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Defending a religious person...

Discussion in 'Ethics & Morality' started by Hestha, Jan 30, 2013.

  1. variant

    variant Happy Cat

    +4,084
    Agnostic
    Single
    You can feel free claim to understand things you have no ability to articulate but it's not going to stand up to scrutiny.

    I've been asking you to own your opinions, not promiceing that I am not going to claim your opinions nonsense.

    I do want an answer.

    Your answer was just a bunch of double talk that didn't address the question except to dismiss it without reason (or as stated with faulty reasoning like you don't have a religion).

    Try it again:

    What does your religion teach happens to those without faith?
     
    Last edited: Feb 6, 2013
  2. seeking Christ

    seeking Christ Guest

    +0
    Why do you think our language has words like "ineffable?" Look, if you're going to use Biblical words and concepts and then ask me about them, I have no duty to forfeit what they mean just because you came along WAY later. Also, I was not aware that the purpose of my existence was to bow before YOUR scrutiny. Tell ya what, if that changes you'll be the first to know, but don't go holding your breath.

    Not the honest one. You only want confirmation of your pre-existing bias. No apologies for failing there.
     
  3. variant

    variant Happy Cat

    +4,084
    Agnostic
    Single
    Because there are religious people such as yourself. I tend to criticize them.

    The reason you cant explain such ideas is because you don't understand them. No claim is made otherwise, the god concept you adhere to is incomprehensible nonsense.

    I'm asking you how why and what questions about your religion, not asking you to describe a sunset.

    It is not in evidence that you have a better understanding, that is just your assertion.

    Your the one who says common understandings of words are wrong, so you need to justify why we should accept your language or atleast have the common decency to define your terms in earnest before going off on linguistic revere.

    Any direct answer would do. All you do is dodge the question.

    And no, I'm not redefining half the words in English so you can feel better about yourself.
     
    Last edited: Feb 6, 2013
  4. seeking Christ

    seeking Christ Guest

    +0
    [QUOTE=variant
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 6, 2013
  5. seeking Christ

    seeking Christ Guest

    +0
    While I'm attacked on all sides here, these are words from an atheist who makes my point for me:

     
  6. Gadarene

    Gadarene -______-

    +2,447
    Atheist
    In Relationship
    UK-Labour
    Thank you.

    I once polled another forum (which was a lot more religiously diverse than CF) and asked them what they thought of certain Christians trying desperately to avoid association with the term "religion".

    In short, to many outside of Christianity, it just comes across as rather pathetic snobbery. Leaving your excellent point about these sorts of metalanguages making Christianity unapproachable to those outside of it aside momentarily, it also just makes the Christianity these people represent look snooty and unpalatable.

    I'm sure there are many Christians who are secure enough in their beliefs that they aren't frantically trying to rewrite the dictionary to bolster them.
     
  7. Lee M

    Lee M Well-Known Member

    +7
    Deist
    Single
    This ^
     
  8. variant

    variant Happy Cat

    +4,084
    Agnostic
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    Until you demonstrate that you do in fact have a coherent concept it's a pretty good bet.

    A word salad is something that lacks meaning.

    My meaning when I say you have a God concept is:

    Concept of God. Idea of God. Conception of God. What you mean when you say the word God.

    You may have an incoherent one, but you definitely intend to mean something when you talk about God.

    Neither do you by your own admission.

    Demonstrate otherwise.

    I mean, how am I supposed to access knowledge of something you can only present incoherently.

    Facts are what can be demonstrated logically or empirically. Please point out the facts that are getting in my way.

    What answer?

    The only thing you have done in this thread is make yourself into a exemplary case study about how people can hide behind semantical obfuscation and linguistic trickery to confuse straight forward rational issues.

    Others will catch on faster now to this subtle fraudulent manipulation that makes some people act like authorities when they have very few cogent thoughts to back up their claims.

    Thanks.
     
    Last edited: Feb 6, 2013
  9. seeking Christ

    seeking Christ Guest

    +0
    What I may drive at any specific time I allude to the Creator is nothing at all like what you refer to as a "God concept."
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 6, 2013
  10. variant

    variant Happy Cat

    +4,084
    Agnostic
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    You can claim I am ignorant all day if you don't bother to demonstrate how or why. ;)

    I don't care.

