Death, Hell, and the Lake of Fire.

reddogs

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There are those who say that if you are acquainted with the Bible and deny the eternal punishment of the wicked, you are not honest. That if the judgment of the wicked is not forever, then salvation of the saints is not forever, because the term of forever is used of both.
So is the judgment of the wicked forever or can they escape it by doing a little time in the fires of hell as some teach. Can the Devil as a being created by God, also continue forever then, and sin continue. What happens at the end and can we find the answers in scripture?
 

reddogs

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Well lets see what scripture says, lets look at what will happen to the being created by God who brought sin into the world..

Ezekiel 28 King James Version (KJV)

"11 Moreover the word of the Lord came unto me, saying,
12 Son of man, take up a lamentation upon the king of Tyrus, and say unto him, Thus saith the Lord God; Thou sealest up the sum, full of wisdom, and perfect in beauty.
13 Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God; every precious stone was thy covering, the sardius, topaz, and the diamond, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold: the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created.
14 Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire.
15 Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee.
16 By the multitude of thy merchandise they have filled the midst of thee with violence, and thou hast sinned: therefore I will cast thee as profane out of the mountain of God: and I will destroy thee, O covering cherub, from the midst of the stones of fire.
17 Thine heart was lifted up because of thy beauty, thou hast corrupted thy wisdom by reason of thy brightness: I will cast thee to the ground, I will lay thee before kings, that they may behold thee.
18 Thou hast defiled thy sanctuaries by the multitude of thine iniquities, by the iniquity of thy traffick; therefore will I bring forth a fire from the midst of thee, it shall devour thee, and I will bring thee to ashes upon the earth in the sight of all them that behold thee.
19 All they that know thee among the people shall be astonished at thee: thou shalt be a terror, and never shalt thou be any more."
 
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A_Thinker

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There are those who say that if you are acquainted with the Bible and deny the eternal punishment of the wicked, you are not honest. That if the judgment of the wicked is not forever, then salvation of the saints is not forever, because the term of forever is used of both.
So is the judgment of the wicked forever or can they escape it by doing a little time in the fires of hell as some teach. Can the Devil as a being created by God, also continue forever then, and sin continue. What happens at the end and can we find the answers in scripture?

I'd say that the larger themes in scripture equate GOD'S JUDGMENT with DEATH/DESTRUCTION ... and GOD'S BLESSING with LIFE, ... both enduring FOREVER.

For God so loved the world that HE gave His only begotten Son, that WHOSOEVER believes in Him shall NOT PERISH, but have EVERLASTING LIFE. John 3:16

For the wages of sin is DEATH, but the gift of God is EVERLASTING LIFE, ... through Christ Jesus our Lord. Romans 6:23

I also that the Jews didn't believe in ECT, nor does the Old Testament suggest it. Also, Paul never spoke of it.

The only real mention of ECT in the scriptures is in Revelation ... for the Beast, the False Prophet, the Dragon, and the worshippers of the Beast.
 
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reddogs

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Now this is not just for Satan but is also for the wicked...

Psalm 37:20 King James Version (KJV)

20 But the wicked shall perish, and the enemies of the Lord shall be as the fat of lambs: they shall consume; into smoke shall they consume away.

Isaiah 41:11 King James Version (KJV)

11 Behold, all they that were incensed against thee shall be ashamed and confounded: they shall be as nothing; and they that strive with thee shall perish.

Malachi 4 King James Version (KJV)

1 For, behold, the day cometh, that shall burn as an oven; and all the proud, yea, and all that do wickedly, shall be stubble: and the day that cometh shall burn them up, saith the Lord of hosts, that it shall leave them neither root nor branch.
2 But unto you that fear my name shall the Sun of righteousness arise with healing in his wings; and ye shall go forth, and grow up as calves of the stall.
3 And ye shall tread down the wicked; for they shall be ashes under the soles of your feet in the day that I shall do this, saith the Lord of hosts."
 
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BobRyan

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There are those who say that if you are acquainted with the Bible and deny the eternal punishment of the wicked, you are not honest. That if the judgment of the wicked is not forever, then salvation of the saints is not forever, because the term of forever is used of both.
So is the judgment of the wicked forever or can they escape it by doing a little time in the fires of hell as some teach. Can the Devil as a being created by God, also continue forever then, and sin continue. What happens at the end and can we find the answers in scripture?

1. The punishment of the wicked is eternal in that they will not come back from it - it surely will wipe them out.
2. Jesus said "fear Him who can destroy BOTH body (physical body) AND SOUL in fiery hell" Matthew 10:28
3. Rev 14 does describe the second death fire and brimstone as torment ... so certainly there is that. But the ending point once it is done is just as Christ said in Matthew 10:28

But you have to be careful because in some areas Matthew 10:28 is forbidden for that very reason.
 
