Hi,
I've heard posts here, but never really experienced, the outright disgust many others feel about predestination. It surprises me, but I suppose it shouldn't when many westerners (myself included) live in a culture which puts choice on a great pedestal.
I have had a most frustrating conversation with someone else which threatened to fry my brain (and yes, that person will know who they are if they read this thread). One complaint that was raised against me a few times was that I considered those who reject the doctrine of election as being unsaved. I made it clear...or thought I had...that I believe a person can think that God gives us the freedom to choose to be saved, and still be saved. ie, I do not think the doctrine of election is an essential doctrine akin to, say, the deity of Christ, or the trinity.
Is this how others of you feel? Or do you go so far as to say that those who reject the doctrine of election (article 16 of the Belgic confession) are unsaved?
Frankly, I'm not used to being treated like an outcast and a despised thing from people who are supposed to be my brothers and sisters in Christ. Yes, I've felt it from Mormons and Jehovah's Witnesses - but not from people in protestant denominations. Whom up until this point I had perceived as being my brethren. Certainly my pastor who teaches the doctrine of election also includes armenian denominations as Christian denominations.
The other question is - how common is misunderstanding of election? I was accused of having "clicques", despite the fact that I have Christian friends who disagree with me on election. I was accused of calling those who deny this doctrine unsaved. This person even thought that I believed someone could have genuine faith in God but still be unsaved because they were not elected. Frankly, I was surprised at the depth of misunderstanding. I would normally just assume that this person was an exception to the rule...I have a tendancy to assume that others are as cool and rational as I perceive myself (note: perceive, not necessarily am), but perhaps this is not a reasonable point of view. I think this because I've seen others of you object.
To summarise, I'm not used to being considered a heretic and outcast of the Church. How can these people call us so when it was the reformation which taught election that their churches descended from? Do they know better than their ancestors? Seems hardly fair to label us as heretics when their heritage sprang from the same source, and they are the ones that have strayed, not us.
Your thoughts appreciated.
I've heard posts here, but never really experienced, the outright disgust many others feel about predestination. It surprises me, but I suppose it shouldn't when many westerners (myself included) live in a culture which puts choice on a great pedestal.
I have had a most frustrating conversation with someone else which threatened to fry my brain (and yes, that person will know who they are if they read this thread). One complaint that was raised against me a few times was that I considered those who reject the doctrine of election as being unsaved. I made it clear...or thought I had...that I believe a person can think that God gives us the freedom to choose to be saved, and still be saved. ie, I do not think the doctrine of election is an essential doctrine akin to, say, the deity of Christ, or the trinity.
Is this how others of you feel? Or do you go so far as to say that those who reject the doctrine of election (article 16 of the Belgic confession) are unsaved?
Frankly, I'm not used to being treated like an outcast and a despised thing from people who are supposed to be my brothers and sisters in Christ. Yes, I've felt it from Mormons and Jehovah's Witnesses - but not from people in protestant denominations. Whom up until this point I had perceived as being my brethren. Certainly my pastor who teaches the doctrine of election also includes armenian denominations as Christian denominations.
The other question is - how common is misunderstanding of election? I was accused of having "clicques", despite the fact that I have Christian friends who disagree with me on election. I was accused of calling those who deny this doctrine unsaved. This person even thought that I believed someone could have genuine faith in God but still be unsaved because they were not elected. Frankly, I was surprised at the depth of misunderstanding. I would normally just assume that this person was an exception to the rule...I have a tendancy to assume that others are as cool and rational as I perceive myself (note: perceive, not necessarily am), but perhaps this is not a reasonable point of view. I think this because I've seen others of you object.
To summarise, I'm not used to being considered a heretic and outcast of the Church. How can these people call us so when it was the reformation which taught election that their churches descended from? Do they know better than their ancestors? Seems hardly fair to label us as heretics when their heritage sprang from the same source, and they are the ones that have strayed, not us.
Your thoughts appreciated.
