Debate help...why is homosexuality wrong?

[Proselyte]

Hello friends. A discussion has opened up between my non-Christian friends and I regarding some issues. One of them is the topic of homosexuality.

As we all know, the Bible is clear on being against this lifestyle. What I need is some other reasons to use with my friends on this topic. The reason being is that they don't believe the Bible, or in Jesus. If I just say the Bible says so, that's not going to help their understanding. Topics like murder, aldutery, abortion to some extent are easier to debate due to the effects they have on other people. But how about homosexuality?

I've already taken into account the fact that at its basic level, it doesn't propagate the species. I still think I need something else to go with.

Many of these friends are curious, and I have been opening the door to Christianity with them. My goal is to continue to do so in a caring and loving manner, and not force anything on them, as that isn't always effective.

Thanks!

 

[Maccie]

Just to confuse you even more, there is no consensus of opinion amongst all Christians that the Bible is against a loving, stable, homosexual relationship.

If your friends do not believe there is a God, and many Christians do not believe that god is against stable, loving relationships between two people of the same sex, then you are going to have a hard job convincing them that homosexuality is wrong!

Maybe it isn't wrong! Have you listened to their arguments for homosexuality not being sinful? Try it, you might learn something!

 

[Proselyte]

Just to confuse you even more, there is no consensus of opinion amongst all Christians that the Bible is against a loving, stable, homosexual relationship.

If your friends do not believe there is a God, and many Christians do not believe that god is against stable, loving relationships between two people of the same sex, then you are going to have a hard job convincing them that homosexuality is wrong!

Maybe it isn't wrong! Have you listened to their arguments for homosexuality not being sinful? Try it, you might learn something!

Why would there be Biblical confusion over this topic? There have been many clear passages in the Bible of God's mandate against the gay lifestyle.

 

[Sojourner<><]

Hello friends. A discussion has opened up between my non-Christian friends and I regarding some issues. One of them is the topic of homosexuality.

As we all know, the Bible is clear on being against this lifestyle. What I need is some other reasons to use with my friends on this topic. The reason being is that they don't believe the Bible, or in Jesus. If I just say the Bible says so, that's not going to help their understanding. Topics like murder, aldutery, abortion to some extent are easier to debate due to the effects they have on other people. But how about homosexuality?

I've already taken into account the fact that at its basic level, it doesn't propagate the species. I still think I need something else to go with.

Many of these friends are curious, and I have been opening the door to Christianity with them. My goal is to continue to do so in a caring and loving manner, and not force anything on them, as that isn't always effective.

Thanks!

God designed us to behave and operate in a certain way. Same sex relationships were not part of that design. You wouldn't try to swap your car's steering wheel with one of its front tires would you?

 

[Paleoconservatarian]

Hello friends. A discussion has opened up between my non-Christian friends and I regarding some issues. One of them is the topic of homosexuality.

As we all know, the Bible is clear on being against this lifestyle. What I need is some other reasons to use with my friends on this topic. The reason being is that they don't believe the Bible, or in Jesus. If I just say the Bible says so, that's not going to help their understanding. Topics like murder, aldutery, abortion to some extent are easier to debate due to the effects they have on other people. But how about homosexuality?

I've already taken into account the fact that at its basic level, it doesn't propagate the species. I still think I need something else to go with.

Many of these friends are curious, and I have been opening the door to Christianity with them. My goal is to continue to do so in a caring and loving manner, and not force anything on them, as that isn't always effective.

Thanks!

The trouble is that your friends reject the authority of the Bible. The correct answer for why homosexuality is wrong is precisely, "because the Bible says so." Pragmatic reasons are missing the point (even if they are good reasons to avoid a given activity). What you need to do is talk to your friends about why your authority is Holy Scripture, because if they reject it as God's inspired word, they've got bigger problems than homosexuality.

 

[Lynn73]

Why would there be Biblical confusion over this topic? There have been many clear passages in the Bible of God's mandate against the gay lifestyle.

Biblically, there is no confusion. The Lord is very clear. But since the person doesn't accept biblical authority, they won't listen to that. Christians disagreeing on the subject makes it even more confusing.

What you need to do is talk to your friends about why your authority is Holy Scripture, because if they reject it as God's inspired word, they've got bigger problems than homosexuality.

I agree.

 

[Proselyte]

With these friends, I need to plant seeds, raise questions...take that approach. Guns blazing with them isn't working, and I don't want to turn them off to the word that way. I have made some headway in witnessing and going with friendly debates. As someone said, they reject the authority of the Bible at this time, so quoting it to them as my only source isn't being effective. Surely there are some side arguments that correlate with the Bible that can then open that door.

