defending your views

[Jro]

He's just stating an opinion about GAY MARRIAGE. He isn't saying gays are evil or should be shot or don't deserve our respect, his opinion is on that of the definition of marriage and what it represents as an institution.

"I mean, yeah, ok, Civil War's over and we can't change the legislation, but I still think black people should be slaves. That's just my opinion!"

 

[TheyCallMeDave]

And I already explained this. Reason one pretends that the love two gay people feel for each other is somehow not serious. This is offensive, utterly lacking in compassion and seriously denigrating towards gays and lesbian couples. People should jump down his throat for it.

Hi Tom,

I dont think anyone is denying that there is love between two homosexual partners...its just that it is a wrong kind of love. There are essentially 3 forms of love and they are : Phileo which is brotherly and sisterly love... the kind you have for a good friend of the same sex and opposite sex , Eros love which is romantic love...the kind of love that has passion in it as in romance and often the sexual, and Agapa love which is the highest form of love because it is totally unconditional and often undeserving such as the love that God has for his created Beings.

So, as you can see, with homosexuality...there is a confusion on the love issue ; it is twisted because it has eros love entertwined with it when it should only be Phileo type love. The reasons can be many, but the most common reason is a relationship-deficiency between the Person and his/her same sex Parent. This is totally repairable just as any other wayward addiction is ; sure it takes work, discipline, etc...to get Ones sexual identity back on track but Gods power accomplishes it all the time. In fact, he did it for me ; I used to be a Sexual Hedonist thinking very poorly of women in general until i became a devoted Follower of Christ and asked for Gods power to heal me. Healing is also available for the Homosexual but the problem today is, the practicing Homosexual can round up a plethera of People support so approval of the adverse behavior keeps the Person in bondage to it . There has to be a deliberate desire to want to get right ... not only for the persons own sake but to restore the relationship between the person and God . Thats what really matters...not the liberal amoral Society that could care less about the Homosexual (which cheers him/her onward to greater lifestyle danger and perversion) .

Have you any followup questions for me based on what ive shared here ? Thanks, david.

 

[Tomk80]

Hi Tom,

I dont think anyone is denying that there is love between two homosexual partners...its just that it is a wrong kind of love. There are essentially 3 forms of love and they are : Phileo which is brotherly and sisterly love... the kind you have for a good friend of the same sex and opposite sex , Eros love which is romantic love...the kind of love that has passion in it as in romance and often the sexual, and Agapa love which is the highest form of love because it is totally unconditional and often undeserving such as the love that God has for his created Beings.

So, as you can see, with homosexuality...there is a confusion on the love issue ; it is twisted because it has eros love entertwined with it when it should only be Phileo type love. The reasons can be many, but the most common reason is a relationship-deficiency between the Person and his/her same sex Parent. This is totally repairable just as any other wayward addiction is ; sure it takes work, discipline, etc...to get Ones sexual identity back on track but Gods power accomplishes it all the time. In fact, he did it for me ; I used to be a Sexual Hedonist thinking very poorly of women in general until i became a devoted Follower of Christ and asked for Gods power to heal me. Healing is also available for the Homosexual but the problem today is, the practicing Homosexual can round up a plethera of People support so approval of the adverse behavior keeps the Person in bondage to it . There has to be a deliberate desire to want to get right ... not only for the persons own sake but to restore the relationship between the person and God . Thats what really matters...not the liberal amoral Society that could care less about the Homosexual (which cheers him/her onward to greater lifestyle danger and perversion) .

Have you any followup questions for me based on what ive shared here ? Thanks, david.

Read back what you wrote and tell me with a straight you really do not see how offensive it is. You are basically denying what these people feel for each other and describing it as if it is some sort of illness. And you want to be treated with respect for that kind of view?

 

[bricklayer]

Actually, Marriage has not been a religious institution for all of human history... in fact, marriage far predates Christianity and Judaism.

Likewise, from a government point of view, you don't need to follow any particular religion to get married. Therefore, withholding the rights of people because they don't agree with your particular religion is absurd.

Your church should not be forced to marry people it is bigoted against... however, the government should have no such restriction.

The first marriage was Adam and Eve.

 

[Paradoxum]

I would consider post #32 is an example of a person with liberal views being intolerant of other views

K

Ok, show why. Quote me, and show me which bits are intolerant, and why.

You'd better reply, and with with substance, if you're accusing me on that.

