Death, Hell, and the Lake of Fire.

[Second Coming]

I did not "fail" .... I provided the Greek definition of the word perish (strongs concordance) ... and John 3:16 does not say eternal punishment ... nor does it say perishing (as in continuing).

***
Psalm 1:6 “But the way of the ungodly shall perish”

If one believes in eternal conscious hell, they don’t believe the ungodly perish at all– but live forever (immortal in hell).

Psalm 37:20 “But the wicked shall perish… they shall consume; into smoke shall they consume away.”

If one believes in eternal conscious hell, they don’t believe the wicked will be “consumed.” Instead, they believe the wicked are tortured and never consumed.

Psalm 69:28 says that the wicked are “blotted out of the book of the living.”

This continues the consistency of scripture which tells us the wicked die– not that they are eternally living in a conscious hell.

Ps. 34:16, 21 “evil brings death to the wicked.”

Of course, if one believes in eternal hell, one doesn’t believe that evil brings death at all, but brings eternal life– in hell.

Psalm 92:7 “… shall be destroyed forever.”

If one believes in eternal conscious hell, they don’t believe those who are lost are “destroyed” but again, that they live forever ... tortured in hell.

Prov. 24:20 “the lamp of the wicked will be snuffed out.”

To believe in eternal conscious hell means one believes they will not be snuffed out at all.

Dan. 2:35 “the wind swept them away without leaving a trace.”

This continues the theme of totally destroyed– there’s not a trace of the wicked. This is the opposite of eternal life in hell.

Isa. 1:28, 30–31 “rebels and sinners shall be destroyed together, and those who forsake the Lord shall be consumed.”

Obadiah 1:16 It will be as if the evil “had never been.“

This speaks to ceasing to exist– not eternal life in hell. In the traditional hell it will not be “as if they had never been” because they’ll live eternally and still “be.”

Mal 4:1 “All the arrogant and every evildoer will be stubble, and the day that is coming will set them on fire,” says the LORD Almighty. “Not a root or a branch will be left to them.”

Here God is quoted directly– the evildoers are destroyed like straw thrown into the fire, and nothing is left. This shows total annihilation (they no longer exist). To believe in eternal hell, one would have to argue that God was mistaken and that they aren’t destroyed in the fire at all– but live forever in the fire without being consumed, which is the exact opposite of what God claimed.

In the Old Testament they believed that the wicked are destroyed– that they die and do not get resurrected to eternal life. This is the testimony of the whole of scripture. To believe in eternal conscious hell is to really be at odds with the terminology we see scripture use. These same claims of annihilation and destruction continue in the New Testament:

Matthew 10:28 “Rather, fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.”

Here Jesus himself teaches against hell– saying that those who are lost experience the death of their soul. If one believes in eternal conscious hell, they believe Jesus was wrong on this point, and that souls don’t die at all, but will live forever in hell.

John 3:16 “…whosoever believeth in him should not perish”

Again, to believe in hell, one must believe Jesus was wrong in John 3:16 and that people don’t “perish” at all, but live forever in hell.

Matthew 7:13: “broad is the road that leads to destruction“

Jesus in his warnings continues with the repetitive testimony of scripture: the consequence of rejecting reconciliation with God is destruction– not everlasting life in torment.

Jesus on a variety of occasions uses the metaphor of fire that consumes not tortures: Matthew 7:19; Matthew 13:40; John 15:6

Philippians 3:19 “whose end is destruction…“

There’s that word again, “destroyed". Those who believe in eternal hell don’t believe one is destroyed in hell, but lives there forever .... being tortured by a loving God?

2 Thessalonians 1:9 “who shall be punished with everlasting destruction …”

The Bible is getting clear that the consequence of rejecting God is destruction, not eternal life in hell.

1 Cor 3:17: “God will destroy that person”

There’s that word again that doesn’t mean tortured in hell, but just means what it says– destroyed.

2 Cor 2:15-16: “those that perish“

Again, if Paul meant hell, he should have said it– seems like everyone talks about perishing, being destroyed– but doesn’t talk about hell.

Romans 6:23: “For the wages of sin is death..“

It’s perishing, dying, being destroyed.. the opposite of eternal life in hell.

Another version of the same term… destroyed.