 

[Maccie]

Why would there be Biblical confusion over this topic? There have been many clear passages in the Bible of God's mandate against the gay lifestyle.

And many Christians would disagree with you. They would maintain, that the Bible is not against stable, loving homosexual relationships. Whether or not you agree with them does not alter the fact that many Christians would not consider homosexuality wrong. And I am talking about stable relationships. Heterosexual or homosexual "one night stands" and seeing sexual intercourse as something everyone does, for fun, money or whatever, are wrong.

I am quite sure the moderators will not allow any discussion of the rightness or wrongness of homosexuality on this thread. You will just have to accept that not every Christian, and very few non-Christians think homosexuality is wrong.

 

[Proselyte]

Are there some Biblical passages that these pro-homosexual Christians cite for their beliefs?

I'll admit that beliefs between Christians vary...I like to fashion my way of life in accordance to the Bible and God's will, which is why I am not in support of Gay Marriages.

 

[he4rty]

Hello friends. A discussion has opened up between my non-Christian friends and I regarding some issues. One of them is the topic of homosexuality.

As we all know, the Bible is clear on being against this lifestyle. What I need is some other reasons to use with my friends on this topic. The reason being is that they don't believe the Bible, or in Jesus. If I just say the Bible says so, that's not going to help their understanding. Topics like murder, aldutery, abortion to some extent are easier to debate due to the effects they have on other people. But how about homosexuality?

I've already taken into account the fact that at its basic level, it doesn't propagate the species. I still think I need something else to go with.

Many of these friends are curious, and I have been opening the door to Christianity with them. My goal is to continue to do so in a caring and loving manner, and not force anything on them, as that isn't always effective.

Thanks!

You need them to understand that homosexuality is not entirley wrong only the act of the relationship,we are all tempted even Jesus but when we act on that temptation it becomes sin, so the temptation to sleep with a same sex partner or unmarried partner is not wrong its when we do we sin.

 

[Crazy Liz]

[mod hat]

This thread has been moved from General Theology to Christian Philosophy and Ethics, pursuant to Christian Forums Rule 3.9:

3.9 Controversial Topics to Be Discussed Only in Certain Forums. Members shall make posts regarding the following subjects only in Ethics & Morality, Liberal Theology or Christian Philosophy forums, or any subforums in the Congregation/Recovery section:
a. drug use.
b. gambling.
c. polygamy.
d. extramarital sexual activity.
e. abortion.
f. homosexuality.
g. transsexuality.

In the future, please try to start threads in the correct forum. Thank you!

[/mod hat]

 

[onajourney87]

I really don't see any argument you can make without Scripture against homosexual sex.

People can argue it doesn't "pro-create," but as soon as you do that, you tend to bring sexuality down to a very mechanicalistic tool for simply carrying on the human race (which is not at all what we find in Scripture).

Some try to argue that it is "unnatural," but that is a very questionable argument since many very natural animals have homosexual sex.

Having said that, it's good you realize you can't just quote Scripture and expect people to accept it. At the same time, I think it's worth realizing that people won't accept "morality" simply because you can present a logical case for it (we humans tend to be very illogical if you haven't noticed ).

Stick on Jesus, show 'em Jesus. If they have questions, do your best to answer them, but ultimately everything comes down to Jesus and providing them with a moral system but not Jesus is problematic to say the least.

 

[nattsie]

I don't think it is wrong.. if you actually knew anyone personally who is a homosexual you would know that it's not something they choose but it is something they are born with.

 

[DeepThinker]

The correct answer for why homosexuality is wrong is precisely, "because the Bible says so." Pragmatic reasons are missing the point

Man im realy gunna sound like a broken record here nearly every post of mine seems to be the same, or at least follow the same lines, but at least im true to my convictions.

The bible is not an absolute word of God, the only thing that is the absolute word of God is.... well the word of God. The Bible says many things, one passage though I forget where prohibits the use of man made fibres. The Bible is usefull, dont take it word for word though, look at the message. A more usefull tool is our hearts follow your heart its Gods compass in everyone.

My personal belife is that homosexuality is not wrong.

 

[Proselyte]

I really don't see any argument you can make without Scripture against homosexual sex.

People can argue it doesn't "pro-create," but as soon as you do that, you tend to bring sexuality down to a very mechanicalistic tool for simply carrying on the human race (which is not at all what we find in Scripture).

