Defining "Works"

[Butterball1]

1 Corinthians 3:12-14 NIV
If anyone builds on this foundation using gold, silver, costly stones, wood, hay or straw, 13 their work will be shown for what it is, because the Day will bring it to light. It will be revealed with fire, and the fire will test the quality of each person’s work. 14 If what has been built survives, the builder will receive a reward.

In the context, Paul is making a metaphorical comparison between building a building and building the church. When building a building, the building will only be as strong as the material put into it wood, hay stubble gold silver precious stones.
Since the church is NOT a literal physical building but is made up of people the "work" one must do in building the church is make converts. Paul call those Corinthian converts his "work" 1 Corinthians 9:1. Paul was a wise masterbuilder who "laid the foundation" (1 Corinthians 3:10) of the church at Corinth by working to make the initial converts. Others came behind Paul and built upon this foundation by working to make more converts. Therefore one must "take heed how he buildeth thereon" for the church will only be as strong as the faith of those converts being made...weak faith = weak church.

In this context "work" refers to a convert.

 

[RDKirk]

Lots of discussion lately about "works".
When compared with discussions about "grace" and "faith", we are pretty quick to define the terms.
But, what about "works"? It seems to go undefined, and appears to mean different things to different Christians. What's your definition?

Additionally, I would like to discuss a few aspects that I find interesting about works.
1) The good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do. (Ephesians 2:10)
2) The "do nothing" works of Jesus. (John 5:19) Imitating the Father.
3) Wood, hay and stubble works. (1 Corinthians 3:12-14)
4) No work "works". (Romans 4:4-5) Trusting God, not self.

Ephesians 2:10 NIV
For we are God’s handiwork, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.

John 5:19 NIV
Jesus gave them this answer: “Very truly I tell you, the Son can do nothing by himself; he can do only what he sees his Father doing, because whatever the Father does the Son also does.

1 Corinthians 3:12-14 NIV
If anyone builds on this foundation using gold, silver, costly stones, wood, hay or straw, 13 their work will be shown for what it is, because the Day will bring it to light. It will be revealed with fire, and the fire will test the quality of each person’s work. 14 If what has been built survives, the builder will receive a reward.

Romans 4:4-5 NIV
Now to the one who works, wages are not credited as a gift but as an obligation. 5 However, to the one who does not work but trusts God who justifies the ungodly, their faith is credited as righteousness.

I think only the two "works" are soteriologically distinct, as defined as "good works" in Ephesions 2 and the useless works Paul defines explicitly in Romans 4.

The good works of Ephesians 4 are the same thing Jesus speaks of John 5--both being the result of the Father's will.

Paul's definition of "the one who works" in Romans 4 is founded on Deuteronomy 25 and Luke 10. There is also a Proverb with the same meaning (can't locate it at the moment). Working for an employer creates an obligation of wages from the employer. "The one who works" attempts to obligate God to salvation for himself--salvation is the presumed wage due for the work he has done ("Didn't we cast out demons in your name?"). Paul is still working from this definition when he says, "The wages of sin are death."

 

[Butterball1]

John 6:28-29
Then they asked him, “What must we do to do the works God requires?”
29 Jesus answered, “The work of God is this: to believe in the one he has sent.”

In the context, the work God requires of man is the work of believing, so believing is a work.
The phrase "work of God" does NOT mean GOd does the work but God is the source of the work man is to do. The "work of your employer" means your employer would be the source of the work given you to do, not that the employer does the work himself.

 

[Saint Steven]

In the context, Paul is making a metaphorical comparison between building a building and building the church. When building a building, the building will only be as strong as the material put into it wood, hay stubble gold silver precious stones.
Since the church is NOT a literal physical building but is made up of people the "work" one must do in building the church is make converts. Paul call those Corinthian converts his "work" 1 Corinthians 9:1. Paul was a wise masterbuilder who "laid the foundation" (1 Corinthians 3:10) of the church at Corinth by working to make the initial converts. Others came behind Paul and built upon this foundation by working to make more converts. Therefore one must "take heed how he buildeth thereon" for the church will only be as strong as the faith of those converts being made...weak faith = weak church.

In this context "work" refers to a convert.

What about the phrase, "test the quality of each person’s work"?

