you haven’t showen them as inaccurate at all so be careful when you tell someone they are “Wrong” , make shore you can prove it with facts mate, not your view or opinion of the same history????

 

[Dopeuter]

Today, the debt has been repaid, even Stevens. From World War two. Today, a very different government runs France and likewise for the United States. Well that's all I'm going to say about that, because our social and moral conditions in both countries have disintegrated.

Looks, I agree that the governmental systems are very different now and even see that it is even Steven, although that isn't the attitude coming from America on that issue. I also agree that these governments have disintegrated along with a lot of nations over the last 12 months. it is a real shame because my children will not live in the same world as I grew up in. the whole world has become unstable ever since 9/11 and George bushes revengeful attitude in diverting this terrorist war toward Iraq who really has nothing at all to do with terrorist groups, not that has been proven anyway. I find that Bush has cause a very unstable world environment and that is not the making of a good leader at all.

It would be wise for the US to realise that France doesn’t have to come to US aid just as the US didn’t come to there aid in WW2 and they don’t need to be hated for holding a different view to the US in all this. It is very shocking to watch French fries be turned into freedom fries just because France has the balls to think for themselves and hold an opinion that is actually held by the majority of the whole world.

 

[seebs]

Today at 10:49 PM Dopeuter said this in Post #64
It would be wise for the US to realise that France doesn’t have to come to US aid just as the US didn’t come to there aid in WW2 and they don’t need to be hated for holding a different view to the US in all this. It is very shocking to watch French fries be turned into freedom fries just because France has the balls to think for themselves and hold an opinion that is actually held by the majority of the whole world.

Lots of courage it must take to advocate letting a dictator build up his military, and selling him weapons. Worked great last time.

 

[panterapat]

I'll bet that many Iraqi babies born in the next year will be named George.

For President George W. Bush will be the savior of the Iraqi people.

 

[Yekcidmij]

I love Australians Dopeuter! You are right, Australia has stood by us (at least as far as I know) all the time. Australians are some of the nicest people around.

Just Because France has been around longer doesnt make them more legitimate for some reason or another. AS far as I know America did help france in WWII.



Changing french fries to "Freedom fries" is going too far; that's stupid.

 

[Rae]

Re "freedom fries;" the French don't want them to be called "french fries" anyhow because they aren't French in origin! They're Belgian. So if the goal is to keep on insulting France, it's counterproductive to change the name, as that's what the French want.

Re Israel: the point is that if we want to go after violators of U.N. mandates, Israel is a prime target. If we really don't, but want to go after people who have oil we want, we go after Iraq. Simple as that.

 

[My Higher Self]

Yesterday at 03:21 PM datan said this in Post #39 so which part of "UN inspectors roaming around Iraq" do you not understand???

I'll tell you which part I don't understand. I'll give you an example.

Datan, you are not allowed to have red shirts. On Monday, I am going to search your bedroom, on Tuesday I am gonna search your dining room, and on Thursday I am going to search your garage. Do you think if you were trying to hide any red shirts it would be easy...of course, you could just move them from one room to another. For UN inspectors to be effective they need free reign to inspect what facilities they want when they want, otherwise they have no chance of catching them with their pants down.

 

[My Higher Self]

Yesterday at 10:31 PM Dopeuter said this in Post #57 Then in WW2 , France called on America to return the favour and the US sat back and did absolutely nothing at all to help France while Hitler threatened her and then invaded her. America sat back and watched the whole invasion and didn’t lift a single finger to help France. It wasn’t until much later that America entered the war in Europe at a time were they could just walk into Europe and take what they wanted with ease, because all the forces had been destroyed. That was not to liberate France but rather to beat Hitler and become the dominating world power along with Russia.

Are you freaking kidding me?! We sat back and did nothing?! We waited until we could just walk in?! I beg to differ, in fact, there is a graveyard in Normandy with 10,000 American soldiers that would beg to differ. The US suffered staggering losses liberating France, in fact, I would bet that more American lives were lost in France than there were participating parties in the Revolutionary war. So don't think for one second that we haven't paid them back, and then some. And besides, what did France do to stop Germany from invading....toss their rifles on the ground and wait for help, that's what.