James 4:12a “There is one lawgiver, who is able to save and to destroy.”

We are to understand to be “destroyed” is the natural consequence…

2 Peter 2:3: “Their condemnation from long ago is not idle, and their destruction is not asleep.”

Revelation 20:14 “This is the second death…”

Then death and the grave were thrown into the lake of fire. This lake of fire is the second death.

Those who believe in eternal conscious hell don’t believe in the second death– they believe everyone is immortal, and that some will live forever in hell with God burning and torturing them for eternity. Revelation 20:14 is clear that they die – they don’t live forever in hell at all.

The word “perish” can refer to eternal punishment in hell that’s where you’re going wrong and confused.

 

[reddogs]

No it’s clearly not the Bible; it’s the writings of the church fathers which are very valuable pieces of history and important writings.

Its pagan ideas and Greek philosophy mixed in, as it got picked up with the Greek translations. The Jews had little actual teachings on the concept of 'Hell' as a place where Satan was in charge with demons running around with pitchforks. It got picked up from pagan and Greek thought, and became seen as a place of eternal torment with demons in charger where sinners were punished forever, so you can see how todays idea of Hell evolved.

So lets look at what seems to come nearest to this which is 'Hades.' This Greek word is also translated 'Hell' in many English Bibles, such as the King James Version. In Revelation 6:8, the King James Version refers to 'Death, and Hell' [Hades]. It does this same in Revelation 20:14. Yet some English Bibles leave the word 'Hades' itself, such as the New King James Version, which translates Revelation 6:8 and 20:14 as 'Death, and Hades.' Now here's a key point: in Revelation 20:14 'Hades'('Hell') is eventually 'cast into the lake of fire.' Thus 'Hades' itself is not a fiery place, but is cast into 'the lake of fire.'

Here is Revelation 20:14 in both the KJV and NIV:
And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire(Revelation 20:14, King James Version)

Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire (Revelation 20:14, New King James Version)

In King James Version, there is a marginal reference beside the word 'Hell'(Hades) listed in Revelation 20:13 and 14. It says 'Hell' literally means 'the grave.' Thus Revelation 20:14 could properly be translated, 'death and the grave were cast into the lake of fire.' This makes sense.

To make it simple, 'Hades' literally means 'the grave.' This is easy to prove from 1 Corinthians 15:55, which in the King James Version states,
O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory?(1 Corinthians 15:55)

If you look in any Strong's Concordance, you'll discover that the original Greek word here translated 'grave' is 'Hades.' By looking at the context, its obvious that 'Hades' means 'the grave' because it is Gods saints who rise out of 'Hades' when Jesus Christ returns. See for yourself:

"Behold, I shew you a mystery; we shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up on victory. O death, where is your sting? O grave [Hades] where is your victory?" (1 Corinthians 15:51-55, King James Version)

Additional proof that 'Hades' means 'the grave' is the fact that 'Hades' was the place Jesus Christs body rested in immediately after His death. In Acts 2:31, the King James Version declares,
His [or Christs] soul was not left in hell [or Hades] neither his flesh did see corruption (Acts 2:31,KJV ).

The New International Version translates Acts 2:31 as, "He was not abandoned to the grave, nor did his body see decay "(Acts 2:31, NIV)

Thus Christs 'body'(NIV) or 'flesh'(KJV) was not allowed to see 'corruption'(KJV) or 'decay'(NIV) because it remained in the grave only a short time before He rose.

So the meaning of the three Greek words translated 'Hell' in our English Bibles:
'Tartarus' means 'a place of darkness or restraint'(2 Peter 2:4). Satan abides there now.

'Hades' means 'the grave'(Acts 2:31; 1 Corinthians 15:55; Revelation 20:14). Jesus Christs body rested there, and His saints rest there now awaiting the resurrection.

'Gehenna' means a place of fire, brimstone, and punishment (Matthew 5:22, 29, 30, also Matthew 13:40-42, 2 Peter 3:7, 10-12). These flames are yet future, at the end of the world.

So Greek mythology and myths along with the translation caused many issues but at the end when Christ comes and sin is destroyed in the final fire, as the wicked perish, the Bible declares:
Whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire (Revelation 20:15).

