Debunking Liberal Mythology... Again!

[Sharp]

A misguided liberal poster wrote the following under another forum, but it illustrates one of the worst flaws in liberalism: compromised values. This lack of absolute conviction is not based upon the Word of God. Here are excerpts for your judgement:

If you wish to believe that and you claim to be a follower of Christ read all the words directly said by Christ (the red lettering) that will guide you to what Christ thought of certain issues.

This is bizarre! It is like Jesus Christ didn't care about the Old and New Testaments. Let me assure you that Jesus Christ will guide you through the entire Bible, not just the red letters.

To make it clear Jesus never spoke about homosexuality, often spoke out against war, and always had compassion for the poor.

Gimme a break! Jesus Christ condemns homosexuality in both the Old and New Testaments. His Holy Spirit inspired the authors with the thoughts and values of Jesus Christ.

In like manner Jesus Christ not only endorsed warfare, He actually ordered it. Again He spoke via his Holy Spirit in the Bible. And in Revelation He will return to Earth as the greatest killer of humans ever... taking a third of all humans.

He never spoke against warfare, only against personal violence. I am not surprised that liberals don't read their Bibles.

And yes Jesus has compassion for the poor. It is called work. We evangelical and fundamentalist Christians still feed the poor, but the OT and NT ultimate solution is work. Christ through His Spirit inspired the Apostle Paul to write not to feed the poor who refuse to work. And Christ rebuked Judas with "The poor you always have with you." So much for liberals plans to erase poverty!

God is above all political parties. Instead of bickering about whos side God is on maybe Christian democrats and Christian Republicans should work things out side by side praying, actually reading scripture, researching, instead of listening to Christian talk radio and others.

Yes, the divide is not between parties, but between God's religious and moral and economic values and those of false versions of Christianity. Some people who claim to be Christians are not. Some people who claim to be leaders of prominent denominations have never had a personal relationship with Christ. We can dialog, but both sides have to have a source of authority... that should be the Bible. And that requires intellectual honesty to be interpreted correctly. That can happen only with God's Holy Spirit and God doesn't give His Spirit to non-Christian false Christians. (NOTE: I didn't say who are the false Christians here. I obey the forum rules. I was general.)

( a vast majority are Christian Republicans who believe that you cannot be a democrat and be a Christian)

Actually many democrats are fine, born-again Christians. They just don't belong in the democrat party. Their home should be in a party that reflects Godly, Bible-based values.

For though we live in the world, we do not wage war as the world does. The weapons we fight with are not the weapons of the world. On the contrary, they have divine power to demolish strongholds. We demolish arguments and every pretension that set itself up against the knowledge of God, and we take captive every thought to make it obedient to Christ.

2 Corithians 10: 3-5

I contrast the Spirit that motivates Bill Clinton (lying, sex sin, unfaithfulness to wife, illegal donations, lapse national security) with that of our President, and I realize where the evil principalities are.

 

[Sharp]

If you attend a church that troubles you, maybe it is time to leave. If your church teaches "tolerance" for homosexuality, and you know in your heart that God's Word condemns the practice, you should leave your church. If your church opposes the war in Iraq, and you know in your heart that God wants us there to fight evil, then you should leave your church.

If you don't leave, what kind of example are you to your family, your children? They need a Bible-based ministry to equip them for life. They aren't getting that in your church.

Never give another cent to a ministry that twists and perverts the Bible to justify tolerance for sin and evil. That is from the evil one, not from God. Don't give God's money to the enemies of God. Start looking for a Bible-believing church now.

 

[Billdemart]

While politically I consider myself a conservative, republican, Spiritually I consider myself pretty liberal. I wasn't always that way but have arrived at my current state of mind based on MANY readings including the Bible and countless books on the life of Jesus, etc.

What I don't understand is why Jesus would "condemn" Homosexuals when he loves everyone more than we can possibly imagine. God loves us more than our own parents do we are told yet he is going to condemn someone because they like their own sex instead of the opposite sex? That makes no sense any way you shake it.

 

[UberLutheran]

If you attend a church that troubles you, maybe it is time to leave. If your church teaches "tolerance" for homosexuality, and you know in your heart that God's Word condemns the practice, you should leave your church. If your church opposes the war in Iraq, and you know in your heart that God wants us there to fight evil, then you should leave your church.

If you don't leave, what kind of example are you to your family, your children? They need a Bible-based ministry to equip them for life. They aren't getting that in your church.

Never give another cent to a ministry that twists and perverts the Bible to justify tolerance for sin and evil. That is from the evil one, not from God. Don't give God's money to the enemies of God. Start looking for a Bible-believing church now.

I believe there is.

I go to a "liberal" church (in the ELCA) because we're not given our answers on a silver platter by the minister (as so frequently happens in fundamentalist churches): we're expected to pick up the Bible, read it, and (with appropriate guidance) figure out the answers for ourselves.

