Debunking Flat Earth

[Clizby WampusCat]

The bible, also, when taken from simple context, is easy enough for even uneducated to comprehend. The deeper that you delve into the scriptures, the layers unfold.

This has been demonstrated to be false. If this was true there would not be many competing and contradictory theories of salvation. Red Letter Christians do not believe in the atonement at all, that we are just forgiven without a sacrifice, Catholics believe works are required, others believe works are not required, Mormons have other ideas etc. all based on the same bible and revelation. So no, a simple reading leads to confusion not understanding.

The basic message from the bible is not a religion but a the desire of our creator to have a relationship with His creation.

That is not a relationship as anyone knows it. A relationship is between people that know each other, can talk to each other, can support each other etc. A relationship is not through letters that are not personal at all.

 

[Clizby WampusCat]

Perhaps. But you might also keep in mind the academic observation that Atheists can't agree on which form of Ethics will make 'morality' a real and truly useful and meaningful thing.

Many atheists not only lack a belief in God but also a discernible North Star by which to guide their emotional proclivities in the realm of ethics and morality. So, since atheists can't seem to agree among themselves about this stuff, it sounds like the fact that being that human beings 'disagree' on religion and ethics (and politics), all of this is more or less simply an endemic condition of being human rather than being either Christian or Atheist, and atheists are making existential leaps of certain kinds just as are Christians.

Again, Atheists are not claiming any lack of ethics will doom you to torture forever, Christians are. For god not to be clear on the correct path to avoid that is troubling.

 

[2PhiloVoid]

Again, Atheists are not claiming any lack of ethics will doom you to torture forever, Christians are. For god not to be clear on the correct path to avoid that is troubling.

Well, I can understand some of your consternation here, but as a Christian who advocates a modified Annihilationist perspective regarding the concept of 'hell,' I'd simply say that from my own vantage point, and by using the art and science of Hermeneutical method, I've come to see that God was "clear enough," even if not comprehensive in His explication of various theological topics that most of us would have liked to have had more info on.

 

[46AND2]

Here's a conundrum.....

The horizon is always at eye level. On the ground, at sea level, at 30,000 feet in an air craft.... even from high altitude. The horizon is always right there mid frame.

Do you ever bother to fact check any of these FE claims you make? This is why we don't believe you when you say you haven't made up your mind yet. You blindly follow these easily testable and demonstrably WRONG claims. Here you go:

On a ball, the higher you go, the further you would see. This further horizon, on a ball, would be lower and lower and lower. You would need to continue lowering your line of sight to see the horizon..

This is not the fact that we see.

That IS what we see, and we can even predict, and verify HOW MUCH we look lower, as shown in this video:

Furthermore, you would expect to see the SAME THING happen on a flat earth, except you would have to change your angle of view at a faster rate, because there is no reason why going higher in altitude should help you see farther on a flat earth. Therefore, the horizon would not get farther away like it does on the globe, and your angle of view would necessarily have to lower by a larger degree.

 

[46AND2]

This is the only and final "go to" that I have had it boiled down to, with many people that I have debated with here on CF...

*cough* Scale. *cough* Weight

$25

Why are you ignoring my challenge?

As a matter of fact, I'll even do the experiment when I go to Phoenix for Thanksgiving, post the video, and then mail you the scale and weight so you can observe for yourself that I wasn't cheating. You won't even have to pay the $25.

Couple caveats though, you have to promise not to dismiss my results until after you have performed it yourself. You either have to post the video of your results (no worries, you won't have to show your face--you won't be seeing my ugly mug--or even speak, if you do it right), or, instead of posting a video, you can just write your admission that your results confirm my claim.

Sound fair? You game?

 

[JacksBratt]

O, so they pasted in a picture of the earth, and they also pasted in a picture of the moon.



Hardly. We observe that when a car is running, and the brake is not depressed, then pressing the accelerator causes the car to move. One day, we notice that pressing the accelerator does not cause the car to move. We are briefly puzzled by this contravention of natural law, until we discover we have forgotten to release the parking brake. This special circumstance (like the eclipse) causes things to be different. This does not negate our general rule of how cars work. Similarly, the eclipse effect (if it exists) does not affect our understanding of how the Foucault pendulum works almost all the time, in particular, the dependence of the motion on latitude.



But only at that time of eclipse. At other times, our usual understanding is valid.

In science... if you assume that a certain action (action A) is causing another (action B).. then if action B changes, in fact reverses, while it is impossible for action A to have changed... It could be concluded that Action A is not connected to Action B.

 

[essentialsaltes]

In science... if you assume that a certain action (action A) is causing another (action B).. then if action B changes, in fact reverses, while it is impossible for action A to have changed... It could be concluded that Action A is not connected to Action B.

Nonsense. You said yourself there was an additional influence (action C). Actions A + C together may result in a difference in Action B.

 

[JacksBratt]

*cough* Scale. *cough* Weight

$25

Why are you ignoring my challenge?

As a matter of fact, I'll even do the experiment when I go to Phoenix for Thanksgiving, post the video, and then mail you the scale and weight so you can observe for yourself that I wasn't cheating. You won't even have to pay the $25.