Some try to argue that it is "unnatural," but that is a very questionable argument since many very natural animals have homosexual sex.

Having said that, it's good you realize you can't just quote Scripture and expect people to accept it. At the same time, I think it's worth realizing that people won't accept "morality" simply because you can present a logical case for it (we humans tend to be very illogical if you haven't noticed ).

Stick on Jesus, show 'em Jesus. If they have questions, do your best to answer them, but ultimately everything comes down to Jesus and providing them with a moral system but not Jesus is problematic to say the least.

I like your response. I have come to the point you have with the issue, and I have shared Jesus with them. /high five for your helpful reply.

 

[Proselyte]

I don't think it is wrong.. if you actually knew anyone personally who is a homosexual you would know that it's not something they choose but it is something they are born with.

I have known many gay individuals, many I consider friends.
I don't agree that they are born with it. In many of their lives we have isolated social causes that have steered them in the direction of homosexuality.
Not to mention the so-called "Gay Gene" hasn't been discovered.

 

[Mskedi]

Hello friends. A discussion has opened up between my non-Christian friends and I regarding some issues. One of them is the topic of homosexuality.

As we all know, the Bible is clear on being against this lifestyle. What I need is some other reasons to use with my friends on this topic. The reason being is that they don't believe the Bible, or in Jesus. If I just say the Bible says so, that's not going to help their understanding. Topics like murder, aldutery, abortion to some extent are easier to debate due to the effects they have on other people. But how about homosexuality?

I've already taken into account the fact that at its basic level, it doesn't propagate the species. I still think I need something else to go with.

Many of these friends are curious, and I have been opening the door to Christianity with them. My goal is to continue to do so in a caring and loving manner, and not force anything on them, as that isn't always effective.

Thanks!

The problem is, if you try to say anything but "the Bible says so" you'll have nothing to argue because, as you already pointed out, no one is harmed by homosexuality.

Personally, I don't think you have much to go with saying "the Bible says so", either. The first gay couple I met (I've known them since birth ) was an older couple (in their seventies when I met them) who had been together since at least their thirties, if not their twenties. They had one of the best examples of a loving relationship I've ever seen.

 

[Proselyte]

Man im realy gunna sound like a broken record here nearly every post of mine seems to be the same, or at least follow the same lines, but at least im true to my convictions.

The bible is not an absolute word of God, the only thing that is the absolute word of God is.... well the word of God. The Bible says many things, one passage though I forget where prohibits the use of man made fibres. The Bible is usefull, dont take it word for word though, look at the message. A more usefull tool is our hearts follow your heart its Gods compass in everyone.

My personal belife is that homosexuality is not wrong.

Leviticus 18:22 states: "Thou shall not lie with mankind as with womankind: it is abomination."

The Bible is pretty clear on the matter. There are other quotes, but this one says it all.
If I don't listen to what the Bible says about this, why should I listen about adultery, theft etc?
I don't want to start picking and choosing what I agree with in the Bible to fit my comfortable world view...

 

[Proselyte]

You need them to understand that homosexuality is not entirley wrong only the act of the relationship,we are all tempted even Jesus but when we act on that temptation it becomes sin, so the temptation to sleep with a same sex partner or unmarried partner is not wrong its when we do we sin.

Good point. I know people who had homosexual experiences who have turned away from the sin, but it will always be a struggle for them, like a drug or alcohol addict.
As long as it's temptation and not fantasy or lust, as Jesus told us :
Matt 5:28
28 But I tell you that anyone who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart.

 

[savvy24]

U ALL HAVE EXCELENT POINTS AND AND ALL ARE VERY TRUE

BEFORE I BECAME CHRISTIAN I USE TO DO OR THOUGHT ABOUT THE SAME SEX I THOUGHT IS WAS INTERSETING AND ALL THESE THINGS BUT WITH OUT gOD WE HAVE NO STANDARDS HARDLY AND THE ONES WE DO HAVE ARE MOST OF THE TIME TESTED AND FAIL AT THE END WE BECOME SUCKED INTO THE WORLD . THE ONLY THING THAT IS REALLY GOING TO GET THEM TO UNDERSTAND AND STOP IS gOD U JUST GOING TO HAVE TO PRAY FOR THEM TO SEE AND MEET GOD .
WE WERE MADE TO0 PRODUCE BABIES AND POPULATE THE EARTH THERE IS NO WAY TO HAVE BABIES IF WITH SAME GENDER