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reddogs

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I'd say that the larger themes in scripture equate JUDGMENT with DEATH/DESTRUCTION ... and GOD'S BLESSING with LIFE, ... both enduring FOREVER.

For God so loved the world that HE gave His only begotten Son, that WHOSOEVER believes in Him shall NOT PERISH, but have EVERLASTING LIFE. John 3:16

For the wages of sin is DEATH, but the gift of God is EVERLASTING LIFE, ... through Christ Jesus our Lord. Romans 6:23

I also that the Jews didn't believe in ECT, nor does the Old Testament suggest it. Also, Paul never spoke of it.

The only real mention of ECT in the scriptures is in Revelation ... for the Beast, the False Prophet, the Dragon, and the worshippers of the Beast.

Did you notice the word 'perish' in your post.....

Psalm 68 King James Version (KJV)

"1 Let God arise, let his enemies be scattered: let them also that hate him flee before him.
2 As smoke is driven away, so drive them away: as wax melteth before the fire, so let the wicked perish at the presence of God."

Psalm 73:27 King James Version (KJV)

"27 For, lo, they that are far from thee shall perish: thou hast destroyed all them that go a whoring from thee."

2 Thessalonians 2:10 King James Version (KJV)

"10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved."

2 Peter 2:12 King James Version (KJV)

"12 But these, as natural brute beasts, made to be taken and destroyed, speak evil of the things that they understand not; and shall utterly perish in their own corruption;"

2 Peter 3:9-12 King James Version (KJV)

"9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,
12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?"
 
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Hieronymus

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There are those who say that if you are acquainted with the Bible and deny the eternal punishment of the wicked, you are not honest. That if the judgment of the wicked is not forever, then salvation of the saints is not forever, because the term of forever is used of both.
So is the judgment of the wicked forever or can they escape it by doing a little time in the fires of hell as some teach. Can the Devil as a being created by God, also continue forever then, and sin continue. What happens at the end and can we find the answers in scripture?
In the end God will be all in all.
Should be evident that does not include the perished wicked, but those who have eternal life.
 
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BobRyan

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Well lets see what scripture says, lets look at what will happen to the being created by God who brought sin into the world..

Ezekiel 28 King James Version (KJV)

16 By the multitude of thy merchandise they have filled the midst of thee with violence, and thou hast sinned: therefore I will cast thee as profane out of the mountain of God: and I will destroy thee, O covering cherub, from the midst of the stones of fire.
17 Thine heart was lifted up because of thy beauty, thou hast corrupted thy wisdom by reason of thy brightness: I will cast thee to the ground, I will lay thee before kings, that they may behold thee.
18 Thou hast defiled thy sanctuaries by the multitude of thine iniquities, by the iniquity of thy traffick; therefore will I bring forth a fire from the midst of thee, it shall devour thee, and I will bring thee to ashes upon the earth in the sight of all them that behold thee.
19 All they that know thee among the people shall be astonished at thee: thou shalt be a terror, and never shalt thou be any more."

Good point
 
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The Early Church Fathers on Hell

The Early Fathers believed in a literal hell. A place where unrepentant sinners would spend their eternity separated from God. A place where all hope would be abandoned and where misery and suffering would be a constant companion. The idea that the Bibles torturous descriptions of hell were somehow symbolic of non-existence, as Jehovah’s Witnesses claim, was something that would have been totally foreign to them. To the Fathers, if Jesus said that something was eternal and torturous, (Matthew 25:46, Luke 16:24) then that is what it was. Rather than water down Jesus words they instead chose to use them to warn the faithful as Jesus Himself did.


Ignatius of Antioch

Corrupters of families will not inherit the kingdom of God. And if they who do these things according to the flesh suffer death, how much more if a man corrupt by evil reaching the faith of God for the sake of which Jesus Christ was crucified? A man become so foul will depart into unquenchable fire, and so will anyone who listens to him (Letter to the Ephesians 16:1-2 [A.D. 110]).


Clement of Rome

If we do the will of Christ, we shall obtain rest; but if not, if we neglect his commandments, nothing will rescue us from eternal punishment (Second Clement 5:5 [A.D. 150]).


Justin Martyr

No more is it possible for the evildoer, the avaricious, and the treacherous to hide from God than it is for the virtuous. Every man will receive the eternal punishment or reward which his actions deserve. Indeed, if all men recognized this, no one would choose evil even for a short time, knowing that he would incur the eternal sentence of fire. On the contrary, he would take every means to control himself and to adorn himself in virtue, so that he might obtain the good gifts of God and escape the punishments (First Apology 12 [A.D. 151]).

[Jesus] shall come from the heavens in glory with his angelic host, when he shall raise the bodies of all the men who ever lived. Then he will clothe the worthy in immortality; but the wicked, clothed in eternal sensibility, he will commit to the eternal fire, along with the evil demons (ibid. 52).