Couple caveats though, you have to promise not to dismiss my results until after you have performed it yourself. You either have to post the video of your results (no worries, you won't have to show your face--you won't be seeing my ugly mug--or even speak, if you do it right), or, instead of posting a video, you can just write your admission that your results confirm my claim.

Sound fair? You game?

From what I have found... the tolerance on a $25.00 scale is not accurate enough to be used in such an experiment. From the pricier scales to the cheapest.... not accurate...
From:BBC One Show: How accurate are your bathroom scales?


The bathroom scales tested varied in price - from the pricier end of the market (a Tanita bathroom scale) to the cheapest money can buy (a Tesco own-brand bathroom scale and a Duronic bathroom scale) - and a WeightWatchers scale offering somewhere in the middle.

And the outcome? Well, it was no surprise that not one of the bathroom scales tested came close to the accuracy of the Marsden scale - of course, none of the bathroom scales tested were Class III medically approved.

Also, from other sites I have found that the weight difference can be anywhere from nothing (a mathematical calculation but not a real event ) to 0.4 or 0.5%. That is a change from the equator... to the pole..

I live closer to the pole than the equator... and the weight change would be less than 0.4/0.5% in shorter changes of distances....

So, no, I cannot use $25.00 scale and do the test. If I could, it would not be credible as the scale would be outside the tolerances of the measurable change necessary.

The more I read on this, the more confusing it became.. The majority of articles were no more than chicken scratch mathematical calculations that told the "theoretical" weight changes..
It go even more bogged down with all the theoretical factors and variables....

Maybe this is why, when I asked someone if it was a true fact... they simply stated that it is not measurable.

 

[JacksBratt]

Nonsense. You said yourself there was an additional influence (action C). Actions A + C together may result in a difference in Action B.

Yes, that is one conclusion.. However, how much of an effect is Action A if action B reverses with Action A being unchanged....

Maybe Action A is a non issue..

 

[essentialsaltes]

Yes, that is one conclusion.. However, how much of an effect is Action A if action B reverses with Action A being unchanged....

Depends how strong Action C is. Seriously, your complaint is tantamount to doubting gravity because you've seen helium balloons float away.

 

[Clizby WampusCat]

Oh, you mean like taxing people and holding an entire country hostage to financial implications over a non existent issue like "climate change"? When even if your country and it's neighbor to the south eliminated 100% of the CO2 emissions.. the world would still be, "supposedly", in peril?

Pah.... lease... Your idea is censorship and control of thinking.. Ever read the book "1984".

How is teaching how to think properly to come to truth censorship or mind control. It is the opposite. I never brought up climate change, you did. What are you afraid of if everyone had the ability to think for themselves and come to conclusions based on good reasoning and logic?

 

[Clizby WampusCat]

I agree. We should teach kids how to think, reason, deduce conclusions. However, telling someone what is truth.. and having them regurgitate it on an exam.... is not teaching them anything.. It is storing data in a hard drive... only to be accessed later.
Our kids are indoctrinated with what academia wants them to think... Basically brainwashed...

If you can control the children... you can control the future...

How dare anyone indicate that something is different than the what we were told.

well maybe in Canada, but in Texas anyway, they try to teach good thinking however they don't do a very good job. I think it is mainly because of the Christian influence. There is no conspiracy to control the children, this is just more flat earth type thinking in my opinion. The reality is we just don't do a good job of teaching thinking skills in our schools. It is not because of a government agenda to control children.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

You know that image is not drawn to scale, right?

"Close enuff' fur guvrnmant work"

 

[Strathos]

Doubt it all you want.. truth cares not.

I could say the same to you.

The bible doesn't say that it is a sphere, spinning or moving in any way..... Your point?

The Bible isn't about the shape of the earth. That's not the point.

BTW, it's funny that you make an argument involving eclipses when your model can't even explain them.

 

[46AND2]

From what I have found... the tolerance on a $25.00 scale is not accurate enough to be used in such an experiment. From the pricier scales to the cheapest.... not accurate...
From:BBC One Show: How accurate are your bathroom scales?


The bathroom scales tested varied in price - from the pricier end of the market (a Tanita bathroom scale) to the cheapest money can buy (a Tesco own-brand bathroom scale and a Duronic bathroom scale) - and a WeightWatchers scale offering somewhere in the middle.

And the outcome? Well, it was no surprise that not one of the bathroom scales tested came close to the accuracy of the Marsden scale - of course, none of the bathroom scales tested were Class III medically approved.

Also, from other sites I have found that the weight difference can be anywhere from nothing (a mathematical calculation but not a real event ) to 0.4 or 0.5%. That is a change from the equator... to the pole..

I live closer to the pole than the equator... and the weight change would be less than 0.4/0.5% in shorter changes of distances....

So, no, I cannot use $25.00 scale and do the test. If I could, it would not be credible as the scale would be outside the tolerances of the measurable change necessary.

The more I read on this, the more confusing it became.. The majority of articles were no more than chicken scratch mathematical calculations that told the "theoretical" weight changes..
It go even more bogged down with all the theoretical factors and variables....

Maybe this is why, when I asked someone if it was a true fact... they simply stated that it is not measurable.