 

[reddogs]

Now is "Hell" burning now under our feet with our friends and loved ones who have gone to the grave being purified, or with those wicked who have no interest in following God or His commandments?

Lets see what the Bible says...
2 Peter 2:9 King James Version (KJV)

"9 The Lord knoweth how to deliver the godly out of temptations, and to reserve the unjust unto the day of judgment to be punished:"

So where are the saints and the wicked now who have already died?

John 5:28-29 King James Version (KJV)

"28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation."

Job 21:30-32 King James Version (KJV)

"30 That the wicked is reserved to the day of destruction? they shall be brought forth to the day of wrath.
31 Who shall declare his way to his face? and who shall repay him what he hath done?
32 Yet shall he be brought to the grave, and shall remain in the tomb."

Both the saints who passed away and the wicked who have died are in their graves “sleeping” until the resurrection day.

The Greeks and the Egyptians before them, created myths of the afterlife which spread throughout the Hellenistic world. They got picked up by words which were used when the Hebrew text was translated into the Greek. Scripture clearly rejects the Greek notion of the immortality of the soul disembodied from the here and now as spirit beings, and early Christians affirmed the resurrection of the body just as Lazuras was resurrected by Christ. So there is no place for a underworld depicted in Greek myths or place of cleansing by fire such as purgotary where spirit beings are left till they are ready to be reunited with God, it comes from other origins which we shall see.

The idea of the underworld or purgatory was from the pagan belief of caring for the dead and praying for them, and their belief that prayer for the dead contributed to their afterlife purification. Pagan tradition created this place of purgatory which leaves hope after death for the wicked, who, at the time of their death, are unrepentant and cling to their love of sin.

In Egypt, its priests created grand funerals and masses for the dead, along with celebration of prayer and other services for the soul of the dead. They had elaborate ceremonies to prepare the dead as we see with the pharaohs for their next life, constructing massive pyramids and other elaborate tombs filled with luxuries the dead would use. The pagan Egyptian belief was when the body died, parts of its soul known as ka (body double) and the ba (personality) would go to the Kingdom of the Dead.

According to Herodotus, eventually the Greeks adopted from the Egyptians the belief in the immortality of the soul. He wrote: “The Egyptians also were the first who asserted the doctrine that the soul of man is immortal . . . This opinion, some among the Greeks have at different periods of time adopted as their own.” The Greek philosopher Socrates (470-399 B. C.) traveled to Egypt to consult the Egyptians on their teachings on the immortality of the soul. Upon his return to Greece, he imparted this teaching to his most famous pupil, Plato.......

In Greece the ideas picked up from the Egyptians by their mercenary's and philosophers who came into contact with them, was spread through the Greek mystery religions. Plato, speaking of the future judgment of the dead, holds out the hope of final deliverance for all, but maintains that, of "those who are judged," some must first "proceed to a subterranean place of judgment, where they shall sustain the punishment they have deserved." The ancient Greeks sacrificed on the thirteenth day (after death) to Mercury as the conductor of the dead, they also had sacrifice which, according to Plato, "was offered for the living and the dead, and was supposed to free them from all the evils to which the wicked are liable when they have left this world.

In ancient Rome, the pagan priests also picked up these ideas, but as a belief in the early church it was not immediately picked up. From earliest times Greek religious beliefs were a strong influence in Italy, and the Graeco-Roman world was essentially one in its religious and philosophic views of the afterlife. There was no mention of the doctrine during the first two centuries of the church, it has no basis in scripture, the apostles did not teach it, nor did Christ.

In all pagan religions you will find a similar description of a place after death where everyone can be absolved of their sin, not in any way connected to what the Bible says. The ideas which come from purgatory is purely pagan, and in no way from scripture as those who die in Christ no purgatory is or can be needed as it teaches that Christs blood cleanseth true believers from all sin, not fires of Hell or Hades. Scripture clearly teaches that immortality is not an innate human possession, but a conditional gift of eternal life given to believers at the resurrection.


