Define outside of time

[Resha Caner]

I think those who employ the phrase mean to say God is not controlled by time, not limited by time, something like that. I guess it's up to them to explain what they mean.

But, just to be clear, not all theists would say God is outside time. I would agree it's a meaningless phrase.

 

[2PhiloVoid]

I think those who employ the phrase mean to say God is not controlled by time, not limited by time, something like that. I guess it's up to them to explain what they mean.

But, just to be clear, not all theists would say God is outside time. I would agree it's a meaningless phrase.

I like to think of God as being in eternal existence, with our universe being a kind of spherical, physical displacement within His eternal being.

 

[Resha Caner]

I like to think of God as being in eternal existence, with our universe being a kind of spherical, physical displacement within His eternal being.

I don't know if I like your phrasing. It's a bit too speculative - too much a word salad. But, what you say sounds similar to panentheism:

Panentheism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I always find myself riding the fence on panentheism. I can't totally dismiss it, yet can't totally accept it.

 

[Paradoxum]

Are you saying god exists outside of all events in life? What is the point of him then if he does not even exist in our dimension/universe whatever?

I think you can see why I am so confused.

I don't understand what you don't understand about it.

Time means that things change. God being timeless means that He doesn't change... including thoughts and actions.

That doesn't mean God has no thoughts, and doesn't act though. It just means they all exist and happen at once.

God would still be able to interact with the universe, because He would know all of the past and future, and act in one timeless instant.

I don't believe in God, and I don't know if the conception of God is possible, but it sort of makes sense to me.

 

[2PhiloVoid]

I don't know if I like your phrasing. It's a bit too speculative - too much a word salad. But, what you say sounds similar to panentheism:

Panentheism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I always find myself riding the fence on panentheism. I can't totally dismiss it, yet can't totally accept it.

Sure, I'm with you there. I only mention this perspective in a hypothetical sense, not a dogmatic one, but it sounds better than saying, "Our universe popped out of nothing via Quantum Fluctuations." From a simple, Biblical perspective, we don't have much information that would tell us (in a scientific mode) about God's nature in connection to time and space. We know He's eternal and omnipresent, but that's not saying a whole lot that is rationally explicable to the human mind.

With due respect - 2PhiloVoid

 

[juvenissun]

A being cannot control something within that something? If I am inside a machine, is it impossible to affect how that machine is run?

The existence of those people are still in time, they just went backwards in time. Unless they stopped existing for a time, and then came back into existence.

If the machine is made by you for a purpose, you probably don't want to interfere its running even you can.

God creates time. And time works fine.

 

[Davian]

If the machine is made by you for a purpose, you probably don't want to interfere its running even you can.

God creates time. And time works fine.

How long did your God wait until before creating time?

 

[Tree of Life]

Time is either something created by God, an aspect of God himself, or a non-entity.

Of the three I might say that time is an aspect of God himself. All measurements of time are relative to the eternity of God. He is the ancient one. His days have no end. His work sets the model for time - creating in six days and resting on the seventh. So when we talk about time, we're actually talking about God in a roundabout way.

 

[DogmaHunter]

I don't agree with the definition of eternity being a noun or time when it comes to the Absolute I AM.

Right, right...

That's what we call""special pleading".

The Trinity facilitates the Fathers escape from the inherent fetors of personality absolutism. The Sons of God do function in time. God the Supreme is God evolving in Time and Space.

Word salad.

 

[DogmaHunter]

You can't divide infinity; mathematically it's undefined and meaningless, so it's not time.

This is absolute rubbish. Math can and does deal with infinities all the time. It's not undefined and it's not meaningless at all.

 

[bhsmte]

I don't know if I like your phrasing. It's a bit too speculative - too much a word salad. But, what you say sounds similar to panentheism:

Panentheism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I always find myself riding the fence on panentheism. I can't totally dismiss it, yet can't totally accept it.

Isn't everything speculative when it comes to defining a God?

 

[DogmaHunter]

The time status of God the Absolute is 0. His created beings who think sequentially are conscious of what we call time but its us that does the measuring, but we would be measuring the circle of Eternity, Infinity, where would we start on the circle and where would we stop to get a time measurement?

Remember, "within him we live, move and have our being."

Consider that verb you used which I put in bold.

That word is an action. It's a temporal action. It implies subjection to time. First there is the decision to act, then there is the act itself and then there is the result of the act. Those are sequential events that are implied by the verb "to create".

If your god engaged in that act, then your god is subject to time and not "outside" of it.

You can't have your pie and eat it too.

 

[DogmaHunter]

It means that He exists on another plane or dimension of existence

Interesting. So where did that plain of existence come from?

I've asked theists this before (without receiving answers). Oftenly, they'll fall back on the "god because the universe had to be created" or one of that MANY variations of that argument. But it all comes down to the same: the universe exists and needs an explanation and that explanation is god.

So if this god exists on some other plain of existence, wouldn't that plain require an explanation just as well? Wouldn't that god existing in that realm require an explanation just as well?

Usually, that's when the special pleading begins. So surprise me.

 

[DogmaHunter]

If the machine is made by you for a purpose, you probably don't want to interfere its running even you can.

Right, because machines never require interference...

 

[Viren]

Consider that verb you used which I put in bold.

That word is an action. It's a temporal action. It implies subjection to time. First there is the decision to act, then there is the act itself and then there is the result of the act. Those are sequential events that are implied by the verb "to create".

If your god engaged in that act, then your god is subject to time and not "outside" of it.

You can't have your pie and eat it too.

Just because God has the ability to create does not make God a finite temporal being that is subject to time.

 

[juvenissun]

How long did your God wait until before creating time?

Is this question stupid or what?
How much money do you have if you don't have any money?

 

[Davian]

Is this question stupid or what?
How much money do you have if you don't have any money?

The question is a stupid as your statement that your "God creates time".

"Do" is an action; actions take place over time; how can a "timeless" thingamahoozy do anything? It would be like a bug trapped in amber.

 

[durangodawood]

The question is a stupid as your statement that your "God creates time".

"Do" is an action; actions take place over time; how can a "timeless" thingamahoozy do anything? It would be like a bug trapped in amber.

But maybe God is outside time by virtue of existing in infinite time dimensions, rather than none.

???

 

[Davian]

But maybe God is outside time by virtue of existing in infinite time dimensions, rather than none.

???

Sure. Given that much leeway, I could tell you how to build a warp-driven starship right out Star Trek.

 

[durangodawood]

Sure. Given that much leeway, I could tell you how to build a warp-driven starship right out Star Trek.

But this is about whats possible, and not just about whats intelligible.