Deism

[Chesterton]

Yes, the sun, the moon, atoms, all glorify and worship God and do have a consciousness according to Islam.

Rocks are alive and have perception according to Islam.

al-Hajj 22:18

The full chapter is here Center for Muslim-Jewish Engagement

The context ,like in many chapters, is warning people about the punishments for not believing in muhammad.

Thanks for the links. Far be it from me to defend the koran, but that is obviously poetical speech and not speaking of literal consciousness as I asked about.

 

[AskTheFamily]

Thanks for the links. Far be it from me to defend the koran, but that is obviously poetical speech and not speaking of literal consciousness as I asked about.

There are verses about everything glorifying God in the heavens and the earth.

 

[AskTheFamily]

Here is one such verse:

تُسَبِّحُ لَهُ السَّمَاوَاتُ السَّبْعُ وَالْأَرْضُ وَمَنْ فِيهِنَّ ۚ وَإِنْ مِنْ شَيْءٍ إِلَّا يُسَبِّحُ بِحَمْدِهِ وَلَٰكِنْ لَا تَفْقَهُونَ تَسْبِيحَهُمْ ۗ إِنَّهُ كَانَ حَلِيمًا غَفُورًا {44}
[Shakir 17:44] The seven heavens declare His glory and the earth (too), and those who are in them; and there is not a single thing but glorifies Him with His praise, but you do not understand their glorification; surely He is Forbearing, Forgiving.

 

[Chesterton]

There are verses about everything glorifying God in the heavens and the earth.

The pagans were the big oppenent originally. I don't think the author(s) going to insert some pagan animism while trying to copy-cat Judeo-Christianity at that late stage in time.

 

[AskTheFamily]

Well you can think what you want, there are verses about everything glorifying God in the heavens and the earth. I just quoted one.

 

[dcalling]

Social instincts and even moralities are hardly unfathomable, numinous or supernatural qualities. Evolutionary biology accounts for complex social behaviour, and you can observe it in other species. Species that, if we follow Christian orthodoxy, lack a "soul" on account of not being human.

Here's what happen if you give unequal pay to capuchin monkeys for performing the same task:

What happen when you give one monkey cucumbers but grapes for another monkey - YouTube

In my mind, animals such as monkeys, dogs also has some soul (it is like the Buddhist theory).

It is easy to develop a program to check the amount of food and decide which food pile to hung on to or fight for, it is another thing to have a 'feeling' (yes you can have fake ones in a Tuning test, but that is fake).

It is from that soul (or 'feeling', what ever it is, can't describe) that I believe there must be a God (or a pool of soul where all souls are coming from that one pool, in the Bible it is the breath of God), that extended something from pure material to something that is not archive-able by a computer.

 

[Jane_the_Bane]

In my mind, animals such as monkeys, dogs also has some soul (it is like the Buddhist theory).

Well, classical Buddhism knows no "soul", and reincarnation is less of a soul-migration and more of a continuation of karmic cause-and-effect.

It is easy to develop a program to check the amount of food and decide which food pile to hung on to or fight for, it is another thing to have a 'feeling' (yes you can have fake ones in a Tuning test, but that is fake).

It is from that soul (or 'feeling', what ever it is, can't describe) that I believe there must be a God (or a pool of soul where all souls are coming from that one pool, in the Bible it is the breath of God), that extended something from pure material to something that is not archive-able by a computer.

I doubt that intuition or "feeling" are supernatural phenomena. Emotions clearly derive from our endocrine system, and clearly serve a biological function: fight-or-flight, mating, protecting one's young, penalizing anti-social behaviour within the group, etc.

It would certainly be interesting to see if a genuine artificial intelligence would develop similar emotive responses based on programming. Since procreation and competition for resources would not be much of an issue for such entities, chances are that they'd develop a quite alien set of feelings, based on their purpose.

 

[VeroObscura]

It would certainly be interesting to see if a genuine artificial intelligence would develop similar emotive responses based on programming. Since procreation and competition for resources would not be much of an issue for such entities, chances are that they'd develop a quite alien set of feelings, based on their purpose.