In fact, neither the word nor the concept of sin-purifying fire is found in Scripture or worse paying to cleanse a dead person of sin as a way to heaven. Scripture leaves absolutely no possibility for sin to be purged away by anything other than the blood of Jesus Christ. The Roman church was confronted with this in the 16th century when the Reformers protested its practice of buying and selling of God's grace through indulgences. Backed into a corner, the Council of Trent tried to tie it to the apocryphal books not part of the canon of Scripture. These were a collection of uninspired books by writers influenced by the Greek belief in the immortality of the soul, prayer for the dead, and denial of the resurrection, who put these teachings what in what was known as the Apocrypha. The council ignored the fact that the Jewish scribes never recognized the apocryphal books as inspired or part of the Hebrew Scriptures and it was rejected outright in 90 A.D. at the Council of Jamnia (Jabneh). Clearly they saw the danger as it was obviously pagan myths and beliefs mixed into these apocryphal books and they clearly saw that God did not inspire the writers of the Apocrypha. This is why the Apocrypha was never included in the original canon of 66 books.

 

[Second Coming]

Its pagan ideas and Greek philosophy mixed in, as it got picked up with the Greek translations. The Jews had little actual teachings on the concept of ‘Hell’ as a place where Satan was in charge with demons running around with pitchforks. It got picked up from pagan and Greek thought, and became seen as a place of eternal torment with demons in charger where sinners were punished forever, so you can see how todays idea of Hell evolved.

But those are the writings of the Church Fathers, the early leadership of the church. I’m not sure if you are familiar with who they are and of what value their writings are. Maybe you need to do a study on the Church Fathers because you don’t seem to be understanding. When they write of eternal punishment they write with authority.

 

[Hieronymus]

The Bible clearly teaches eternal punishment:

Matthew 25:31-46
Mark 9:43-48
Luke 16:19-31

The 2nd death is indeed eternal.
Life in Christ or perish.
No eternal life in the lake of fire.

 

[Second Coming]

The 2nd death is indeed eternal.
Life in Christ or perish.
No eternal life in the lake of fire.

Those verses aren’t debatable; they are a powerful testimony that eternal punishment is real. There is nothing debatable about them they are powerful.

 

[Second Coming]

But those are the writings of the Church Fathers, the early leadership of the church. I’m not sure if you are familiar with who they are and of what value their writings are. Maybe you need to do a study on the Church Fathers because you don’t seem to be understanding. When they write of eternal punishment they write with authority.

I’ll post it again because he seems to not be understanding.

 

[Second Coming]

The Early Church Fathers on Hell

The Early Fathers believed in a literal hell. A place where unrepentant sinners would spend their eternity separated from God. A place where all hope would be abandoned and where misery and suffering would be a constant companion. The idea that the Bibles torturous descriptions of hell were somehow symbolic of non-existence, as Jehovah’s Witnesses claim, was something that would have been totally foreign to them. To the Fathers, if Jesus said that something was eternal and torturous, (Matthew 25:46, Luke 16:24) then that is what it was. Rather than water down Jesus words they instead chose to use them to warn the faithful as Jesus Himself did.


Ignatius of Antioch

Corrupters of families will not inherit the kingdom of God. And if they who do these things according to the flesh suffer death, how much more if a man corrupt by evil reaching the faith of God for the sake of which Jesus Christ was crucified? A man become so foul will depart into unquenchable fire, and so will anyone who listens to him (Letter to the Ephesians 16:1-2 [A.D. 110]).


Clement of Rome

If we do the will of Christ, we shall obtain rest; but if not, if we neglect his commandments, nothing will rescue us from eternal punishment (Second Clement 5:5 [A.D. 150]).


Justin Martyr

No more is it possible for the evildoer, the avaricious, and the treacherous to hide from God than it is for the virtuous. Every man will receive the eternal punishment or reward which his actions deserve. Indeed, if all men recognized this, no one would choose evil even for a short time, knowing that he would incur the eternal sentence of fire. On the contrary, he would take every means to control himself and to adorn himself in virtue, so that he might obtain the good gifts of God and escape the punishments (First Apology 12 [A.D. 151]).

[Jesus] shall come from the heavens in glory with his angelic host, when he shall raise the bodies of all the men who ever lived. Then he will clothe the worthy in immortality; but the wicked, clothed in eternal sensibility, he will commit to the eternal fire, along with the evil demons (ibid. 52).


