Pre-Mil Only [deleted]
- Thread starter True Science
- Start date
Yeah but what about all these trees:
Lebanon (1943)
Following World War I, France acquired a mandate over the northern portion of the former Ottoman Empire province of Syria. The French separated out the region of Lebanon in 1920, and granted this area independence in 1943.
Jordan (1946)
Following World War I and the dissolution of the Ottoman Empire, the UK received a mandate to govern much of the Middle East. Britain separated out a semi-autonomous region of Transjordan from Palestine in the early 1920s, and the area gained its independence in 1946; it adopted the name of Jordan in 1950.
Syria (1946)
Following World War I, France acquired a mandate over the northern portion of the former Ottoman Empire province of Syria. The French administered the area as Syria until granting it independence in 1946.
Egypt (1952)
Partially independent from the UK in 1922, Egypt acquired full sovereignty with the overthrow of the British-backed monarchy in 1952.
From the CIA World Fact Book:
https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/wfbExt/region_mde.html
(Click on the name of the country from the list and then "introduction")
“Look at the fig tree and all the trees. When they sprout leaves, you can see for yourselves and know that summer is near. Even so, when you see these things happening, you know that the kingdom of God is near"
From 1943 to 1952 five countries came back to life after being dead for a long time. Israel AND it's four bordering neighbors: Lebanon, Jordan, Syria and Egypt.
All within five years of the birth of The Fig Tree in 1948.
ye know that summer is nigh
Lebanon (1943)
Following World War I, France acquired a mandate over the northern portion of the former Ottoman Empire province of Syria. The French separated out the region of Lebanon in 1920, and granted this area independence in 1943.
Jordan (1946)
Following World War I and the dissolution of the Ottoman Empire, the UK received a mandate to govern much of the Middle East. Britain separated out a semi-autonomous region of Transjordan from Palestine in the early 1920s, and the area gained its independence in 1946; it adopted the name of Jordan in 1950.
Syria (1946)
Following World War I, France acquired a mandate over the northern portion of the former Ottoman Empire province of Syria. The French administered the area as Syria until granting it independence in 1946.
Egypt (1952)
Partially independent from the UK in 1922, Egypt acquired full sovereignty with the overthrow of the British-backed monarchy in 1952.
From the CIA World Fact Book:
https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/wfbExt/region_mde.html
(Click on the name of the country from the list and then "introduction")
“Look at the fig tree and all the trees. When they sprout leaves, you can see for yourselves and know that summer is near. Even so, when you see these things happening, you know that the kingdom of God is near"
From 1943 to 1952 five countries came back to life after being dead for a long time. Israel AND it's four bordering neighbors: Lebanon, Jordan, Syria and Egypt.
All within five years of the birth of The Fig Tree in 1948.
ye know that summer is nigh
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I think Ezekiel's dry bones were being written of during the Babylonian exile prior to the start of Daniel's 70 weeks. So the manifestation of Israel when Jesus walked the earth was the fulfillment of Ezekiel's dry bones.
And I agree with the intent of the title of your thread because I don't consider Jesus a mere prophet. Where we are now with national Israel is that the kingdom of God has been taken away from them and given to a people, producing the fruit of it. God has redefined terms like "Israel" and "Jew" and "Gentile" and even "the twelve tribes of Israel".
I'm sorry to say that I think Jesus is using them for nothing more than a simple sign post. They are doing nothing more than holding up a prophetic sign that simply reads:1948.
Note how James begins his two first chapters:
James 1:►
New International Version
James, a servant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ,
To the twelve tribes scattered among the nations:
Greetings.
James 2: ►
New International Version
Favoritism Forbidden
My brothers and sisters, believers in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ must not show favoritism.
So James audience is: "the twelve tribes scattered among the nations", who are also: "believers in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ".
So if I'm a believer in Jesus, I'm in one of the twelve tribes.
Even if I'm a little kid in Sri Lanka.
I hope David C. Pack is not watching this.
And I agree with the intent of the title of your thread because I don't consider Jesus a mere prophet. Where we are now with national Israel is that the kingdom of God has been taken away from them and given to a people, producing the fruit of it. God has redefined terms like "Israel" and "Jew" and "Gentile" and even "the twelve tribes of Israel".
I'm sorry to say that I think Jesus is using them for nothing more than a simple sign post. They are doing nothing more than holding up a prophetic sign that simply reads:1948.
Note how James begins his two first chapters:
James 1:►
New International Version
James, a servant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ,
To the twelve tribes scattered among the nations:
Greetings.
James 2: ►
New International Version
Favoritism Forbidden
My brothers and sisters, believers in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ must not show favoritism.
So James audience is: "the twelve tribes scattered among the nations", who are also: "believers in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ".
So if I'm a believer in Jesus, I'm in one of the twelve tribes.
Even if I'm a little kid in Sri Lanka.
I hope David C. Pack is not watching this.
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Their only purpose is as a sign, they are being used as a simple sign post and that is all. They are just holding up a sign that says 1948. I'm sorry for saying things that seem to go against the established Hal Lindsey OT eschatological style of apocalyptic prophecy.
But I know what you mean about the prophecies that refer to a physical land and people of the Jews. They sit oddly with the church alone. But the Daniel and Revelation prophecies also sit oddly with the OT eschatology schematic. God had three prophets operating at the same time, Daniel, Ezekiel and Jeremiah. Three prophets during the Babylonian exile all alive at the same time but they were prophesying about two completely different end time visions. Mixing these two very different outcomes has caused all kinds of confusion between the various theological groups.
If someone were to have just fallen off the turnip truck and only dig into the Daniel and Revelation story for two years of hard study, questions will begin to arise in that person's mind. Where do all those OT end time stories fit into the Revelation schematic. Where will the infant stick his hand down the viper den? When will we burn the weapons for seven years and when will Ezekiel's temple be built? The answer is that none of these things will fit properly into the Daniel and Revelation story.