The Martyrdom of Polycarp

Fixing their minds on the grace of Christ, [the martyrs] despised worldly tortures and purchased eternal life with but a single hour. To them, the fire of their cruel torturers was cold. They kept before their eyes their escape from the eternal and unquenchable fire (Martyrdom of Polycarp 2:3 [A.D. 155]).


Athenagoras

We [Christians] are persuaded that when we are removed from this present life we shall live another life, better than the present one. . . . Then we shall abide near God and with God, changeless and free from suffering in the soul . . . or if we fall with the rest [of mankind], a worse one and in fire; for God has not made us as sheep or beasts of burden, a mere incidental work, that we should perish and be annihilated (Plea for the Christians 31 [A.D. 177]).


Theophilus of Antioch

Give studious attention to the prophetic writings [the Bible] and they will lead you on a clearer path to escape the eternal punishments and to obtain the eternal good things of God.... [God] will examine everything and will judge justly, granting recompense to each according to merit. To those who seek immortally by the patient exercise of good works, he will give everlasting life, joy, peace, rest, and all good things. . . , For the unbelievers and for the contemptuous and for those who do not submit to the truth but assent to iniquity, when they have been involved in adulteries, and fornications, and homosexualities, and avarice, and in lawless idolatries, there will be wrath and indignation, tribulation and anguish; and in the end, such men as these will be detained in everlasting fire (To Autolycus 1:14 [A.D. 181]).


Irenaeus

The penalty increases for those who do not believe the Word of God and despise his coming. . . . It is not merely temporal, but eternal. To whomsoever the Lord shall say, "Depart from me, accursed ones, into the everlasting fire," they will be damned forever (Against Heresies4:28:2 [A.D. 189]).


Hippolytus

Standing before [Christ's] judgment, all of them, men, angels, and demons, crying out in one voice, shall say: "Just is your judgment!" And the righteousness of that cry will be apparent in the recompense made to each. To those who have done well, everlasting enjoyment shall be given; while to the lovers of evil shall be given eternal punishment. The unquenchable and unending fire awaits these latter, and a certain fiery worm which does not die and which does not waste the body but continually bursts forth from the body with unceasing pain. No sleep will give them rest; no night will soothe them; no death will deliver them from punishment; no appeal of interceding friends will profit them (Against the Greeks3 [A.D. 212]).


Minucius Felix

I am not ignorant of the fact that many, in the consciousness of what they deserve, would rather hope than actually believe that there is nothing for them after death. They would prefer to be annihilated rather than be restored for punishment. . . . Nor is there measure nor end to these torments. That clever fire burns the limbs and restores them, wears them away and yet sustains them, just as fiery thunderbolts strike bodies but do not consume them (Octavius34:12-5:3 [A.D. 226]).


Cyprian of Carthage

An ever-burning Gehenna and the punishment of being devoured by living flames will consume the condemned; nor will there be any way in which the tormented can ever have respite or be at an end. Souls along with their bodies will be preserved for suffering in unlimited agonies. . . . The grief at punishment will then be without the fruit of repentance; weeping will be useless, and prayer ineffectual. Too late will they believe in eternal punishment, who would not believe in eternal life (To Demetrian 24 [A.D. 252]).


Lactantius

We therefore speak better and more truly, who say that the two ways belong to heaven and hell, because immortality is promised to the righteous, and everlasting punishment is threatened to the unrighteous (Divine Institutes 6 [A.D. 307]).


Cyril of Jerusalem

We shall be raised therefore, all with our bodies eternal, but not all with bodies alike; For if a man is righteous, he will receive a heavenly body, that he may be able worthily to hold converse with angels; but if a man is a sinner, he shall receive an eternal body, fitted to endure the penalties of sins, that he may burn eternally in fire, nor ever be consumed. And righteously will God assign this portion to either company; for we do nothing without the body. We blaspheme with the mouth, and with the mouth we pray. With the body we commit fornication, and with the body we keep chastity. With the hand we rob, and by the hand we bestow alms; and the rest in like manner. Since then the body has been our minister in all things, it shall also share with us in the future the fruits of the past (Catechetical Lectures18:19 [A.D. 350]).


John Chrysostom

This is no small subject of enquiry which we propose, but rather about things which are of the first necessity and which all men enquire about; namely, whether hell fire have any end. For that it hath no end Christ indeed declared when he said, "Their fire shall not be quenched, and their worm shall not die” (Homily 9 on 1 Corinthians 3:12-15[circa A.D. 388]).
 