The Martyrdom of Polycarp

Fixing their minds on the grace of Christ, [the martyrs] despised worldly tortures and purchased eternal life with but a single hour. To them, the fire of their cruel torturers was cold. They kept before their eyes their escape from the eternal and unquenchable fire (Martyrdom of Polycarp 2:3 [A.D. 155]).


Athenagoras

We [Christians] are persuaded that when we are removed from this present life we shall live another life, better than the present one. . . . Then we shall abide near God and with God, changeless and free from suffering in the soul . . . or if we fall with the rest [of mankind], a worse one and in fire; for God has not made us as sheep or beasts of burden, a mere incidental work, that we should perish and be annihilated (Plea for the Christians 31 [A.D. 177]).


Theophilus of Antioch

Give studious attention to the prophetic writings [the Bible] and they will lead you on a clearer path to escape the eternal punishments and to obtain the eternal good things of God.... [God] will examine everything and will judge justly, granting recompense to each according to merit. To those who seek immortally by the patient exercise of good works, he will give everlasting life, joy, peace, rest, and all good things. . . , For the unbelievers and for the contemptuous and for those who do not submit to the truth but assent to iniquity, when they have been involved in adulteries, and fornications, and homosexualities, and avarice, and in lawless idolatries, there will be wrath and indignation, tribulation and anguish; and in the end, such men as these will be detained in everlasting fire (To Autolycus 1:14 [A.D. 181]).


Irenaeus

The penalty increases for those who do not believe the Word of God and despise his coming. . . . It is not merely temporal, but eternal. To whomsoever the Lord shall say, "Depart from me, accursed ones, into the everlasting fire," they will be damned forever (Against Heresies4:28:2 [A.D. 189]).


Hippolytus

Standing before [Christ's] judgment, all of them, men, angels, and demons, crying out in one voice, shall say: "Just is your judgment!" And the righteousness of that cry will be apparent in the recompense made to each. To those who have done well, everlasting enjoyment shall be given; while to the lovers of evil shall be given eternal punishment. The unquenchable and unending fire awaits these latter, and a certain fiery worm which does not die and which does not waste the body but continually bursts forth from the body with unceasing pain. No sleep will give them rest; no night will soothe them; no death will deliver them from punishment; no appeal of interceding friends will profit them (Against the Greeks3 [A.D. 212]).


Minucius Felix

I am not ignorant of the fact that many, in the consciousness of what they deserve, would rather hope than actually believe that there is nothing for them after death. They would prefer to be annihilated rather than be restored for punishment. . . . Nor is there measure nor end to these torments. That clever fire burns the limbs and restores them, wears them away and yet sustains them, just as fiery thunderbolts strike bodies but do not consume them (Octavius34:12-5:3 [A.D. 226]).


Cyprian of Carthage

An ever-burning Gehenna and the punishment of being devoured by living flames will consume the condemned; nor will there be any way in which the tormented can ever have respite or be at an end. Souls along with their bodies will be preserved for suffering in unlimited agonies. . . . The grief at punishment will then be without the fruit of repentance; weeping will be useless, and prayer ineffectual. Too late will they believe in eternal punishment, who would not believe in eternal life (To Demetrian 24 [A.D. 252]).


Lactantius

We therefore speak better and more truly, who say that the two ways belong to heaven and hell, because immortality is promised to the righteous, and everlasting punishment is threatened to the unrighteous (Divine Institutes 6 [A.D. 307]).


Cyril of Jerusalem

We shall be raised therefore, all with our bodies eternal, but not all with bodies alike; For if a man is righteous, he will receive a heavenly body, that he may be able worthily to hold converse with angels; but if a man is a sinner, he shall receive an eternal body, fitted to endure the penalties of sins, that he may burn eternally in fire, nor ever be consumed. And righteously will God assign this portion to either company; for we do nothing without the body. We blaspheme with the mouth, and with the mouth we pray. With the body we commit fornication, and with the body we keep chastity. With the hand we rob, and by the hand we bestow alms; and the rest in like manner. Since then the body has been our minister in all things, it shall also share with us in the future the fruits of the past (Catechetical Lectures18:19 [A.D. 350]).


