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Death - My Final Answer!
- Thread starter FrenchyBearpaw
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They don't have to look very far to find one here, do they?
Psalm 14:1a The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God.
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Here's a great talk given by Sam Harris. In it explains the potential implications for religions if death is the end. "If we're right, and nothing happens after death, every religion ever devised is false."
It's bit long, but worth it. Enjoy!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ITTxTCz4Ums
That issue, of death, is a closed issue now. Settled. We can study the evidence. The long foretold Messiah did all that He was prophesied to do while here. Including die. Death is NOT final, because we saw Him risen from the dead. We also saw Him raise up dead people back to life.
No need to wonder at all any more. Done deal. It would be nice if you did not engage in Last Thursdayism and denial here, and try to question the integrity of the holy men of God of ages past.
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- Jan 17, 2005
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The devil has so called science. I have to admit it does crack me up.
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sfs
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I'm not about to watch a 56 minute video, but please tell me that Harris isn't so completely clueless as to think that every religion has believed in a meaningful afterlife.Here's a great talk given by Sam Harris. In it explains the potential implications for religions if death is the end. "If we're right, and nothing happens after death, every religion ever devised is false."
It's bit long, but worth it. Enjoy!
Sam Harris - Death and the Present Moment - YouTube
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I watched the first 3 minutes to find that unfortunately that does appear to be his position. I stopped watching after that.
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Wiccan_Child
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Actually, my solution explicitly allows for free will: God stops the consequences, but not the choices. God stops the rape from occurring, but not from people choosing to rape. If someone chose to try to rape someone to the extent that God had to intervene to stop it, then that is a choice they would be held accountable for.
"Ah", you might say, "But if people knew that any attempted raped would be thwarted, they wouldn't do it; wouldn't that infringe on free will?" - well, it turns out people are idiots, they really will try to do things that are basically guaranteed to fail; I refer you to the Darwin Awards.
Love and hope can certainly still exist - people can choose to love or not love, hope or not hope, and that is their free choice. They can also choose to rape someone, thought God will intervene to prevent any actual rape from occurring.
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Wiccan_Child
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Not at all - as I said, if the religion of atheism has all the smart people, and medicine, and technology, then I'll happily remain a follower.
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There's nothing like polishing brass on a sinking ship, is there?
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Further more God need not intervene so obviously to create a world with less suffering.
Imagine two possible universes: One is identical to ours in every way. They other is identical in every way except, due to very subtle changes in how I've perceived things in life, I accept christianity on my death bed.
Assuming christianity is correct. Two universes, almost totally identical. One in which I go to hell, one in which I go to heaven.
I have still chosen. there is no difference between the two in how free will operates.
An omnipotent, omniscient deity knows both these outcomes when it creates the universe. If this deity wants me to go to heaven, which universe will he create? Logically it must be the one in which I go to heaven.
Multiply this for every person to have ever existed. If a deity wants them to go to heaven then it is within his power to create a universe in which they chose, without violating free will any more than a universe in which made the opposite choice, to belive and go to heaven.
Free will, omniscience, omnipotence and benevolcence are logically incompatable.
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All this deity would have to do, is not prepare this place called Hell; then everyone would go to Heaven when they died, and Heaven and Earth would be just the same: murder, rape, shacking up, illegitimate children, child abuse, abortions, homosexuality, adultry, etc.
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Wiccan_Child
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I thought God stripped you of your free will when you get into Heaven?
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Wiccan_Child
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Why not? And does that mean we do, or we do not, have free will in Heaven? In heaven, can I choose between harp-playing and cloud-bouncing, or is the choice made for me?
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Do you think Adolf Hitler or Charles Darwin should be able to just saunter back and forth at will?
I would surmise we do.
I don't know.
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Wiccan_Child
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Well, why not? The best system would be based on the morality of their deeds which, if you believe in an afterlife, wouldn't stop after death - ergo, a revolving door.
Why should one's afterlife be fixed in stone? What if someone in Hell decides to worship Jesus - if that earns him Heaven in life, why wouldn't it earn him Heaven in death? Likewise, if someone gets into Heaven for being a Christian, but then stops worshipping Jesus, why should they remain?
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J
Joshua0
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Nothing on that level can compare with the Mind of Christ and the Divine thoughts of God. Science, medicine & technology is built on Creationism, not atheism.
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J
Joshua0
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People will have the same gifts, talents and abilities in Heaven that they had here on Earth. Only there of course they will honor God. Not mock Him like some people do here on earth. If someone were to mock you, what do you think we should do with them? Should we prepare your best guest room for them and move them into your house?
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