Saint Steven said: ↑
1 Corinthians 3:12-14 NIV
If anyone builds on this foundation using gold, silver, costly stones, wood, hay or straw, 13 their work will be shown for what it is, because the Day will bring it to light. It will be revealed with fire, and the fire will test the quality of each person’s work. 14 If what has been built survives, the builder will receive a reward.

 

[Saint Steven]

Paul's definition of "the one who works" in Romans 4 is founded on Deuteronomy 25 and Luke 10. There is also a Proverb with the same meaning (can't locate it at the moment). Working for an employer creates an obligation of wages from the employer. "The one who works" attempts to obligate God to salvation for himself--salvation is the presumed wage due for the work he has done ("Didn't we cast out demons in your name?"). Paul is still working from this definition when he says, "The wages of sin are death."

So, how is it that the one who doesn't work is considered righteous?

Romans 4:4-5 NIV
Now to the one who works, wages are not credited as a gift but as an obligation. 5 However, to the one who does not work but trusts God who justifies the ungodly, their faith is credited as righteousness.

 

[RDKirk]

So, how is it that the one who doesn't work is considered righteous?

Romans 4:4-5 NIV
Now to the one who works, wages are not credited as a gift but as an obligation. 5 However, to the one who does not work but trusts God who justifies the ungodly, their faith is credited as righteousness.

Because salvation is not a wage for any kind of work in God's economy. The hired servant, working for a wage, didn't get to sleep in the house that night. That privilege belonged to the members of the household.

Paul has, for this argument in Romans, explicitly defined what he means in this argument as "work." Paul knows his Socrates, and Socrates had said, "Define your terms!" Work, here, means an effort to create an obligation of a wage. The work of members of the household do not create an obligation for a wage. They have the privilege (gift) of life within the household, bestowed by the master of the household. That includes those who were adopted into the household.

 

[bling]

Lots of discussion lately about "works".
When compared with discussions about "grace" and "faith", we are pretty quick to define the terms.
But, what about "works"? It seems to go undefined, and appears to mean different things to different Christians. What's your definition?

Additionally, I would like to discuss a few aspects that I find interesting about works.
1) The good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do. (Ephesians 2:10)
2) The "do nothing" works of Jesus. (John 5:19) Imitating the Father.
3) Wood, hay and stubble works. (1 Corinthians 3:12-14)
4) No work "works". (Romans 4:4-5) Trusting God, not self.

Ephesians 2:10 NIV
For we are God’s handiwork, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.

John 5:19 NIV
Jesus gave them this answer: “Very truly I tell you, the Son can do nothing by himself; he can do only what he sees his Father doing, because whatever the Father does the Son also does.

1 Corinthians 3:12-14 NIV
If anyone builds on this foundation using gold, silver, costly stones, wood, hay or straw, 13 their work will be shown for what it is, because the Day will bring it to light. It will be revealed with fire, and the fire will test the quality of each person’s work. 14 If what has been built survives, the builder will receive a reward.

Romans 4:4-5 NIV
Now to the one who works, wages are not credited as a gift but as an obligation. 5 However, to the one who does not work but trusts God who justifies the ungodly, their faith is credited as righteousness.

The word "work" seems to be used different ways in scripture.
The Jews were not to "work" on the Sabbath and "works" not to be done on the Sabbath seem to be well defined in the Old Testament. Faith seems to be defined by Christ as the Spiritual work human are to do.

 

[Butterball1]

What about the phrase, "test the quality of each person’s work"?

Saint Steven said: ↑
1 Corinthians 3:12-14 NIV
If anyone builds on this foundation using gold, silver, costly stones, wood, hay or straw, 13 their work will be shown for what it is, because the Day will bring it to light. It will be revealed with fire, and the fire will test the quality of each person’s work. 14 If what has been built survives, the builder will receive a reward.

"the day" refers to judgement day where a person's work (convert) will be shown for what it is. Those converts (work) that survive (are saved) then the person who made that convert will receive a reward. For those converts (works) whose faith failed will burn (be lost) and the person who made that convert will suffer a sense of loss over that work/convert. Those converts in Galatia Paul made had fallen from grace and Paul did suffer a sense of loss over them, Galatians 4:11 but Paul himself will still be saved as long as he remains faithful 1 Corinthians 9:27.

 

[Maria Billingsley]

John 6:28-29
Then they asked him, “What must we do to do the works God requires?”
29 Jesus answered, “The work of God is this: to believe in the one he has sent.”

Seems so simple yet, many miss His his very words on the matter. Be blessed.