By diligent searching, and diligent research, I have worked out many of my own answers. Thank you for sharing your answers with us; but your answers are by no means definitive and they've certainly not my answers; and I happen to think that God is inclusive (I know how you conservatives HATE that word!) enough, and wise enough, to accommodate diverging and opposing points of view.

 

[seebs]

A misguided liberal poster wrote the following under another forum, but it illustrates one of the worst flaws in liberalism:

Okay. The first thread you did on this had a flat out error in it (you claimed that the post linked to "USED TO" exist), and further, in it you "debunked" as "liberal mythology" a piece of satire directed precisely at the position mainstream conservatives such as yourself often push.

The second thread you did on this quoted someone speaking ironically about the attitude he'd gotten from conservatives.

The third had flat-out Biblical errors; you claimed that Jesus was not the Word of God, despite the fact that the Bible clearly refers to Jesus as the Word of God.

Pray tell, why are you still posting these? Is the theory that the fourth one will be correct? Your track record is not encouraging.

It seems to me that you have a very strange and, frankly, entirely spurious notion of what "liberals" believe, and that, as long as you keep telling people what they believe, rather than asking them what they believe, the error will continue.

So far, you have been: Cruel, arrogant, quick to judge, slow to listen, quick to bear false witness, slow to offer retractions, proud, confrontational....

Friend, there's a plank in your eye. If you wish to stop compromising with sins, may I suggest your own as a starting point? The way in which you methodically reject every fruit of the spirit, and embrace nearly every fruit of the flesh, can hardly be justified by your militant rejection of a few sexual sins.

Pray more. Fight less.

 

[seebs]

If your church opposes the war in Iraq, and you know in your heart that God wants us there to fight evil, then you should leave your church.

What if your church supports the war, and you know in your heart that God wants us to practice forgiveness and compassion, rather than brutal slaughter of innocents? Should you leave your church? No! You should stay there, and work to heal it.

If you don't leave, what kind of example are you to your family, your children? They need a Bible-based ministry to equip them for life. They aren't getting that in your church.

Seems to me your church, whatever it is, has too much Bible and not enough Jesus in it.

But... Once again, I believe your reasoning is just plain wrong. Christians are not called to walk away from problems, but to confront them. How can you justify confronting problems in Iraq when you advocate running away from them at home?

Never give another cent to a ministry that twists and perverts the Bible to justify tolerance for sin and evil. That is from the evil one, not from God.

Indeed.

So, when are you gonna start looking?

 

[Evee]

While politically I consider myself a conservative, republican, Spiritually I consider myself pretty liberal. I wasn't always that way but have arrived at my current state of mind based on MANY readings including the Bible and countless books on the life of Jesus, etc.

What I don't understand is why Jesus would "condemn" Homosexuals when he loves everyone more than we can possibly imagine. God loves us more than our own parents do we are told yet he is going to condemn someone because they like their own sex instead of the opposite sex? That makes no sense any way you shake it.

All I can say you have made a big turnaround on this and now how do you feel about war?
Does your thoughts remain as before?

 

[UberLutheran]

While politically I consider myself a conservative, republican, Spiritually I consider myself pretty liberal. I wasn't always that way but have arrived at my current state of mind based on MANY readings including the Bible and countless books on the life of Jesus, etc.

What I don't understand is why Jesus would "condemn" Homosexuals when he loves everyone more than we can possibly imagine. God loves us more than our own parents do we are told yet he is going to condemn someone because they like their own sex instead of the opposite sex? That makes no sense any way you shake it.

You go into a supermarket looking for 12 oranges.

The supermarket represents everything in the known universe. The items in the supermarket represent all living things. The fruit section represents all of humanity.

Well, since you're looking for 12 oranges, you can't be looking for vegetables, so all the vegetables are going to Hell. You reach the fruit section, and while there are apples, grapefruit, grapes, peaches, and all sorts of other delectible fruit, you're looking for oranges. So, all the apples, grapefruit, grapes, peaches, and all the other non-oranges go to Hell.

You reach the oranges, and obviously you can't take ALL the oranges -- so you pick the twelve best ones, and leave the rest. All of the rest of the oranges which weren't picked go to Hell.

Once you leave the supermarket, a group of four jet bombers approaches the supermarket, drops incendiary bombs on the supermarket, and the supermarket catches fire and burns to the ground. This is the Last Judgment -- but the twelve oranges which were pre-selected don't have anything to worry about.

(This, incidentally, is why I am an Arminian with definite universalist tendencies. A store owner who truly loves and cares for his store is not going to allow everything he owns to be destroyed for the sake of twelve oranges.)

 

[CaDan]

If you attend a church that troubles you, maybe it is time to leave. If your church teaches "tolerance" for homosexuality, and you know in your heart that God's Word condemns the practice, you should leave your church. If your church opposes the war in Iraq, and you know in your heart that God wants us there to fight evil, then you should leave your church.

If you don't leave, what kind of example are you to your family, your children? They need a Bible-based ministry to equip them for life. They aren't getting that in your church.

Never give another cent to a ministry that twists and perverts the Bible to justify tolerance for sin and evil. That is from the evil one, not from God. Don't give God's money to the enemies of God. Start looking for a Bible-believing church now.