    That would just be the same argument you've made about a hundred times now, changeing the context and meanings of words to suit yourself without explaining why.

    Should I update my list of words you've mangled?

    I've already been over this in detail.

    Your true stripes are showing.
     
  11. variant

    variant Happy Cat

    +4,084
    Agnostic
    Single
    The only reason to twist the language the way he has is so that he can be seen as an authority by unsuspecting people, without having to offer any solid insight, and to keep his views beyond the scrutiny of others.

    Language is for communication.

    When an honest man speaks sincerely they do so because they wish to be understood.

    When a dishonest man speaks in riddles they do it because they do not wish to be understood.

    If religions weren't intended to be communicated they wouldn't be written down.
     
    Last edited: Feb 6, 2013
  12. variant

    variant Happy Cat

    +4,084
    Agnostic
    Single
    Maybe not, you just claim full unquestioned semantic authority on all words relating to your religion, so that you can never, ever be questioned by anyone who disagrees with you.

    [sarcasm]That's not like speaking for God at all.[/sarcasm]
     
    Last edited: Feb 6, 2013
  13. seeking Christ

    seeking Christ Guest

    +0
    While that can certainly be used as your excuse for getting all huffy, its not at all in line with your promise to not attempt to state my views for me, but rather to let me state my own.

    From my POV it is YOU who are twisting the language via trying to apply modern usage to sacred terms, in use for 100's of years before either of us were born. I have spent the better part of my life developing my Faith and with that comes learning its language. What makes you think I would forfeit that for you? You didn't start out by picking a fight about re-defining words used to relate sacred concepts, you started by asking questions about those sacred concepts.

    If all you want to do is pick a fight, pick on someone you can win against like every other bully does. If instead you want to do as you say and learn something new, don't be so surprised that you might have to acquaint yourself with a few new terms first.
     
  14. variant

    variant Happy Cat

    +4,084
    Agnostic
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    I'm describing something I have seen you do. Your actions are apparent in a way your views are not.

    You know, in plain terms so that others can see it too.

    I've explained my claims at length.

    Please point out the words twisted and why you think so.

    Holding to the usual definitions of words can hardly be called twisting them.

    I would not be in this fight if you answered a simple question without all this semantic hackery. Who is picking a fight with whom?

    This isn't even about religion anymore for me.

    I dislike what you are more than I dislike religion. There are rational people here with which I can easily communicate on matters.

    You've corrupted the very language to suit your needs.
     
    Last edited: Feb 6, 2013
  15. seeking Christ

    seeking Christ Guest

    +0
    Again, you ask questions and refuse to listen to the answers. That's not my fault. Your entire beef is refusing to learn enough to be able to process the answers, and you've been throwing a temper tantrum over it for how long now, a day and a half?
     
  16. variant

    variant Happy Cat

    +4,084
    Agnostic
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    I refuse to redefine half the terms I know to understand a nonsense answer for your benefit yes.
     
  17. seeking Christ

    seeking Christ Guest

    +0
    The extent of your exaggeration knows no bounds. Halloween's been over for 3 months, isn't it time to take off the drama Queen outfit?
     
  18. variant

    variant Happy Cat

    +4,084
    Agnostic
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    Well every time I utter a word that has anything to do with the subject-matter you claim it mis-defined.

    These are out of bounds:

    Religion
    God
    God Concept
    Believe
    Super Human
    Sense
    Supernatural

    Want to bet if we discussed anything else regarding your religion that you would continue on this tract?

    Which terms regarding religion have I gotten right?
     
  19. FrenchyBearpaw

    FrenchyBearpaw Take time for granite.

    +64
    Atheist
    Married
    Are you sure you're not the poster formerly known as "razeontherock," because your posts drip a certain smarmy arrogance that raze's did.
     
  20. Eyes wide Open

    Eyes wide Open Love and peace is the ONLY foundation-to build....

    943
    +120
    Seeking Christ, its poor form on a debating forum to not respond to a question, I asked you directly to clarify your comment on seeing a demon and the situation in which this arose. I'm happy for you to conclude that it was a private matter, at least that would be a courteous response. If that's the case we will leave the matter there.
     
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