 

[David Hunter]

It seems, when most people think of "works" (especially unbelievers) they think of getting up in the morning to go to 'work' at a 'job' so they can 'earn' a living. And, really, you could define getting out of bed in the morning "work" since you have to get one foot out, then the other, then push yourself up.

I love John 6:28-29, as you mentioned. Could you define "...to believe..." as work? Sure you can.

Also, I was just recently in Acts and came across Acts 26:20. Notice what Paul says about repentance and works/deeds...

 

[2PhiloVoid]

"We've never done it that way before." is the enemy of progress. - lol

As an Existentialist, I'm more prone than most follks to feel "free" to trek out in unsuspected directions that others don't wish to think about in Philosophy. However, in a case where we're trying to decipher what Paul is saying, I'm thinking that the method used in our efforts to understand Paul will probably need to be one that enables us to get at what Paul really meant to communicate to us on the whole.

On some level I can appreciate the idea of being innovative in our intepretations of Scripture, but I'm not sure that our innovations can, at the same time, ignore the usual paradigmatic and literary contexts that are interlaced with what a person (such as Paul) says or writes.

So, if we're going to interpret Romans 4:4-5, we can't do this by taking these verses alone, disconnected from the river of meaning that Paul is rolling forth throughout his entire letter to the Romans. I could be wrong, but Romans 4:4-5 has to be seen as a step within the dialectic which reflects all that runs through the whole of the letter to the Romans.

 

[GDL]

Lots of discussion lately about "works".
When compared with discussions about "grace" and "faith", we are pretty quick to define the terms.
But, what about "works"? It seems to go undefined, and appears to mean different things to different Christians. What's your definition?

From my limited perspective and understanding of the N.T., and in very short order, I'm inclined to say that there are really three "works" in the N.T.

However, I don't think that is what Romans 4:4-5 is in reference to. Though there is discussion of the "works of the law" is chapter three, chapter four begins like this.

Romans 4:1-3
What then shall we say that Abraham, our forefather according to the flesh, discovered in this matter? 2 If, in fact, Abraham was justified by works, he had something to boast about—but not before God. 3 What does Scripture say? “Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness.”

Well, I understand your point, but I'm going to have to unfortunately disagree with you on your reading of Romans 4:1-3, bro. ... I hope we can still be friends.

There are different types/kinds of works in the BIble, works of God (John 9:3), works of Satan (1 John 3:8), works of righteousness (Acts of the Apostles 10:35), works of unrighteousness (Romans 2:8) works of faith (Galatians 5:6), works of the flesh (Galatians 5:19), works of obedience in submitting to God's commands (Romans 10:3) works/deeds required by the OT law (Galatians 3:2) works of merit one can boast about (Ephesians 2:9) good works (Titus 3:8) etc, etc.

Informative post by Butterball1.

Looking for definition of works and using some of the discussion of Romans:

To briefly set this up, I once collaborated in translating a pastor/teacher's book into another language, which was the natural language of the person I worked with. The response from the person in the country who reviewed our effort was that our language was "wooden." Moral of the story is there is a flow to language that is difficult to non natives.

I think Greek was much more natural to Paul than to most of us. So, there is a flow to his writing that's difficult to most of us, especially looking through artificial chapter and verse numbering.

Works: By the time Paul mentions "works" in Romans he's already at 2:6, but he's been writing about many things people do and accomplish and work to accomplish and accomplish by work. IMO, in 2:6 his referencing Ps62:12; Prov24:12 (very interesting one) and being in line with Jesus' statement in Matt16:27, is his summing up what he has written so far about all of these activities of people. So, all the things that people do & accomplish and work to accomplish & accomplish by work (the various Greek words Paul's used), God will recompense according to their works.

Paul also goes on to speak of good works vs. evil works / sin / disobeying truth / obeying unrighteousness. And he began by saying his commission as Apostle was for obedience of faith among the nations (1:5) which he seems to tie a few verses later (1:17) to Hab2:4 the just/righteous will live by his faith.