John Chrysostom

This is no small subject of enquiry which we propose, but rather about things which are of the first necessity and which all men enquire about; namely, whether hell fire have any end. For that it hath no end Christ indeed declared when he said, "Their fire shall not be quenched, and their worm shall not die” (Homily 9 on 1 Corinthians 3:12-15[circa A.D. 388]).

 

[Second Coming]

Church Fathers - Wikipedia

Who were the Church Fathers? | Catholic Answers

Church Fathers - New World Encyclopedia

Who were the early church fathers?

 

[Second Coming]

The 2nd death is indeed eternal.
Life in Christ or perish.
No eternal life in the lake of fire.

You have said nothing to refute the three scriptures I posted and so they stand as a powerful testimony of eternal punishment.

 

[reddogs]

The Early Church Fathers on Hell

The Early Fathers believed in a literal hell. A place where unrepentant sinners would spend their eternity separated from God. A place where all hope would be abandoned and where misery and suffering would be a constant companion. The idea that the Bibles torturous descriptions of hell were somehow symbolic of non-existence, as Jehovah’s Witnesses claim, was something that would have been totally foreign to them. To the Fathers, if Jesus said that something was eternal and torturous, (Matthew 25:46, Luke 16:24) then that is what it was. Rather than water down Jesus words they instead chose to use them to warn the faithful as Jesus Himself did.


Ignatius of Antioch

Corrupters of families will not inherit the kingdom of God. And if they who do these things according to the flesh suffer death, how much more if a man corrupt by evil reaching the faith of God for the sake of which Jesus Christ was crucified? A man become so foul will depart into unquenchable fire, and so will anyone who listens to him (Letter to the Ephesians 16:1-2 [A.D. 110]).


Clement of Rome

If we do the will of Christ, we shall obtain rest; but if not, if we neglect his commandments, nothing will rescue us from eternal punishment (Second Clement 5:5 [A.D. 150]).


Justin Martyr

No more is it possible for the evildoer, the avaricious, and the treacherous to hide from God than it is for the virtuous. Every man will receive the eternal punishment or reward which his actions deserve. Indeed, if all men recognized this, no one would choose evil even for a short time, knowing that he would incur the eternal sentence of fire. On the contrary, he would take every means to control himself and to adorn himself in virtue, so that he might obtain the good gifts of God and escape the punishments (First Apology 12 [A.D. 151]).

[Jesus] shall come from the heavens in glory with his angelic host, when he shall raise the bodies of all the men who ever lived. Then he will clothe the worthy in immortality; but the wicked, clothed in eternal sensibility, he will commit to the eternal fire, along with the evil demons (ibid. 52).


The Martyrdom of Polycarp

Fixing their minds on the grace of Christ, [the martyrs] despised worldly tortures and purchased eternal life with but a single hour. To them, the fire of their cruel torturers was cold. They kept before their eyes their escape from the eternal and unquenchable fire (Martyrdom of Polycarp 2:3 [A.D. 155]).


Athenagoras

We [Christians] are persuaded that when we are removed from this present life we shall live another life, better than the present one. . . . Then we shall abide near God and with God, changeless and free from suffering in the soul . . . or if we fall with the rest [of mankind], a worse one and in fire; for God has not made us as sheep or beasts of burden, a mere incidental work, that we should perish and be annihilated (Plea for the Christians 31 [A.D. 177]).


Theophilus of Antioch

Give studious attention to the prophetic writings [the Bible] and they will lead you on a clearer path to escape the eternal punishments and to obtain the eternal good things of God.... [God] will examine everything and will judge justly, granting recompense to each according to merit. To those who seek immortally by the patient exercise of good works, he will give everlasting life, joy, peace, rest, and all good things. . . , For the unbelievers and for the contemptuous and for those who do not submit to the truth but assent to iniquity, when they have been involved in adulteries, and fornications, and homosexualities, and avarice, and in lawless idolatries, there will be wrath and indignation, tribulation and anguish; and in the end, such men as these will be detained in everlasting fire (To Autolycus 1:14 [A.D. 181]).


Irenaeus

The penalty increases for those who do not believe the Word of God and despise his coming. . . . It is not merely temporal, but eternal. To whomsoever the Lord shall say, "Depart from me, accursed ones, into the everlasting fire," they will be damned forever (Against Heresies4:28:2 [A.D. 189]).


