Define "marriage"

[blackribbon]

What are we "protecting" the spouses from? Shouldn't those decisions be made BEFORE you get married? Do I trust my potential spouse with everything...absolutely everything? I mean if we are to trust our Bodies to each other (1 Cor 7), wouldn't finances be even lower on the priority totem pole?

Money is only a tool. It isn't supposed to be the prize.

 

[exitstageright]

Now to be fair, AV...a marriage can last that long still if both people are committed to making it work. It would require you do your homework (and premarital counseling) before you say "I do" to make sure both people have the same expectations and goals.

If well all lived in an ideal world ,this would work. Before I married my second wife, she insisted that we take a premarital compatability test.

Our scores were 80% spiritualy compatable ,and 90% financially compatable. She said that she loved our church's Drama Ministry ,just like me.She said that she loved to travel, just like me.

Well,after we were married ,she told me that she no longer felt that the Drama Ministry was her calling.

One day, while packing for our Hawaiian trip, I was playing some Hawaiian music in the house. She screamed at me," Turn that music off!" I told her that I was playing Hawaiian music just to get into the "Hawaiian Mood". She said," I hate packing! I would rather stay home! The only time that you want to get romantic is when we go on vacation!"

We had the same goals. She just changed her goals after we got married.

So, I guess it is a woman's prerogative to change her mind after she gets married.

By the way,the reason I am more romantic on vacation was the fact that while on vacation,I was not being stressed out on my job by arrogant doctors, with very,very,very, big egos and by some demanding nurses.

 

[exitstageright]

From an article I read:


Marriage is the unification of two halves into one complete entity, described as "one flesh.”
It's not just poetics.
What is my commitment to my hand?
I am not committed to my hand. I am my hand. My commitment to my hand is one I'd reconsider if it became gangrenous, and I was left with no choice but amputation.
But I wouldn't reconsider my commitment to my hand if it were broken, or ugly, or if I met someone with a nicer hand. If your hand is killing you – then you get rid of it. The commitment of marriage is until it's killing you.
Divorce is appropriate when the marriage has become an abusive, destructive relationship that can't be cured. Amputation is never casual. Often people get divorced because they simply get bored with each other. The marriage goes stale and flat. "We don’t laugh like we used to anymore."

If someone told you that he was amputating his hand because "The fun went out of it" you'd say he's nuts. Marriage is exactly the same.


Rabbi Dan Silverman

Whenever someone asks me,"Where is your other half?" I always reply."There is no other half. I am a ......whole person!"

This,"You complete me" nonsense is just a bunch of Hollywood Bull. It is a fairy tale!

 

[exitstageright]

Would you marry someone with a pre-nup? Doesn't that basically mean I promise to love you with everything but my money? Can a pre-nup be part of a Christian union?

A pre-nup is just marriage insurance.

As an analogy, I did not buy fire insurance for my home ,hopping or expexcting my home to burn down. I bought fire insurance just in case my home burns down.

If I was wealthy,I would definitely get a pre-nup. Because, even though she is a Christian woman, she ....is......still....a.....woman.

In my experiences,the only difference in a Christian woman,and a non-Christian woman,is that the christain woman is saved.

 

[blackribbon]

Hopefully, the difference between the Christian woman and the non-saved one is more significant than that.

Your second wife was bi-polar and that was her disease talking. I really wasn't talking about a compatiblity test but rather some serious pre-marital counseling since love isn't enough.

If my house burns down, insurance builds me a new one....if my marriage fails, a pre-nup doesn't repair my heart or build me a new relationship. So...not the same. It is a document protecting your money from the "person you can't live without"...which sounds like you aren't truly vested in making sure it works.

 

[blackribbon]

As for completing each other, I had that with my husband and it made it very hard after he died. The best way to describe it was I felt like that big ball of christmas lights where you can't tell where one strand ends and the other one begins. There wasn't even a clean split down the middle...it was a very messy separation of identities.

 

[iambren]

I think that's why it's hard for some to remarry--they have been exposed to the bare vulnerability that it is to be truly "one" with another. When a spouse goes off the tracks it's not "He is off" but "We are off" and WE need to find a way to save our marriage!

I was hurt most by my first and last marriage. The first because I wanted to live in the blessing of ONE marriage for lifetime,but her manic destructiveness of our home(breaking dishes and lamps ea 2 weeks) and her disco inspired affair left me shredded emotionally.

The last was entered through prayer,counseling,fasting,a long courtship,and a deep assurance that we loved another and can build a home. Sexual rejection and hatefulness over 15 years led to it's demise.

So now who do I trust;it seems I would do just as good putting my thumb out along the road to see who picked me up. I WANT to be married and share a life together. I want God in that union. Sure we are imperfect,I can work with that,but am I asking too much to have one without the chaos?

 

[Elderado]

From an article I read:


Marriage is the unification of two halves into one complete entity, described as "one flesh.”
It's not just poetics.
What is my commitment to my hand?
I am not committed to my hand. I am my hand. My commitment to my hand is one I'd reconsider if it became gangrenous, and I was left with no choice but amputation.
But I wouldn't reconsider my commitment to my hand if it were broken, or ugly, or if I met someone with a nicer hand. If your hand is killing you – then you get rid of it. The commitment of marriage is until it's killing you.
Divorce is appropriate when the marriage has become an abusive, destructive relationship that can't be cured. Amputation is never casual. Often people get divorced because they simply get bored with each other. The marriage goes stale and flat. "We don’t laugh like we used to anymore."