My Hebrew is much weaker than my Greek, but I noticed some time ago that the translation "faith" for Hab2:4 was questionable. I thought "faithfulness" would be better. Here's a note I just looked at in the NET version (underlines are mine):

15 tn Or "loyalty"; or "integrity." The Hebrew word אֱמוּנָה ('emunah) has traditionally been translated "faith," but the term nowhere else refers to "belief" as such. When used of human character and conduct it carries the notion of "honesty, integrity, reliability, faithfulness." The antecedent of the suffix has been understood in different ways. It could refer to God's faithfulness, but in this case one would expect a first person suffix (the original form of the LXX has "my faithfulness" here). Others understand the "vision" to be the antecedent. In this case the reliability of the prophecy is in view. For a statement of this view, see J. J. M. Roberts, Nahum, Habakkuk, and Zephaniah (OTL), 111–12. The present translation assumes that the preceding word "[the person of] integrity" is the antecedent. In this case the LORD is assuring Habakkuk that those who are truly innocent will be preserved through the coming oppression and judgment by their godly lifestyle, for God ultimately rewards this type of conduct. In contrast to these innocent people, those with impure desires (epitomized by the greedy Babylonians; see v. 5) will not be able to withstand God's judgment (v. 4a).

The point IMO, Paul's mission is "obedience of faith" among the nations. A legitimate translation of this phrase can be a correlating of the 2 nouns and "of" is just a customary insertion in translating. So, for me this is just faith-obedience, which after all of the analysis comes down to faithfulness to God who we believe and obey. This correlates to Hab2:4.

End of all this: Works are virtually all things we do either: in belief in God / faith-obedience / faithfulness to God, vs. in disobedience to him, which is not in belief of Him, or as Paul also says, disobedience to truth / obedience to unrighteousness. IOW down to the everyday things:

NET Romans 14:23 But the man who doubts is condemned if he eats, because he does not do so from faith, and whatever is not from faith is sin.

Fluidity in language. Context.


​

 

[NotreDame]

As an Existentialist, I'm more prone than most follks to feel "free" to trek out in unsuspected directions that others don't wish to think about in Philosophy. However, in a case where we're trying to decipher what Paul is saying, I'm thinking that the method of our efforts to understand Paul will probably need to be one that enables us to get at what Paul really meant to communicate to us on the whole.

On some level I can appreciate the idea of being innovative in our intepretations of Scripture, but I'm not sure that our innovations can, at the same time, ignore the usual paradigmatic and literary contexts that are interlaced with what a person (such as Paul) says or writes.

So, if we're going to interpret Romans 4:4-5, we can't do this by taking these verses alone, disconnected from the river of meaning that Paul is rolling forth throughout his entire letter to the Romans. I could be wrong, but Romans 4:4-5 has to be seen as a step within the dialectic which reflects all that runs through the whole of the letter to the Romans.

But those verses are not ambiguous. Paul's point is not ambiguous. Paul's point in Chapter 4, as it pertains to whether it is faith or works which bestows, righteousness, is not ambiguous. Paul unequivocally says it is faith, not works, which bestows righteousness.

"What then shall we say that Abraham, our forefather according to the flesh, has found? 2 For if Abraham was justified by works, he has something to boast about; but not before God. 3 For what does the Scripture say? “Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness.” 4 Now to the one who works, the wages are not credited as a favor, but as what is due. 5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is credited as righteousness, 6 just as David also speaks of the blessing of the person to whom God credits righteousness apart from works...For this reason it is by faith, in order that it may be in accordance with grace, so that the promise will be guaranteed to all the descendants, not only to those who are of the Law, but also to those who are of the faith of Abraham, who is the father of us all"

Lacking ambiguity, there is no need to read this verses "from the river of meaning that Paul is rolling forth throughout his entire letter to the Romans." An important and logical rule of interpretation and construction, whether it is a statute, the U.S. Constitution, literature, the Bible, is the plain text meaning is paramount, and no need to go beyond what is stated in the plain text. Paul is not writing ambiguously here, he is explicitly stating it is by faith, not works, in which we are justified, in which Abraham was justified, and faith, not works, which is "credited as righteousness."

This operates in harmony with Paul's point if it were by works, then we could boast our works have saved us, justified us, made us righteous. Paul, however, states the works doctrine does not allow us to boast it was works which justified/saved/ us, because our works do not justify us before God. After all, Paul said, "For if Abraham was justified by works, he has something to boast about; but not before God. 3 For what does the Scripture say? “Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness.”

Paul is unambiguous, it is faith, not works, that justifies, saves, and is "credited as righteousness" to us, before God. Hence, there is no need to go beyond the unambiguous, plain text.