Hippolytus

Standing before [Christ's] judgment, all of them, men, angels, and demons, crying out in one voice, shall say: "Just is your judgment!" And the righteousness of that cry will be apparent in the recompense made to each. To those who have done well, everlasting enjoyment shall be given; while to the lovers of evil shall be given eternal punishment. The unquenchable and unending fire awaits these latter, and a certain fiery worm which does not die and which does not waste the body but continually bursts forth from the body with unceasing pain. No sleep will give them rest; no night will soothe them; no death will deliver them from punishment; no appeal of interceding friends will profit them (Against the Greeks3 [A.D. 212]).


Minucius Felix

I am not ignorant of the fact that many, in the consciousness of what they deserve, would rather hope than actually believe that there is nothing for them after death. They would prefer to be annihilated rather than be restored for punishment. . . . Nor is there measure nor end to these torments. That clever fire burns the limbs and restores them, wears them away and yet sustains them, just as fiery thunderbolts strike bodies but do not consume them (Octavius34:12-5:3 [A.D. 226]).


Cyprian of Carthage

An ever-burning Gehenna and the punishment of being devoured by living flames will consume the condemned; nor will there be any way in which the tormented can ever have respite or be at an end. Souls along with their bodies will be preserved for suffering in unlimited agonies. . . . The grief at punishment will then be without the fruit of repentance; weeping will be useless, and prayer ineffectual. Too late will they believe in eternal punishment, who would not believe in eternal life (To Demetrian 24 [A.D. 252]).


Lactantius

We therefore speak better and more truly, who say that the two ways belong to heaven and hell, because immortality is promised to the righteous, and everlasting punishment is threatened to the unrighteous (Divine Institutes 6 [A.D. 307]).


Cyril of Jerusalem

We shall be raised therefore, all with our bodies eternal, but not all with bodies alike; For if a man is righteous, he will receive a heavenly body, that he may be able worthily to hold converse with angels; but if a man is a sinner, he shall receive an eternal body, fitted to endure the penalties of sins, that he may burn eternally in fire, nor ever be consumed. And righteously will God assign this portion to either company; for we do nothing without the body. We blaspheme with the mouth, and with the mouth we pray. With the body we commit fornication, and with the body we keep chastity. With the hand we rob, and by the hand we bestow alms; and the rest in like manner. Since then the body has been our minister in all things, it shall also share with us in the future the fruits of the past (Catechetical Lectures18:19 [A.D. 350]).


John Chrysostom

This is no small subject of enquiry which we propose, but rather about things which are of the first necessity and which all men enquire about; namely, whether hell fire have any end. For that it hath no end Christ indeed declared when he said, "Their fire shall not be quenched, and their worm shall not die” (Homily 9 on 1 Corinthians 3:12-15[circa A.D. 388]).

Many misunderstandings and wrong ideas because of the Greek, that is why we need to go to the Bible, not mans ideas and traditions....

 

[Second Coming]

Many misunderstandings and wrong ideas because of the Greek, that is why we need to go to the Bible, not mans ideas and traditions....

These are the leaders of the early church; Bishops and such.....

 

[Second Coming]

Many misunderstandings and wrong ideas because of the Greek, that is why we need to go to the Bible, not mans ideas and traditions....

The Bible clearly teaches eternal punishment:

Matthew 25:31-46
Mark 9:43-48
Luke 16:19-31

 

[reddogs]

Church Fathers - Wikipedia

Who were the Church Fathers? | Catholic Answers

By the second century they had already begun to mix the Hellenistic paganism so you can see how it came.
Lets look at what happens for both the good and the bad after death, and where the saints will go and also the ultimate destruction of the wicked in the Lake of Fire, but which because of the Greek words used in translating from the Hebrew text has become confused with Greek myths. Christians picked up these false ideas and pagan beliefs of immortality of the soul, that a part of, or essence of, or spirit being of an individual, which carries with it and confers personal identity, survives the death of the body of this world and this lifetime, by natural or supernatural means. This is at odds and in contrast to the scriptural teaching that the dead go to the grave and know nothing and at the end, a eternal oblivion of the wicked and a eternal life for the saints.