Or indeed, what would happen to our own emotions if we used such a system to attempt to "host" our own human consciousness.

 

[Jane_the_Bane]

Or indeed, what would happen to our own emotions if we used such a system to attempt to "host" our own human consciousness.

Indeed! Far too many people are still trapped by the notion that their "self" is some immutable, ephemereal quality that operates utterly independent from their physical body, when in fact the two are inseparably linked.
Without the endocrine system, you would not be capable of feeling attracted to other people. You'd lack the means to feel angry, happy, afraid, content, or sad. And last but not least, your sensory reality would be utterly different from what you currently experience, shaping your self in a thoroughly divergent manner.
A human consciousness "converted" to digital form would be fundamentally different from the person it originated with. Separating a mind from its body would be just as much of an amputation as hacking off a limb and re-attaching it to somebody else, if not more so.

 

[Chesterton]

The only "flow of human consciousness" you'd get from a computer would be derived from the flow chart a programmer used to tell it what to do. Everybody knows computers are dumb, no matter how complex they are.

 

[Rationalt]

The only "flow of human consciousness" you'd get from a computer would be derived from the flow chart a programmer used to tell it what to do. Everybody knows computers are dumb, no matter how complex they are.

Nicely put.Lots of people have weird ideas about Artificial intelligence most probably from reading too many sci-fi novels.

 

[Hoankan]

Mod Hat On

Just a friendly reminder to check the Statement of Purpose. While this thread is going very well over all, it can be easy to cross the line on accident.
​

 

[dcalling]

I struggled with Christianity over the last 15 years. I tried a few different paths and was convinced of a creator yet not wanting to continually stumble in and out of Christianity so I tried out Islam for 6 weeks or to get a feel for it. It was a peaceful and interesting 6 weeks but in the end I found the same issues in it I found I disliked about Christianity. For now a deist matches me most closely. I believe in God but am not interested in defining much about him beyond that. He is our creator and we should be excellent to each other is about all I know.

May I ask what are the issues that you disliked?

 

[Vanguard PCD]

A good number of people on CF display the "deist" symbol. I was just curious what specifically you believe. An open question; discuss whatever you want.

I believe that God is the creator and all powerful. He made the universe and the laws of nature/science that govern it. He set everything in motion and then stepped back to observe.

I also believe in free will. God does not interfere with our choices, nor do we have predestination. Bad things happen because someone chose to do something bad.

I love nature and being outdoors. I see the miracle of creation in the world around me. There is something serene about looking out over the mountains under a blue sky, watching the wind blow the trees, and listening to the sounds of various animals.

I, with my Christian roots, do believe in Jesus as the messiah. His message was a positive one and should be followed. Live by the two commandments of "Love God, love people." I try to follow Jesus' teachings and worship God.

 

[Zoness]

I believe that God is the creator and all powerful. He made the universe and the laws of nature/science that govern it. He set everything in motion and then stepped back to observe.

I also believe in free will. God does not interfere with our choices, nor do we have predestination. Bad things happen because someone chose to do something bad.

I love nature and being outdoors. I see the miracle of creation in the world around me. There is something serene about looking out over the mountains under a blue sky, watching the wind blow the trees, and listening to the sounds of various animals.

I, with my Christian roots, do believe in Jesus as the messiah. His message was a positive one and should be followed. Live by the two commandments of "Love God, love people." I try to follow Jesus' teachings and worship God.

Do you attend a church? Do you find any that somewhat align with or tolerate a more Deistic approach to Christianity?

 

[Vanguard PCD]

Do you attend a church? Do you find any that somewhat align with or tolerate a more Deistic approach to Christianity?

I live in Alabama, which is in the heart of the Southern Baptist, ultra conservative Bible Belt. My views are not really welcome in mainstream churches, however they would not be so shrewd as to ban me from church...if I made my beliefs public.

There are a number of non-denominational churches that are more open minded.

The interesting thing is that the more people I talk to and explain my beliefs the more I find that could share the same "label."