 

[datan]

Today at 02:40 PM My Higher Self said this in Post #69

For UN inspectors to be effective they need free reign to inspect what facilities they want when they want, otherwise they have no chance of catching them with their pants down.

and which was the last place they were denied access to?

 

[My Higher Self]

Its not about being denied access, its about having to schedule inspections.

 

[datan]

care to elaborate?

 

[My Higher Self]

Sure....

A planned inspection will yeild nothing except what you are supposed to find. Do think that if the police gave a drug dealer advanced notice that they are gonna search his house for evidence of a drug lab next week they would find anything?

The inspections of the facilities in Iraq are planned out and prenotified, making it seemingly impossible to find anything that they dont' want you to find.

 

[datan]

The inspections of the facilities in Iraq are planned out and prenotified, making it seemingly impossible to find anything that they dont' want you to find.

goes to show that you are misinformed.
I guess there's no point debating with you if you can't get your basic facts right.

 

[My Higher Self]

Oh, and I supposed you are so well informed...show me, in fact, that the inspections are conducted at random.

 

[Dopeuter]

Are you freaking kidding me?! We sat back and did nothing?! We waited until we could just walk in?! I beg to differ, in fact, there is a graveyard in Normandy with 10,000 American soldiers that would beg to differ. The US suffered staggering losses liberating France, in fact, I would bet that more American lives were lost in France than there were participating parties in the Revolutionary war. So don't think for one second that we haven't paid them back, and then some. And besides, what did France do to stop Germany from invading....toss their rifles on the ground and wait for help, that's what.

MHS, Gee you make me laugh mate. Can I just call you Jay because You make me laugh like he does.

I do see what your saying and from the context you are speaking, I mean no disrespect to those who did liberate France finally.

The context I was coming from Jay, was the context of how America acted towards the European war before and after Hitler invaded. the Americans didn't come to liberate France till yrs after that. the difference is, I am speaking of earlier on in the war and you are speaking about the end of the war.

Britain and France asked for American involvement but from what I recall, America rejected that on the grounds of it not being there war.

I was really only using the revolution and independence and the 2 WW to combated the barrage of anti French Americans Just because France is wanting to work with more peaceful means.

the French are following there convictions and they have a majority of the world behind them as far as public opinion goes.

There is no reason that I can see for the US to be dirty on France after the US sat back and literally watched Hitler invade France and America did nothing at all at that point. If America didn't finally go to Europe, it isn't German that we would speak, it is Russian. Hitler would have lost anyway but America wanted there share of Germanys empire so they went to Europe much later when Hitler was exhausted and took what they could, not for france’s liberation but for American power in the region, hence the cold war and the presence of American forces in Europe to protect there new interests.

 

[Oliver]

what did France do to stop Germany from invading....toss their rifles on the ground and wait for help, that's what.

 

Yeah, sure... and this "tossing of rifles" has cost them more lives in a few weeks than the US lost during the whole war, even if you count the war in the Pacific (and I'm not taking civilian losses into consideration).

In fact, at the beginning of the war, no army was able to stop Hitler on the ground, because the Wehrmacht was fighting a kind of war that had never been fought before, and with a kind of equipment that the allies didn't have at that time. The british expeditionnary corps suffered the same fate than the french army in Belgium, and had to flee to Great Britain (Dunkirk), and I highly doubt that any other country would have done better if confronted to the same situation.

 

[datan]

Oh, and I supposed you are so well informed...show me, in fact, that the inspections are conducted at random.

this is what Blix told the UNSC:

"This is not to say that the operation of inspections is free from frictions," he said, "but we are able to perform professional, no-notice inspections all over Iraq and to increase aerial surveillance."

 

[datan]

Yesterday at 02:51 PM My Higher Self said this in Post #70



And besides, what did France do to stop Germany from invading....toss their rifles on the ground and wait for help, that's what. [/B]

this is uncalled for country smearing.
The french are one of the most patriotic/nationalistic people. They would never surrender without a fight. Unfortunately, their defense strategy of an impregenable war was flawed. The French put up one of the most famous resistance of the war - the stories of their resistance fighters are known everywhere.

This is either beong ignorant or deliberately ignoring history and indulging in smear tactics. I'm not sure which is worse.