 

[Dave Ellis]

No...i dont feel like shrinking back from sharing my Biblical Views on issues , because it is wrong to be manipulated into keeping quiet on immoral and unethical lifestyles and ideologies that set themselves up against Christ. Its all part of being persecuted for the cause of Christ ..and theres nothing more liberal-Amoralists would like than not to be challenged and opposed ; in fact, the primary agenda is to have everyone be tolerant of whatever THEY want to do and if you go against the grain then suddenly youve become 'a Bigot' , 'Intolerant', and a (rediculously misapplied) 'Phobe' . Im pleased to wear that label if thats what it takes . Its high-time Christians started flexing their muscle toward anti-Godly philosophies of our time.

In fact, i wish a couple of highly vocal / proactive National Christian Leaders would gather Christian Troops together from around the Nation to wage a war on the perverted / reprobated minded issues of our day. Christians arent supposed to be weak-willed ; they are supposed to have courage , vision with necessary action , love, power, and be of a sound mind. The Christian Community has become too nice and too tolerant nowadays.

Oh please... People who identify themselves as Christians make up 73% of the population of the United States.... Please drop the "persecution" crap, you make up a super-majority, you are not being persecuted.

Likewise, using the constitution to stop people of your religion from oppressing other people is not persecuting you.

This government is set up to represent people of all races and religious views. What your religion says is not grounds or justification to deny people rights in a free society. If your church doesn't want to marry gay people, that's their right. But they have no right to dictate to other organizations or the government who they should and should not marry.

 

[Dave Ellis]

The first marriage was Adam and Eve.

There's no record of Adam and Eve ever getting married in the bible.... I imagine they'd have a difficult time finding someone to marry them as well.

 

[bricklayer]

There's no record of Adam and Eve ever getting married in the bible.... I imagine they'd have a difficult time finding someone to marry them as well.

Who chooses whom? does the bride choose the groom? Does the groom choose the bride? Or, does the Father choose the bride for the groom?
Who chooses whom?

God presented Eve to Adam and set forth the critrea for marriage.

 

[GNJ]

Hi Tom,

I dont think anyone is denying that there is love between two homosexual partners...its just that it is a wrong kind of love.

You are all kinds of wrong

 

[Ken-1122]

Ok, show why. Quote me, and show me which bits are intolerant, and why.

You'd better reply, and with with substance, if you're accusing me on that.

Opps! My bad; I meant post #37.

K

 

[Dave Ellis]

Who chooses whom? does the bride choose the groom? Does the groom choose the bride? Or, does the Father choose the bride for the groom?
Who chooses whom?

God presented Eve to Adam and set forth the critrea for marriage.

In modern society, the bride and groom choose each other.

Apparently you still believe in the Christian tradition of the wife being property of her husband and arranged marriages. I'm sorry to hear that.

 

[GoldenBoy89]

Do you ever find that if you try to defend your views against liberals they jump on you, complaining that you are intolerant, while they themselves are totally intolerant of your views?

There goes the 'L' word.....
You've primed me into thinking you are intolerant of anyone simply by their political views..... Great job on that
Why is it that 'liberal' is synonymous with 'anyone opposing my own views' round these parts?
Anyways,

Someone asked my opinion on gay marriage and I said that I didn't agree with it, as it lessens the seriousness of marriage and isn't good for society. Of course everyone jumped down my throat and had a huge go at me and ridiculed me, calling me intolerant, juvenile and an idiot.

You are rightfully entitled to your opinion, whatever it may be. But don't be surprised when you meet someone with a different POV. And don't label someone as a liberal because they support gay marriage. Conservatives can support equality too, you know..

 

[Cjwinnit]

Apparently you still believe in the Christian tradition of the wife being property of her husband.

This has never ever been true in the Christian church. Total, total rubbish.

 

[Ken-1122]

And don't label someone as a liberal because they support gay marriage. Conservatives can support equality too, you know..

Really!!???

 

[Dave Ellis]

This has never ever been true in the Christian church. Total, total rubbish.

I recommend you read your bible then.... It'll tell you all about how women are subservient to men.

The tradition of a father "giving away the bride" at weddings is called that for a reason.... At one point, it was actually considered a transfer of property from Father to Husband.

 

[Cjwinnit]

I recommend you read your bible then.... It'll tell you all about how women are subservient to men.

Rubbish.

The tradition of a father "giving away the bride" at weddings is called that for a reason.... At one point, it was actually considered a transfer of property from Father to Husband.

Every single marriage liturgy in the Church of england has a part where the bride and groom are asked if they want to get married.

Tell me: do you ask a Mars bar if it wants to be bought?