It is measurable, and has been measured:

Long weigh from gnome: The bizarre experiment where a garden ornament travels the world to measure gravity | Daily Mail Online

But I will work with you. I'll put down the money and buy a good scale. Think I've found a good one that you would accept as accurate enough for around $200. I have a friend who makes his own ammo (sport shooter, not a hunter, in case that concerns you), so I can resell it to him after the experiment. This is the scale:

My Weigh iBalance 401 (i401)

It has good reviews, and is supposed to be accurate to within 5 millligrams. The difference I expect to see will be in the couple hundred milligram range (I'll calculate an actual prediction prior to the experiment). I'll also film a thorough calibration video to demonstrate its accuracy.

Any other concerns?

Edit:

I will also include in the video the GPS coordinates of my measurements, and film the street signs of the location to prove I'm actually there. I will also select locations at comparable elevations as that can also have an effect. The measurements will be taken inside with a substantial warmup period for the scale to eliminate temperature differences, and it will be plugged in, not on batteries.

 

[Bungle_Bear]

Oh yes.. the Foucault pendulum that needs a mechanical force to keep it moving and has been seen to reverse it's motion during an eclipse..

This is the only and final "go to" that I have had it boiled down to, with many people that I have debated with here on CF...

The Foucault Pendulum is not the nail in the coffin of FE like many would like... It is the last bit that some have to hang on to though.

However the other experiments trump it.. The Michelson Morley experiment and Airy's Failure, to name two.

Allais (not Airy) performed his experiment twice. Both times the anomaly detected can be explained by environmental factors. Similar experiments by other people using better controlled environments failed to demonstrate any change.

 

[46AND2]

From what I have found... the tolerance on a $25.00 scale is not accurate enough to be used in such an experiment. From the pricier scales to the cheapest.... not accurate...
From:BBC One Show: How accurate are your bathroom scales?


The bathroom scales tested varied in price - from the pricier end of the market (a Tanita bathroom scale) to the cheapest money can buy (a Tesco own-brand bathroom scale and a Duronic bathroom scale) - and a WeightWatchers scale offering somewhere in the middle.

And the outcome? Well, it was no surprise that not one of the bathroom scales tested came close to the accuracy of the Marsden scale - of course, none of the bathroom scales tested were Class III medically approved.

Also, from other sites I have found that the weight difference can be anywhere from nothing (a mathematical calculation but not a real event ) to 0.4 or 0.5%. That is a change from the equator... to the pole..

I live closer to the pole than the equator... and the weight change would be less than 0.4/0.5% in shorter changes of distances....

So, no, I cannot use $25.00 scale and do the test. If I could, it would not be credible as the scale would be outside the tolerances of the measurable change necessary.

The more I read on this, the more confusing it became.. The majority of articles were no more than chicken scratch mathematical calculations that told the "theoretical" weight changes..
It go even more bogged down with all the theoretical factors and variables....

Maybe this is why, when I asked someone if it was a true fact... they simply stated that it is not measurable.

Oh yeah...and why on earth would I use a bathroom scale?

 

[JacksBratt]

I could say the same to you.



The Bible isn't about the shape of the earth. That's not the point.

BTW, it's funny that you make an argument involving eclipses when your model can't even explain them.

You are right... eclipses are an issue..

Speaking of which. How do you explain the fact that there are total eclipses of the moon, by the shadow of the earth, while the sun is fully up in the eastern sky?

Looks like both models have some issues with an eclipse, huh?

You cannot have a sun fully risen and the shadow of the earth, caused by the sun, over the moon while the moon is visible and up in the sky... But... there it is.

It's called a Selenelion.... and you will not believe the diagrams and explanatory gymnastics that the globe camp will do to tell you that it is not impossible......

 

[JacksBratt]

It is measurable, and has been measured:

Long weigh from gnome: The bizarre experiment where a garden ornament travels the world to measure gravity | Daily Mail Online

But I will work with you. I'll put down the money and buy a good scale. Think I've found a good one that you would accept as accurate enough for around $200. I have a friend who makes his own ammo (sport shooter, not a hunter, in case that concerns you), so I can resell it to him after the experiment. This is the scale:

My Weigh iBalance 401 (i401)

It has good reviews, and is supposed to be accurate to within 5 millligrams. The difference I expect to see will be in the couple hundred milligram range (I'll calculate an actual prediction prior to the experiment). I'll also film a thorough calibration video to demonstrate its accuracy.

Any other concerns?

Edit:

I will also include in the video the GPS coordinates of my measurements, and film the street signs of the location to prove I'm actually there. I will also select locations at comparable elevations as that can also have an effect. The measurements will be taken inside with a substantial warmup period for the scale to eliminate temperature differences, and it will be plugged in, not on batteries.

Funny, it states that the changes in gravity are due to bulges in the earth... not the spin and all the other mathematical explanations.

I look forward to your results,however.

 

[JacksBratt]

Oh yeah...and why on earth would I use a bathroom scale?

You said a $25.00 scale. The ones we use at work that would mearure to a couple of decimals, accurately..are not $25.00 So, I assumed you meant a scale of such quality....