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Defining sola scriptura.

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Albion

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Interesting samples.

Yes, and notice how dissimilar the definitions given are, one from another.

1. dictionary says:
Sola scriptura (Latin ablative, "by Scripture alone") is the Protestant Christian doctrine that the Bible is the supreme authority in all matters of doctrine and practice.

2. Wikipedia says:
Sola scriptura (Latin ablative, "by Scripture alone") is the Protestant Christian doctrine that the Bible is the supreme authority in all matters of doctrine and practice.

3. CARM says:
Sola Scriptura is the teaching that the Scriptures contain all that is necessary for salvation and proper living before God.

4. The Christian Research Institute says:
PROTESTANT UNDERSTANDING OF SOLA SCRIPTURA
Sola Scriptura- A Definition By sola Scriptura Protestants mean that Scripture alone is the primary and absolute source for all doctrine and practice (faith and morals).

Some of these are little more than privately created websites run by people without any particular claim to being experts in this matter, but just look at the differences they've come up with!

Oh, wait....

Never mind.
 
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MoreCoffee

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Yes, it is interesting that they all speak of sola scriptura as doctrine.
 
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Albion

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Yes, it is interesting that they all speak of sola scriptura as doctrine.

...and they all describe it in nearly-identical words, which puts the lie to the claim we've read here that everyone has his own idea of what Sola Scriptura means, or that you can go to Google and get any number of different understandings, etc. etc. And remember that I was not the one who compiled this line-up of sources.
 
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MoreCoffee

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Yes, that is so. Yet it is called doctrine and isn't that something that has been vigorously denied?
 
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Kristos

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Well, yes - that is why they are interesting. Good thing we have so many experts here to explain it all
 
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Root of Jesse

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Of course! Any questions Catholics have about Protestent sects is a shell game, to the Protestants. Why? Because they're all different from one another, and there is no one "Protestant" set of doctrines, except that they're different from Catholics.

So when we get a concrete answer on something, from whatever source it's easy for anyone to say "No, that's not what it is." And then you scratch your heads and wonder why we misunderstand. But that's just it...we don't. We take the words for what they mean. Sola Scriptura.
 
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Albion

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Of course! Any questions Catholics have about Protestent sects is a shell game, to the Protestants.

I don't know whom you have in mind there. I haven't said that--and wouldn't--and that goes for CalJosiah, too, I'm sure.

In fact, we can all see that we are not adverse to answering questions from Catholics since we've invited them many times and have spent an enormous amount of time and effort explaining again and again and in every way possible the meaning of Sola Scriptura, not because we don't understand it but because Catholic members of CF have said that they don't understand it.
 
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Metal Minister

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Don't expect that this will stop the constant use of that red herring though, lol. I've been lurking, you and CaliforniaJosiah seem to have this well in hand.
 
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MoreCoffee

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Don't expect that this will stop the constant use of that red herring though, lol. I've been lurking, you and CaliforniaJosiah seem to have this well in hand.

Lurking?

Reckon you can give answering my question a go?
 
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MoreCoffee

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Which one is that? Note that I'm using the android app, so links and post numbers are unfortunately useless.

The ones in the quotes. I didn't give any links.

I wrote: Holy scripture is a little larger in my bible and the teaching of Christ a little wider too so I've never found the Catholic Church teaching against holy scripture.

Metal Minister, what do you teach your congregation?
 
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Root of Jesse

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If the shoe fits...But it is different depending on denomination. Or, if we interpret what you define, you will say, no, that's not what we mean. So it remains as defined by those places we can refer to.

I understand! Turn it around. We define Catholic things, and refer to the CCC, and you don't understand them, too. It's not a one-way criticism...
 
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Metal Minister

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So basically you have a statement on the canon. You'll have to be more specific on your question.
 
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MoreCoffee

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So basically you have a statement on the canon. You'll have to be more specific on your question.

Okay.

You said: Considering many of them (RCC Dogmas) either go against scripture or scripture is utterly silent on them, I think there's little chance of that

And I asked: Metal Minister, what do you teach your congregation?

I am asking about what you teach on the matters mentioned in what you said.
 
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Metal Minister

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I do not teach the Marian dogmas, papal supremacy or infallibility, transubstantiation, indulgences, etc. I teach what is found within the pages of scripture that everyone accepts, not the additional books the RCC added to prop up some of the above doctrines. Beyond that you need to be more specific. I'm honestly not going to dig back through this thread for the context of your quote of me. I do not have the time.
 
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Root of Jesse

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I'd like to see you prove that the RCC added anything, as opposed to the Reform movement excising them...
 
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barryatlake

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Metal Minister, Sola Scriptura is unbiblical.