To Seal Both Vision and Prophet.
Everything hinged on Israel's behavior during the 70 weeks. 70 weeks were determined, chawthak or cut off. It really was old Israel's one last and final chance:
- to finish the transgression,
- to put an end to sin,
- and to atone for iniquity,
- to bring in everlasting righteousness,
- to seal both vision and prophet,
- and to anoint a most holy place.
It's why John the Baptist was always saying that the Kingdom of God was at hand. Because it really was at hand right then and there. If the old time Jews would have cooperated and accepted their Messiah it would have been a completely different world right now. Daniel would have remained forever sealed, Revelation would have never been written, Ezekiel's Temple would have been built sometime early in the middle ages and Jesus would not have died in the exact manner that He did.
Zechariah 12:10:
"I will pour out on the house of David and on the inhabitants of Jerusalem,
the Spirit of grace and of supplication, so that they will look on Me whom they have pierced;
and they will mourn for Him, as one mourns for an only son,
and they will weep bitterly over Him like the bitter weeping over a firstborn.
"In that day there will be great mourning in Jerusalem, like the mourning of Hadadrimmon in the plain of Megiddo.…
the Spirit of grace and of supplication, so that they will look on Me whom they have pierced;
and they will mourn for Him, as one mourns for an only son,
and they will weep bitterly over Him like the bitter weeping over a firstborn.
"In that day there will be great mourning in Jerusalem, like the mourning of Hadadrimmon in the plain of Megiddo.…
I don't recall it happening quite that way.
Just look again at the first 12 verses of Ezekiel 43 and ask is it a sure thing that God will "dwell in their midst forever" and build that Temple or were there conditions or stipulations?
"Now let them put away their whoring and the dead bodies of their kings far from me,
and I will dwell in their midst forever."
“As for you, son of man, describe to the house of Israel the temple, that they may be ashamed of their iniquities;
and they shall measure the plan.
"And if they are ashamed of all that they have done,
make known to them the design of the temple,
its arrangement, its exits and its entrances, that is, its whole design; and make known to them as well all its statutes and its whole design and all its laws, and write it down in their sight, so that they may observe all its laws and all its statutes and carry them out."
and I will dwell in their midst forever."
“As for you, son of man, describe to the house of Israel the temple, that they may be ashamed of their iniquities;
and they shall measure the plan.
"And if they are ashamed of all that they have done,
make known to them the design of the temple,
its arrangement, its exits and its entrances, that is, its whole design; and make known to them as well all its statutes and its whole design and all its laws, and write it down in their sight, so that they may observe all its laws and all its statutes and carry them out."
If they put away their whoring,
And if they are ashamed of all that they have done.
What if they don't put away their whoring? What if they're not ashamed of all that they've done? Will the Lord still dwell in their midst forever? Will they still measure the plan of the temple? Or will these things of the Kingdom be taken away from them and given to a people producing its fruits?
There's similarities and parallels but Ezekiel's Gog Magog is not the same thing as the Gog Magog of Revelation 20.
A most holy place did not get anointed, but the vision and prophet have definitely been sealed. We're in the middle of the Daniel/Revelation deal right now. At the end of the tribulation Jesus is going to destroy those who destroy the Earth and every mountain and island will be removed from its place. When that's over the wicked will march up over the broad plain of the earth. There's no place for the infant to play near the cobra's den, or for the young child to put its hand into the viper's nest.
I like your note # 1 better, like a clean slate.
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I would too.
I know it sounds radical but it gets worse. There can't be any infant sticking his hand into a viper nest during Revelation's thousand years. Because it's going to be just like in the days of Noah, like in the days of Lot.
In the days of the trumpet call to be sounded by the seventh angel, among other things, the time will have come for Jesus to destroy "the destroyers of the earth.” On "the last day" Jesus will gather every single saint who ever existed, dead and alive, and we will all meet the Lord in the air. This will leave only the unsaved or the wicked who will then soon be killed by the Rider on the white horse and all the birds will gorge themselves on their flesh.
"From his mouth came a sharp sword to strike down the nations.
He will rule them with an iron rod."
He will rule them with an iron rod."
It's going to be like Psalm 2:9:
New International Version
You will break them with a rod of iron; you will dash them to pieces like pottery."
New Living Translation
You will break them with an iron rod and smash them like clay pots.'"
English Standard Version
You shall break them with a rod of iron and dash them in pieces like a potter’s vessel.”
New American Standard Bible
'You shall break them with a rod of iron, You shall shatter them like earthenware.'"
King James Bible
Thou shalt break them with a rod of iron; thou shalt dash them in pieces like a potter's vessel.
You will break them with a rod of iron; you will dash them to pieces like pottery."
New Living Translation
You will break them with an iron rod and smash them like clay pots.'"
English Standard Version
You shall break them with a rod of iron and dash them in pieces like a potter’s vessel.”
New American Standard Bible
'You shall break them with a rod of iron, You shall shatter them like earthenware.'"
King James Bible
Thou shalt break them with a rod of iron; thou shalt dash them in pieces like a potter's vessel.
(It is a terrifying thing to fall into the hands of the living God.)
The net result will be that after treading the great wine press of God, the only intelligent life left on the planet during the thousand years will be Lucifer and his crew. Jesus destroys the destroyers of the earth and the rest of us are resurrected and raptured out of here.
No place for infants and no country for old men.
"In my Father’s house are many rooms. If it were not so, would I have told you that I go to prepare a place for you?
And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again and will take you to myself, that where I am you may be also."
And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again and will take you to myself, that where I am you may be also."
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