 

[fhansen]

Paul was battling legalism, the idea that we must merely observe the law externally in order to be declared righteous, justified, etc. The New Covenant ushers in a new and higher standard-that we must be clean on the inside first of all-then the right external acts will follow. This can occur only as God becomes the God of each of us again, as we come to know and are reconciled with Him-because then He can do a work in us, of placing His law in our minds and writing it on our hearts (Jer 31:33).

Adam effectively dismissed this God and His authority, becoming his own "god" for all practical purposes, but, ironically perhaps, still looking for the God he rejected and disparately needs but now looking in all the wrong, created, worldly places. And then God comes to find us, when the time is ripe in our lives. Anyway, we become reconciled with God by believing in Him again, as our God, and then the relationship with Him that man was made for but that foolish and ugly pride destroyed can resume.

"No longer will they teach their neighbor,
or say to one another, ‘Know the Lord,’
because they will all know me,
from the least of them to the greatest,”
declares the Lord." Jer 31:34

"Now this is eternal life: that they know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent." John 17:3

And authentic righteousness now flows from this partnership, this communion, by its nature as we remain in God and He in us. Sin is, and must be, overcome in the big picture by virtue of this relationship, but under grace now rather than under the law which can only produce "white-washed tombs" at best, clean on the outside while still filthy on the inside.

"If we claim to have fellowship with Him and yet walk in the darkness, we lie and do not live out the truth. But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus, His Son, purifies us from all sin." 1 John 1:6-7

"No one who lives in Him keeps on sinning. No one who continues to sin has either seen Him or known Him." 1 John 3:6

"Therefore, brothers and sisters, we have an obligation—but it is not to the flesh, to live according to it. For if you live according to the flesh, you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the misdeeds of the body, you will live." Rom 8:12-13

The law that God now writes on our hearts is the "law of love", love being the image of God we're to be transformed into and the very definition of justice or righteousness for man (which is why the greatest commandments are what they are). This love, flowing from the Spirit, produces works by its nature, the right kind, prepared for us in advance (Eph 2:10), excluding sin/fulfilling the law (Rom 13:10), doing good (Rom 2:7), producing holiness (Heb 12:14), putting to death the deeds of the flesh (Rom 8:12-13), obeying the commandments (Matt 19:17), causing purity of heart, meekness, and humility (Matt 5:3-10), doing "for the least of these" (Matt 25:31-46), exceeding the righteous of the Pharisees and teachers of the law (Matt 5:20), washing our robes (Rev 22:14).

"And hope does not put us to shame, because God’s love has been poured out into our hearts through the Holy Spirit, who has been given to us." Rom 5:5

"...if I have a faith that can move mountains but have not love, I am nothing." 1 Cor 13:2

And Scripture makes it quite plain that such things, such "works" must be done. Man's obligation to be righteous, to, for one, overcome the sin that causes his death, his separation from the Source of his life, does not go away with the New Covenant, but in fact, is now made possible, but with God now, by faith, because He, alone, can justify man.

"...not having a righteousness of my own that comes from the law, but that which is through faith in Christ—the righteousness that comes from God on the basis of faith." Phil 3:9

"Apart from Me you can do nothing." John 15:5

"I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me." Phil 4:13

A teaching I appreciate makes this statement about Adam:
"Seduced by the devil, he wanted to "be like God", but "without God, before God, and not in accordance with God".

God wants us to be like Him also, but this cannot be done apart from Him. Our faith is all about becoming with God first of all. Then justice and order are restored to His creation and His work, His plan of salvation that was meant from the beginning to ultimately produce something great, something better than He began with, is blossoming. It's been said that God created His world in a "state of journeying to perfection", a perfection that only He can fully know but which is achieved in us to the extent that we love Him with our whole heart, soul, mind, and strength. Our job is to get on board, and remain there, with the help of grace, of Him IOW. Love is what makes us most like God. And if Adam was able to embrace that love in Eden obedience would've come of its own accord. Abd like Adam we can still end up preferring pride, preferring ourselves and our own agendas, to love, to Him.

 

[GDL]

John 6:28-29
Then they asked him, “What must we do to do the works God requires?”
29 Jesus answered, “The work of God is this: to believe in the one he has sent.”

In the context, the work God requires of man is the work of believing, so believing is a work.
The phrase "work of God" does NOT mean GOd does the work but God is the source of the work man is to do. The "work of your employer" means your employer would be the source of the work given you to do, not that the employer does the work himself.