Sharp, I'm really tired today. I was in court earler fighting usurers. You do
remember the sin of usury, don't you?

Here's a link to my church:
St. Joan of Arc

Here is what is preached.

Here is our mission statement.

Here are the people who don't like us.

Here is what our Archbishop thinks of them.

Your attacks hurt real people in real communities of faith. I've had enough of them. My parish has had enough of them. My Archbishop has had enough of them.

I'm too tired for the ice cream thing.

Just stop this.

 

[UberLutheran]

...and runs away as the crowd gathers.

Remember Charlie Brown and Lucy, when Lucy was holding the football for Charlie Brown in the old "Peanuts" cartoons?

"C'mon, Charlie Brown. You can trust me. I'm not going to pull the football out from under you when you kick it."

Guess what? Lucy pulls the football out from Charlie Brown, who falls on the ground -- again.

So -- why are we continuing to let sharp hold the football for us?

(Of course, as always -- George Bush said it best: "There's an old saying in Tennessee — I know it's in Texas, probably in Tennessee — that says, fool me once, shame on — shame on you. Fool me — you can't get fooled again." —George W. Bush, Nashville, Tenn., Sept. 17, 2002)

 

[HumbleMan]

I'm glad to see you post in more than just the political forums, Sharp. While I've agreed with some of the things you've posted, your stance on Christ is a little too....... well, I don't know how to describe it.

Christ is the Son of God, the Word of God, the Sacrificial Lamb. His ministry on earth was two fold; to show the Glory of the coming Kingdom, and to show the proper attitude in obeying the Law.

The bible does condemn homosexuality. It doesn't say we are to condemn those that are unrepentent. That is Christ's judgement. We are to expose the world to the Good News of Christ, pray that those in the dark see the light, and turn from their ways. Nowhere does it say to ridicule, treat poorly, or withhold love from anyone, including gays.

What kind of church do you go to? Are you seperatists? Or are you a beacon of light on the path to the narrow gate? If your church isn't preaching the Truth through Love, then you need to find another church. And I'm saying this because I am worried about you. Don't harden your heart because you feel Christianity is a sport.


"Actually many democrats are fine, born-again Christians. They just don't belong in the democrat party. Their home should be in a party that reflects Godly, Bible-based values."

Show me a political party that does this, and I would vote for them.

 

[seebs]

Those CPO people are spooky. Lots of -ianity, very little Christ.

 

[CaDan]

It's good to have enemies.

 

[seebs]

The bible does condemn homosexuality.

Why don't you bring this up in the homosexuality and the Bible thread? If you are capable of actually discussing, rather than yelling and frothing, you're welcome to make the case. So far, no one's done a good job of making the crucial jump from homosexual sex to homosexuality.

 

[CaDan]

Oh Sharp. One other thing . . .

One year when the Fourth of July fell on a Sunday, we sang "L'Internationale" at mass with Prudence Johnson as guest music. (Billy Bragg's modified lyrics)

Stand up, all victims of oppression
For the tyrants fear your might
Don't cling so hard to your possessions
For you have nothing, if you have no rights
Let racist ignorance be ended
For respect makes the empires fall
Freedom is merely privilege extended
Unless enjoyed by one and all

Yes, Sharp, you are now encountering a Real Live Sleep-Deprived Liberal Christian.

I'm not talkin' theology here, boy. I'm talkin' revolution.

 

[The Pinata]

It doesn't matter. Sharp... a flat out religious extremist conservative... comes into the liberal theology forum, posts conservative rants, baselessly attacks liberal theology, and doesn't respond after that point to any rebuttals of his folly.

Could a moderator ban him from this forum? He doesn't belong here, and he is just trying to cause problems.

 

[seebs]

He occasionally comes back to a thread.

 

[Loki]

Personally, I find the titles of his threads "Debunking Liberal Mythology" offensive, though I'm not sure it's so much a violation of the rules as just poor taste and lack of compassion towards other humans.

 

[Firefly]

I am not surprised that liberals don't read their Bibles.

Imagine my surprise that you and I are reading the same
one.

 

[Karl - Liberal Backslider]

Sharp hasn't read his Bible. The remedy for poverty in the OT is that the rich stop oppressing the poor. It is that the wealthy share what they have.

Accusing the poor, en masse, of being workshy and therefore totally culpable for their position is an example of such oppression.

In Sharp's Bible, presumably Dives told Lazarus to stop trying to bum off him and get a ****ing job, the skiving git. And presumably, also, in Sharp's Bible, Dives was commended by God.

In mine it was rather different.

In Sharp's "Biblical" universe, what exactly where the miners and steel-workers of Yorkshire meant to live on whilst they got back on their feet after the closure of the pits and steelworks? Fresh air? Would he really say to a steelworker, redundant after fifteen years hard work, with starving kids (and they would be if he had his way and there was no welfare state) "**** off and get a job you whining freeloader?"

Sounds like it.

Sorry, Sharp. What you are selling stinks of evil.