Death - My Final Answer!

[Lucy Stulz]

If you have better answers, feel free to list them.

Otherwise...

I just thought that, you know since academe and doctors of philosophy are often highly associated with the CHURCH that it was kind of out of place for you list them as bulwarks of atheism. Might want to learn the history of the Church. Ever hear of the Angelic Doctor? Familiar with most of the most famous universities which were often founded as religious institutions in the distant past?

 

[Lucy Stulz]

Romans 1:20-21
For his invisible attributes, namely, his eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly perceived, ever since the creation of the world, in the things that have been made. So they are without excuse. For although they knew God, they did not honor him as God or give thanks to him, but they became futile in their thinking, and their foolish hearts were darkened.

Not sure that is an answer to many atheists. Some atheists have looked for God pretty hard. That means that someone was hiding from them.

Who would be powerful enought to hide the creator of the universe from a simple ape?

 

[jdbrown]

I just thought that, you know since academe and doctors of philosophy are often highly associated with the CHURCH that it was kind of out of place for you list them as bulwarks of atheism. Might want to learn the history of the Church. Ever hear of the Angelic Doctor? Familiar with most of the most famous universities which were often founded as religious institutions in the distant past?

"Where God builds a church the devil builds a chapel." ~ Martin Luther

 

[quatona]

What if death is not the end and the Bible is true? What will you tell God at the judgement seat when He asks why He should let you into heaven?

Well, what will you tell him when he asks why he should let you into heaven?
(I wasn´t even aware that there is a discussion supposed to be going on at that point, btw.)

 

[quatona]

1. So this religion's houses of worship are called... Higher Academia.

Yeah, right, there are no theists in higher academia.

2. Its clergy are called... doctors of philosophy.

Yeah, right, all doctors of philosophy are atheists, and philosophy is all about promoting atheism.

3. Its holy texts are called... Peer-reviewed Articles.

Yeah, right, all peer-reviewed articles are written and peer-reviewed by atheists and promote atheism.

 

[jdbrown]

What if death is not the end and the Bible is true? What will you tell God at the judgement seat when He asks why He should let you into heaven?

I don't think that an atheist would want to get into heaven. I think that in the end, God will say to the atheist "Thy will be done."

 

[quatona]

I don't think that an atheist would want to get into heaven.

Why would you think that?

I think that in the end, God will say to the atheist "Thy will be done."

Will God ask them what they will?

 

[Wiccan_Child]

What if death is not the end and the Bible is true? What will you tell God at the judgement seat when He asks why He should let you into heaven?

"God, I based my beliefs on logic and reason, science and empiricism. I believed what could be demonstrated, and disbelieved what could not - this includes your own existence. I acted morally and compassionately to my fellow man and to my fellow animal, to the best of my knowledge and ability. I make no excuses for my beliefs or my actions.

"So... what happens next?"

 

[Wiccan_Child]

I don't think that an atheist would want to get into heaven.

Eternal bliss? I can't think of anything better.

I think that in the end, God will say to the atheist "Thy will be done."

If my will were done, there'd be no suffering on Earth. So let's hope he does say that, eh

 

[Wiccan_Child]

1. So this religion's houses of worship are called... Higher Academia.
2. Its clergy are called... Doctors of Philosophy.
3. Its holy texts are called... Peer-reviewed Articles.

So we have all the smart people, all the knowledge, all the technology, all the medicine? In that case, I think I'll stay.

 

[mathetes123]

Eternal bliss? I can't think of anything better.


If my will were done, there'd be no suffering on Earth. So let's hope he does say that, eh

To remove the suffering, he would need to remove from the earth the source of the suffering, which is sin.

 

[Wiccan_Child]

To remove the suffering, he would need to remove from the earth the source of the suffering, which is sin.

Maybe, maybe not. A magical shield that surrounds any child, woman, or man, who's about to be raped - bam, instant decrease in suffering. Magic that halts earthquakes before they begin - bam, instant decrease in suffering. Magic that poofs the first HIV virus (pardon the tautology) out of existence - bam, instant decrease in suffering. You don't need to lobotomise all humans to decrease suffering - not when you have an all-powerful deity!