I'm not sure what Steve's point was making posting the verses. I see this differently than Butterball does:

- In 6:44-45 Jesus explains the work our Father is doing to bring people to His Son:

- He's drawing (can literally be dragging) people to His Son by teaching
​

- Jesus doesn't always answer questions directly. He's great at controlling the narrative

- His audience is working hard traveling around and following Him for free meals.

- After some of such travels: NKJ John 6:25 And when they found Him on the other side of the sea, they said to Him, "Rabbi, when did You come here?"

- He controls the conversation: 26 Jesus answered them and said, "Most assuredly, I say to you, you seek Me, not because you saw the signs, but because you ate of the loaves and were filled.

- 27 "Do not labor for the food which perishes, but for the food which endures to everlasting life, which the Son of Man will give you, because God the Father has set His seal on Him."

- Note Jesus just commanded them to work to receive the gift He gives. Consider this in the works considerations.

- Note some more of our Father's work in this Salvation project - He set His seal on Jesus [whom He sent]

- Our Father is working. Jesus is working. Jesus has something to give them if they redirect their labors to listen and learn and receive (believe).
​

- They don't get it and want to know what they can do to "work the works of God." NKJ John 6:28 Then they said to Him, "What shall we do, that we may work the works of God?"

- Take what Paul was saying about works in Romans and see that there is nothing they can do as unbelievers to work the works of God (works done in faith, which they don't yet have and/or God's works that only He can do - like teaching/dragging them to bring them into His Salvation by faith in His Son). John seems purposely ambiguous at times.
​

- NKJ John 6:29 Jesus answered and said to them, "This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He sent."

- So, how do we read the somewhat ambiguous "work of God" knowing how Jesus is controlling this discussion and answering indirectly?

- It's God's work that you believe in Him whom He sent? God is working to get you to believe. Our belief is God's work. This seems to go well with our Salvation by faith being God's work.

- I see where Butterball1 is takings this, but I hesitate to say faith is a work - actually it seems more a stop dead in my tracks rather than a hesitation. Granted, Jesus commanded to work to receive the gift He gives, but that work in context seems to be the listening to learn in order to believe vs. the belief itself.​

 

[Tree of Life]

Lots of discussion lately about "works".
When compared with discussions about "grace" and "faith", we are pretty quick to define the terms.
But, what about "works"? It seems to go undefined, and appears to mean different things to different Christians. What's your definition?

Additionally, I would like to discuss a few aspects that I find interesting about works.
1) The good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do. (Ephesians 2:10)
2) The "do nothing" works of Jesus. (John 5:19) Imitating the Father.
3) Wood, hay and stubble works. (1 Corinthians 3:12-14)
4) No work "works". (Romans 4:4-5) Trusting God, not self.

Ephesians 2:10 NIV
For we are God’s handiwork, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.

John 5:19 NIV
Jesus gave them this answer: “Very truly I tell you, the Son can do nothing by himself; he can do only what he sees his Father doing, because whatever the Father does the Son also does.

1 Corinthians 3:12-14 NIV
If anyone builds on this foundation using gold, silver, costly stones, wood, hay or straw, 13 their work will be shown for what it is, because the Day will bring it to light. It will be revealed with fire, and the fire will test the quality of each person’s work. 14 If what has been built survives, the builder will receive a reward.

Romans 4:4-5 NIV
Now to the one who works, wages are not credited as a gift but as an obligation. 5 However, to the one who does not work but trusts God who justifies the ungodly, their faith is credited as righteousness.

The Greek ergon can mean different things in different contexts but it’s most general meaning is something like “products” or “efforts”.

 

[GDL]

Paul is unambiguous, it is faith, not works, that justifies, saves, and is "credited as righteousness" to us, before God. Hence, there is no need to go beyond the unambiguous, plain text.

The first question in the OP was about defining works. How would you define works?

 

[GDL]

Our faith is all about becoming with God first of all.

The beginning of Paul's "obedience of faith" in Romans, I think. Until then everything we do is essentially works of unrighteousness.

Our job is to get on board, and remain there, with the help of grace, of Him IOW.

I think per John 6, it's to let God draw us on board through His work in teaching us what He requires we believe.