Foolish presumption - read a prayer book.

 

[Dave Ellis]

Rubbish.

Rubbish, eh?

I guess the Church of England must use a different bible than the other Christians. Because in the Bible I'm aware of, these verses (and more) can be found....

Genesis 3:16 - Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee.

1 Corinthians 11:3 - But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God.

1 Corinthians 14:34-36 - Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience as also saith the law. And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church

Ephesians 5:22-24 - Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as unto the Lord. For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body. Therefore as the church is subject unto Christ, so let the wives be to their own husbands in every thing.

Colossians 3:18 - Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as it is fit in the Lord.

1 Timothy 2:11-15 - Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection. But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence. For Adam was first formed, then Eve. And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression. Notwithstanding she shall be saved in childbearing.

Titus 2:4-5 - Teach the young women to be ... obedient to their own husbands, that the word of God be not blasphemed.

1 Peter 3:1 - Likewise, ye wives, be in subjection to your own husbands.


Does that sound like Women are equal to Men to you? As I said, try reading your Bible.

Every single marriage liturgy in the Church of england has a part where the bride and groom are asked if they want to get married.

Tell me: do you ask a Mars bar if it wants to be bought?

Foolish presumption - read a prayer book.

Deuteronomy 22:28-29 - If a man find a damsel that is a virgin, which is not betrothed, and lay hold on her, and lie with her, and they be found; Then the man that lay with her shall give unto the damsel's father fifty shekels of silver, and she shall be his wife; because he hath humbled her, he may not put her away all his days

This is an example of the property status of women... If you were to rape a woman, you have to take her as your wife and pay her father 50 shekels of Silver in compensation for what essentially amounts to property damage.

Notice, this passage says nothing about compensation to the woman...

Just because the marriage ceremony in your particular church involves asking both people if they want to marry each other, does not change the underlying status of Women in your churches holy book. It's quite clear they are second class to Men.

 

[Cjwinnit]

Rubbish, eh?

.....

Does that sound like Women are equal to Men to you? As I said, try reading your Bible.

Yes it does - you deliberately didn't quote anythig which implied men were to submit, which it does. Also, you didn't mention how the entire human race is equally corrupted, both male and female, and that we need a saviour. It's called proof-texting.

So you ignore everything the Bible has to say about men submitting and you expect me to accept your incomplete view of Scripture? Not going to happen.

Just because the marriage ceremony in your particular church involves asking both people if they want to marry each other, does not change the underlying status of Women in your churches holy book.

Actually it does. And you didn't take me up on the offer, did you? Cause you know I'm right?

It's quite clear they are second class to Men.

It's you who says that, not me. I think men and women are co-inheritors.

 

[Gadarene]

Hi Tom,

I dont think anyone is denying that there is love between two homosexual partners...its just that it is a wrong kind of love. There are essentially 3 forms of love and they are : Phileo which is brotherly and sisterly love... the kind you have for a good friend of the same sex and opposite sex , Eros love which is romantic love...the kind of love that has passion in it as in romance and often the sexual, and Agapa love which is the highest form of love because it is totally unconditional and often undeserving such as the love that God has for his created Beings.

So, as you can see, with homosexuality...there is a confusion on the love issue ; it is twisted because it has eros love entertwined with it when it should only be Phileo type love. The reasons can be many, but the most common reason is a relationship-deficiency between the Person and his/her same sex Parent. This is totally repairable just as any other wayward addiction is ; sure it takes work, discipline, etc...to get Ones sexual identity back on track but Gods power accomplishes it all the time. In fact, he did it for me ; I used to be a Sexual Hedonist thinking very poorly of women in general until i became a devoted Follower of Christ and asked for Gods power to heal me. Healing is also available for the Homosexual but the problem today is, the practicing Homosexual can round up a plethera of People support so approval of the adverse behavior keeps the Person in bondage to it . There has to be a deliberate desire to want to get right ... not only for the persons own sake but to restore the relationship between the person and God . Thats what really matters...not the liberal amoral Society that could care less about the Homosexual (which cheers him/her onward to greater lifestyle danger and perversion) .

Have you any followup questions for me based on what ive shared here ? Thanks, david.

Hint: try talking to gay people to find out what their feelings are, rather than projecting your opinion of what their feelings are onto them.

 

[David Brider]

Hi Tom,

I dont think anyone is denying that there is love between two homosexual partners...its just that it is a wrong kind of love.

Really? As far as I can tell, there's no difference between the love my wife and I have for each other, and the love people in same-sex couples have for each other.

David.