Even if God has some baffling qualm against protecting innocents from the immoral choices of others, why would he be opposed to stopping natural disasters like drought or tsunamis?

 

[mathetes123]

Maybe, maybe not. A magical shield that surrounds any child, woman, or man, who's about to be raped - bam, instant decrease in suffering. Magic that halts earthquakes before they begin - bam, instant decrease in suffering. Magic that poofs the first HIV virus (pardon the tautology) out of existence - bam, instant decrease in suffering. You don't need to lobotomise all humans to decrease suffering - not when you have an all-powerful deity!

Even if God has some baffling qualm against protecting innocents from the immoral choices of others, why would he be opposed to stopping natural disasters like drought or tsunamis?

So your idea of a perfect deity is one who does not hold you responsible for your own actions and cleans up after your messes? Is this the way you would raise your children? God gave people free will. People chose sin. The suffering in the world is the result of sin.

 

[Wiccan_Child]

So your idea of a perfect deity is one who does not hold you responsible for your own actions and cleans up after your messes? Is this the way you would raise your children?

Yes, absolutely: if my child were about to kill someone, I'd first stop them, and then scold them (and maybe call the police, depending on their age and exactly what they were about to to).

We do the same in both of our legal systems: we hold people accountable for attempted murder and attempted rape, even if they never actually did the deed.

If someone's actions are about to lead to someone's rape, I see no reason why a loving deity wouldn't prevent the rape (a magical bubble, perhaps?), and hold the would-be rapist accountable for their actions - maybe they are thereafter damned to hell, maybe their pleasures in this life are remove. In any case, free will, moral agency, accountability and responsibility, and all the rest, are left intact, and we would have no more rapes and murders.

 

[Lucy Stulz]

I don't think that an atheist would want to get into heaven. I think that in the end, God will say to the atheist "Thy will be done."

Who's will s being done if a weak, limited being who simply failed to find the right god is to be punished by That Being Who Knows All And Sees All ?

 

[mathetes123]

Yes, absolutely: if my child were about to kill someone, I'd first stop them, and then scold them (and maybe call the police, depending on their age and exactly what they were about to to).

We do the same in both of our legal systems: we hold people accountable for attempted murder and attempted rape, even if they never actually did the deed.

If someone's actions are about to lead to someone's rape, I see no reason why a loving deity wouldn't prevent the rape (a magical bubble, perhaps?), and hold the would-be rapist accountable for their actions - maybe they are thereafter damned to hell, maybe their pleasures in this life are remove. In any case, free will, moral agency, accountability and responsibility, and all the rest, are left intact, and we would have no more rapes and murders.

Everyone will be held accountable for their actions whether in this life or the next.

Your solution to the sin problem would require that God create humans without free will. In a world without free will there can be no love, no purpose and no hope.

 

[AV1611VET]

I just thought that, you know since academe and doctors of philosophy are often highly associated with the CHURCH that it was kind of out of place for you list them as bulwarks of atheism. Might want to learn the history of the Church. Ever hear of the Angelic Doctor? Familiar with most of the most famous universities which were often founded as religious institutions in the distant past?

I know one evangelist who says PhD stands for "piled high devils."

Does this answer your post?

 

[AV1611VET]

Yeah, right, there are no theists in higher academia.

Yeah, right, all doctors of philosophy are atheists, and philosophy is all about promoting atheism.


Yeah, right, all peer-reviewed articles are written and peer-reviewed by atheists and promote atheism.

Then you answer his post, or kindly take your sarcasm elsewhere, please.

I'm not interested.

I'm not sure why you guys are responding to what I wrote anyway ... if not, of course, to vent & ridicule.

And believe me, I'm waiting for someone to claim I've hijacked this thread.

 

[AV1611VET]

So we have all the smart people, all the knowledge, all the technology, all the medicine? In that case, I think I'll stay.

Suit yourself.

You said, "fill in the blanks," and I filled in the blanks.

Is there a problem?

 

[Non sequitur]

Everyone will be held accountable for their actions whether in this life or the next.

Your solution to the sin problem would require that God create humans without free will. In a world without free will there can be no love, no purpose and no hope.

Just don't deem certain things that are as sins.

Done and done...