 

[Hmm]

Paul was battling legalism, the idea that we must merely observe the law externally in order to be declared righteous, justified, etc. The New Covenant ushers in a new and higher standard-that we must be clean on the inside first of all-then the right external acts will follow. This can occur only as God becomes the God of each of us again, as we come to know and are reconciled with Him-because then He can do a work in us, of placing His law in our minds and writing it on our hearts (Jer 31:33).

Adam effectively dismissed this God and His authority, becoming his own "god" for all practical purposes, but, ironically perhaps, still looking for the God he rejected and disparately needs but now looking in all the wrong, created, worldly places. And then God comes to find us, when the time is ripe in our lives. Anyway, we become reconciled with God by believing in Him again, as our God, and then the relationship with Him that man was made for but that foolish and ugly pride destroyed can resume.

"No longer will they teach their neighbor,
or say to one another, ‘Know the Lord,’
because they will all know me,
from the least of them to the greatest,”
declares the Lord." Jer 31:34

"Now this is eternal life: that they know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent." John 17:3

And authentic righteousness now flows from this partnership, this communion, by its nature as we remain in God and He in us. Sin is, and must be, overcome in the big picture by virtue of this relationship, but under grace now rather than under the law which can only produce "white-washed tombs" at best, clean on the outside while still filthy on the inside.

"If we claim to have fellowship with Him and yet walk in the darkness, we lie and do not live out the truth. But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus, His Son, purifies us from all sin." 1 John 1:6-7

"No one who lives in Him keeps on sinning. No one who continues to sin has either seen Him or known Him." 1 John 3:6

"Therefore, brothers and sisters, we have an obligation—but it is not to the flesh, to live according to it. For if you live according to the flesh, you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the misdeeds of the body, you will live." Rom 8:12-13

The law that God now writes on our hearts is the "law of love", love being the image of God we're to be transformed into and the very definition of justice or righteousness for man (which is why the greatest commandments are what they are). This love, flowing from the Spirit, produces works by its nature, the right kind, prepared for us in advance (Eph 2:10), excluding sin/fulfilling the law (Rom 13:10), doing good (Rom 2:7), producing holiness (Heb 12:14), putting to death the deeds of the flesh (Rom 8:12-13), obeying the commandments (Matt 19:17), causing purity of heart, meekness, and humility (Matt 5:3-10), doing "for the least of these" (Matt 25:31-46), exceeding the righteous of the Pharisees and teachers of the law (Matt 5:20), washing our robes (Rev 22:14).

"And hope does not put us to shame, because God’s love has been poured out into our hearts through the Holy Spirit, who has been given to us." Rom 5:5

And Scripture makes it quite plain that such things, such "works" must be done. Man's obligation to be righteous, to, for one, overcome the sin that causes his death, his separation from the Source of his life, does not go away with the New Covenant, but in fact, is now made possible, but with God now, by faith, because He, alone, can justify man.

"...not having a righteousness of my own that comes from the law, but that which is through faith in Christ—the righteousness that comes from God on the basis of faith." Phil 3:9

"Apart from Me you can do nothing." John 15:5

"I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me." Phil 4:13

A teaching I appreciate makes this statement about Adam:
"Seduced by the devil, he wanted to "be like God", but "without God, before God, and not in accordance with God".

God wants us to be like Him also, but this cannot be done apart from Him. Our faith is all about becoming with God first of all. Then justice and order are restored to His creation and His work, His plan of salvation that was meant from the beginning to ultimately produce something great, something better than He began with, is blossoming. It's been said that God created His world in a "state of journeying to perfection", a perfection that only He can fully know but which is achieved in us to the extent that we love him with our whole heart, soul, mind, and strength. Our job is to get on board, and remain there, with the help of grace, of Him IOW.

That's very well expressed and certainly relates to my experience. I have times where I feel close to God and times when I don't. When I look back the times when I don't is always because of my behaviour, usually because I'm being self-centred in some way. Reminding myself that God always loves me is always my first step back to feeling whole again.

 

[fhansen]

The beginning of Paul's "obedience of faith" in Romans, I think. Until then everything we do is essentially works of unrighteousness.

Yes, and it could probably be said that everything done by faith is done under grace. And either way everything done in that state is right.

I think per John 6, it's to let God draw us on board through His work in teaching us what He requires we believe.

Yes, it's not either/or, but both/and. God draws, we respond- or not.
"If you remain in Me and I in you, you will bear much fruit; apart from Me you can do nothing." John 15:5