Sola Scriptura Is Unbiblical

If “the Bible and nothing else” is all that is necessary for faith and practice, then the Bible ought to make this doctrine clear, or at least imply this teaching at some point. The facts are otherwise: Scripture neither says nor implies that it alone is all that is necessary for faith and practice. Citations of Scripture’s “proving” sola scriptura read into Scripture an intention that is not there. Thus, many arguments for sola scriptura will quote something like Deut. 4:2—”you shall not add to the word which I command you, nor take from it”—to claim that Scripture alone is sufficient and that anything outside of what is written in Scripture cannot be God’s Word or revelation. Such arguments neglect to note however that, logically applied, this claim means that the biblical books written after Deuteronomy are also “additions” to God’s revelation.

Others will cite 2 Tim. 3:16 to claim that Scripture is a totally sufficient source of revelation. Here again, this neglects the question immediately raised by such a verse: Granting that “all Scripture is God-breathed,” how do we know which books are inspired Scripture and which books are not? At the time 2 Timothy was composed, not all the New Testament books had even been written. By the time all the books of the New Testament were written, they were being circulated along with numerous other books and epistles of varying quality, all of which vied for the attention of the early Christians. If the “sufficiency” of Scripture of which Paul speaks is a total sufficiency, Scripture should somehow be able to answer the question, “How do you tell which books are inspired Scripture and which aren’t?” But, in fact, Scripture does not do this, a fact attested by the different collections of “recognized” scriptural books which existed in the different early Christian Church communities. Similarly, even today different Christians have different canons or collections of Scripture.

The “sufficiency of Scripture” of which Paul speaks is not, in fact, “formal” or total sufficiency. On the contrary, Scripture assumes that the written portion of apostolic Tradition is only “materially” sufficient revelation, and that the Church will rely on two additional authoritative sources to fully discern God’s revelation: sacred Tradition and the Magisterium or teaching office of the Church.

The difference between formal and material sufficiency is the difference between having a brick house and having a big enough pile of bricks to build a house. Drawing on this analogy, Christ the Master Builder uses the mortar of Tradition and the trowel of the Magisterium to build His brick house of revelation from a mere pile of bricks (Mt. 16:18, Eph. 2:19-22; 1 Tim. 3:15). It is these three elements together—written Tradition (that is, Scripture), unwritten Tradition, and the Magisterium—that hand down the fullness of revelation, who is Jesus Christ.

This is the biblical witness as well. When the circumcision crisis arose around 40 A.D., there was, on a sola scriptura basis, an enormous amount of biblical precedent for the idea that Gentiles who wished to become Christians must be circumcised. After all,

a) everybody from the time of Abraham, including our Lord and His apostles, had received circumcision, as God Himself had commanded (Gen. 17);

b) this requirement had always included Gentile converts to the Covenant People, as God Himself had also commanded (Ex. 12:48); and

c) Our Lord had never clearly abolished this requirement but had rather insisted that “till heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass from the law until all is accomplished” (Mt. 5:18).

Nonetheless, the Church concluded that circumcision was unnecessary for Gentiles to become Christians. How? By the clear recognition that the full teaching of Christ is obtained, not merely by reliance on the “Bible and nothing else,” but by reading the Bible in the context of her sacred Tradition, which is the common life, common teaching, and common worship of the apostolic Church (cf. Acts 2:42).

What the Church did was hold a council—the Council of Jerusalem (Acts 15)—so that the Magisterium of the Church, i.e., the Apostles, their successors, and other Christian leaders, could examine not only Scripture but the full apostolic Tradition of the Church, both written and unwritten, and render an authoritative decision. At the Council, the Church sifted the whole of the apostolic message—not just the written part—and eventually concluded that, despite what Scripture alone appeared to say, the reality was that the New Covenant of Christ did not require circumcision for Gentile converts.

In fact, Scripture is treated by the Council of Jerusalem exactly as the Catholic Church still treats it today: as the written portion, not the totality, of God’s revelation. Revelation is not a one-legged stool of Scripture alone, but a three-legged stool of written Tradition, unwritten Tradition and the Magisterium. This is why St. Paul tells the Thessalonians to “hold fast to the traditions which you were taught by us, either by word of mouth or by letter” (2 Thess. 2:15). These are the first two legs of the stool. The Council of Jerusalem also illustrates why Paul appointed bishops, among them Timothy and Titus, to “guard the truth that has been entrusted to you by the Holy Spirit who dwells within us” (2 Tim. 1:14), for they constitute the essential third leg. Taken together, this three-legged stool gives us a sure basis for discerning authentic apostolic teaching. “Tradition” per se is not condemned by either Jesus or the Apostles. Rather, it is only the “traditions of men” they condemned.

Source; Catholics United for the Faith
 
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Metal Minister

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*sigh* as I asked others, what is the sound of one hand clapping? This piece is a travesty of misrepresentation, and is as one sided an affair as I've seen in a while...

Add this to your list of sources please!

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sou...Antc_po02cVxLIaiA&sig2=6msyqf1QFQY3WXyTqZtkQw
 
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