If someone told you that he was amputating his hand because "The fun went out of it" you'd say he's nuts. Marriage is exactly the same.


Rabbi Dan Silverman

I guess I have amputated both of my hands and I'm completely nuts.

 

[blackribbon]

I believe in marriage but I am starting to wonder if maybe we shouldn't be hungering for that kind of relationship so much. I've messed up enough in the couple relationships I've had since my hubby died to know that it isn't easy to merge to older adults. It isn't easy and when you think you are merging to people who are fairly set in their ways and mindset, maybe the chance for success isn't very high. Maybe we should be focusing on building strong friendships...especially same sex ones to address the loneliness that exists out in the world. (Opposite sex ones get complicated because if they are single, then their sexual expectation get mixed in the mixed and if they are married, well that is risky business even if it is just an "emotional" affair.)

 

[Doctor Strangelove]

Do people expect too much of marriage? One hears a lot of talk about "soul mates" and wanting to be perfectly understood by one's partner and so on. Now, I have a limited perspective, as my relationships didn't last for years and years and I have never been married so nothing reached that level of commitment. But being misunderstood sometimes (that can be painful), disagreements, negotiating things are a normal part of life.

 

[blackribbon]

I believe that soul mates are made, not "born"....and you get there by doing a lot of work. I do believe that our modern expectations are all out of whack...we go into marriage to get something out of it when really, we have new responsibility and something we now owe to another human being. However, unless both parties realize this, maybe we are somewhat doomed to fail.

 

[memoriesbymichelle]

Sometimes I think we put too much stock in trusting our partner. We should be trusting in God because He is our Savior. We can never truly know another person 100 percent but if we are lucky we might get to experience very deep intimacy in marriage.
Sometimes I think some people want to be married so badly they make that their end all be all and when/if they DO get married, their spouse becomes their end all be all and that is part of the problem.
We depend on God because we cannot depend on others, and we cannot depend on ourselves.
If we go into a marriage thinking that this other person will "make us happy" we are starting out with a wrong mindset. We have to be happy enough ourselves so that it flows out to our spouse or other people. If we are deplete of it in our selves, how can we be successful in marriage or any relationship?

I used to believe in the soul mate thing, but now I don't. I think there are enough people in the world that there are many varieties of peoples that any number of them could "complete us". I want someone that can compliment me and that I could do the same for them. I don't mean say something nice to me, I mean compliment me as a person and vise versa, like making a good team, or good partnership.

 

[dayhiker]

I agree that any number of women out there can complete me ....

 

[blackribbon]

I agree that any number of women out there can complete me ....

But the harder job is that you need to be able to complete them...

 

[dayhiker]

That is true .... What I do is tell them what I can give them and then they can decide if its what they want or not.

 

[memoriesbymichelle]

That is true .... What I do is tell them what I can give them and then they can decide if its what they want or not.

You are starting to make me curious about your telling them what you can give them. Like what, you say "I can give you a back rub once a week I can go on vacation with you BUT.....????

can you give an example that does not include sex?

 

[iambren]

No...sex is about it. Otherwise why bother.

 

[blackribbon]

No...sex is about it. Otherwise why bother.

Sex isn't usually enough to complete anyone. I need to feel completed to have sex with someone. Yeah, the girl in me is definitely coming out.

 

[dayhiker]

Good question, Michelle.
I tell them how much time I can give them. How often I can be in contact with them. With B it was that I could take a vacation with her in 5 months. Work ended up forcing it to be 6 months. Within 5 days together B said she was willing to move locally with the idea that we would get married. I told her I wasn't ready to get married. After a few weekends together I knew she was so intense and over the top that I didn't see how I could live with her. So I told her that. She didn't like hearing that, but I wasn't leading her on with her thinking that even tho we have been getting closer and love each other more that we were on a path to get married. I've also told her what about our relationship is working. She is a planner and on a couple of occasions has her heart all set on us doing something that I've not signed up for. What she wanted to do wasn't going to work for me so I said no. She was quite hurt that I said no. So I had to tell her not to have her heart set on something till I say I will do it. Cause one I say I'll do something I'll do it with her.

In general we are older and know what we can give and what we want in a relationship. So why wouldn't we let someone we are interested in know this is what I can give you. I work this many hours, I have this much vacation, I can spend this much money, I want to go to this type of church, I like to walk/hike. If we both have something in interest lets do it together and be a friend to each other.

At first is was hard for me to have those conversations. But I've found them to be very healthy. The other person knows who I am and what I'll give to them. If they change the rules later, I can say, OH I like that, ya lets do that also. If I just can't do it, I have already told them what I can give and I can go back and say I've said I can give you X, I'm sorry, but I can't do that. I'm not upset they asked for more, I don't hold it against them. Its protected me from being pushed into doing things I don't want to do.

You are starting to make me curious about your telling them what you can give them. Like what, you say "I can give you a back rub once a week I can go on vacation with you BUT.....????

can you give an example that does not include sex?

 

[blackribbon]

I wish more men and women were like you, Dayhiker. That sounds so healthy. Reality is that most people won't believe those boundaries though and will think that they can change them.