The Greeks had come up with myths that all the dead dwell below the earth in the realm of Hades and Persephon, good and bad alike, leading a shadowy and cheerless existence. The Greek god Hades was the king of the underworld, a place where souls live after death. The Greek god Hermes, the messenger of the gods, would take the dead soul of a person to the underworld (sometimes called Hades or the House of Hades). Hermes would leave the soul on the banks of the River Styx, the river between life and death. Charon, also known as the ferry-man, would take the soul across the river to Hades.

From the sixth century BC onwards the Greeks developed pagan ideas for the dead, and of reincarnation and even transmigration of souls. These ideas are particularly associated with the pagan Greek Religious Mysteries or Eleusinian mysteries , where initiation in this life into its mysteries are the prerequisites for getting to paradise in the next life. So you see where the Greek words used came loaded with ideas not in line with the original Hebrew, but since at the time, Greek was used as basically English is used today to communicate between people across the world, it was translated into these Greek words, and we have to go back to what the original Hebrew scribes words they wrote to understand their meaning.

 

[reddogs]

God does not grant 'eternal' life in punishment to the wicked, you need to read line by line, precept upon precept as it says. Now Hades is the Greek word used for the Hebrew word Sheol in Greek translations of the Hebrew Bible. While earlier translations most often translated Hades as "hell", as does the King James Version, modern translations use the transliteration "Hades", or render the word as allusions "to the grave", "among the dead", "place of the dead" and many other like statements in other verses. In Latin, Hades began to incorrectly be translated as Purgatorium (Purgatory in English) after about 1200 A.D., but no modern English translations put Hades as Purgatory. In the King James Bible, the Old Testament term Sheol is translated as "Hell" 31 times. However, Sheol was translated as "the grave" 31 other times. Sheol is also translated as "the pit" three times. Modern translations, however, no longer translate Sheol as "Hell" at all, instead rendering it more correct as "the grave," "the pit," or "death."

 

[Second Coming]

Ridiculous!!!!!

The scriptures are clear about eternal punishment.

 

[reddogs]

Eternal punishment is eternal death with no chance of return.

That is the correct meaning as how could simple shepherds understand if God said he could not resurrect when it came to some people and then wait for the resurrection. There had to be a clear distinction as the wicked do not want to be with God, they chose to separate themselves from God, which leads to death eternal.

Scripture tells us that the dead are awaiting resurrection at the last judgment, when Christ comes and also when each person will receive his reward (Matt 8:11-12; II Cor 5:10; Rev 20:12), and a time of surprises for some when individuals who have proclaimed their fidelity to Jesus who will discover that in fact, they have no relation to him at all and are part of those lost with the wicked, while others who have made no claims for themselves but like the thief on the cross had faith, will find their lives rewarded with eternal life along with the other saints. (Matt 7:21-23; Luke 13:25-30).

In the Hebrew text it teaches that when people die they go to sheol, the grave (Gen. 37:35), Gehenna which is the consuming by fire of the wicked (Matt 5:22-29; 10:28; 18:9; 23:33; Mark 9:43, 45, 47; Luke 12:5; James 3:6). Which when the grave or the eternal oblivion of the wicked was translated into Greek, the word Hades was sometimes used, which is a term for the realm of the dead. (Matt 11:23; Luke 10:15; Rev 1:18; 6:8; 20:13-14). Nevertheless the meaning depending on context was the grave, death, or the end of the wicked in which they are ultimately destroyed in the specific way in which scripture shows at the end, which is a consuming fire which destroys them for eternity ("The lake of fire" Rev 20:15)

So we see where the grave or death or eventual destruction of the wicked, was translated using Greek words that since they had no exact ones to use, became a mix of mistranslation, pagan influence, and Greek myth associated with the word, but its original meaning was simple death or the destruction of the wicked at the end. “Hades” was simply the word closest in meaning to the Hebrew “Sheol”. The new versions now leave the word 'Sheol' untranslated, which is better than the Greek words used which cause confusion if the necessary basic Hebrew to Greek word translation used at the time is not understood.

 

[Second Coming]

The Church has always taught eternal punishment.

 

[Second Coming]

This is unorthodox heresy.

 

[Second Coming]

The Bible clearly teaches eternal punishment:

Matthew 25:31-46
Mark 9:43-48
Luke 16:19-31