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reddogs

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The Early Church Fathers on Hell

The Early Fathers believed in a literal hell. A place where unrepentant sinners would spend their eternity separated from God. A place where all hope would be abandoned and where misery and suffering would be a constant companion. The idea that the Bibles torturous descriptions of hell were somehow symbolic of non-existence, as Jehovah’s Witnesses claim, was something that would have been totally foreign to them. To the Fathers, if Jesus said that something was eternal and torturous, (Matthew 25:46, Luke 16:24) then that is what it was. Rather than water down Jesus words they instead chose to use them to warn the faithful as Jesus Himself did.

5[circa A.D. 388]).

Yes, there are many ideas and traditions, but lets take a look at the idea of everlasting torment. Here is from my buddy Palehorse's essay:
I felt it necessary to do this study for a variety of reasons; but the most important one, in my opinion, is dispelling the false belief of an ever-lasting hell which has turned more people away from the Bible (and Christianity) than probably any other singular topic. No one, not even me, would worship an unloving God that burned people in an ever-lasting torment for the ceaseless ages of eternity. The truth is that the Bible doesnt teach that and that concept flies in the face of the all-loving God we know Him to be; as such, denominations that teach this concept had better rethink their position not only for the sake of Biblical accuracy but also because this pagan teaching (which is rooted firmly in ancient Greek Hellenistic teachings) is causing the massive decay of the Christian church today.

The root of the problem here is the Biblical meaning of the words 'for ever', 'everlasting' and the various forms of 'unquenchable', i.e. 'not be quenched'. Most people, understandably so, misunderstand the Biblical concept of these terms. In the Bible these terms sometimes do and sometimes dont equate to our modern meaning of "forever". In todays usage these terms mean 'for the ceaseless ages of eternity' for the most part though not exclusively. For example:
A married couple: they tell each other 'I will love you forever' but we all know that people die. What they are truly saying is 'they love each other until death', right? This is a parallel to see how even in modern times "forever" doesnt necessarily mean the ceaseless age of eternity.

So, lets establish what the Bible writers concept of forever was:
Genesis 43:9 - I will be surety for him; of my hand shalt thou require him: if I bring him not unto thee, and set him before thee, then let me bear the blame for ever:
Genesis 44:32 - For thy servant became surety for the lad unto my father, saying, If I bring him not unto thee, then I shall bear the blame to my father for ever.
This was pre-incarnate Jesus talking to the Father in regards to mans sin. Now, will Jesus bear the blame forever? No. (see Hebrews 9:28) The day will come when there is an end to sin. So the meaning here is clearly meant as until it is done.

Exodus 12:14 - And this day shall be unto you for a memorial; and ye shall keep it a feast to the LORD throughout your generations; ye shall keep it a feast by an ordinance for ever.
Exodus 12:17 - And ye shall observe the feast of unleavened bread; for in this selfsame day have I brought your armies out of the land of Egypt: therefore shall ye observe this day in your generations by an ordinance for ever.
Exodus 12:24 - And ye shall observe this thing for an ordinance to thee and to thy sons for ever.
But we know that the feasts were done away with when the Old Covenant was fulfilled by Christ. Exodus 12:14 is talking about the institution of the Passover; later Jesus became our Passover (1 Corinthians 5:7). The key in this verse is the part that says by an ordinance. We know that the ordinances were nailed to the cross (Colossians 2:14); and there arent any ordinances in the 10 Commandments. So again we find that forever does not mean the ceaseless ages of eternity as is commonly misunderstood.

Lets get some more examples:
Exodus 19:9 - And the LORD said unto Moses, Lo, I come unto thee in a thick cloud, that the people may hear when I speak with thee, and believe thee for ever. And Moses told the words of the people unto the LORD.
The question here is, how can the people believe thee for ever if they were mere mortals? They could not, of course, unless they were saved and would get ressurected at Christ's second coming. They died and the dead know not anything (Ecclesiastes 9:5). The meaning here is that they would believe for as long as they lived, not the ceaseless ages of eternity. Also, the thick cloud that could be seen by day (it was a fire from the sky at night) was no longer seen after Moses death. So, again, for ever does not equate to our modern understanding of forever.

Exodus 21:6 - Then his master shall bring him unto the judges; he shall also bring him to the door, or unto the door post; and his master shall bore his ear through with an aul; and he shall serve him for ever.
Would it be possible for a servant or master to live forever? No. Is a man still a servant to another after death? No. This clearly means that the servant would be a servant for the rest of his life and not the ceaseless ages of eternity.
Exodus 27:21 - In the tabernacle of the congregation without the vail, which is before the testimony, Aaron and his sons shall order it from evening to morning before the LORD: it shall be a statute for ever unto their generations on the behalf of the children of Israel.
Exodus 28:43 - And they shall be upon Aaron, and upon his sons, when they come in unto the tabernacle of the congregation, or when they come near unto the altar to minister in the holy place; that they bear not iniquity, and die: it shall be a statute for ever unto him and his seed after him.
Did the earthly tabernacle and its ceremonies last forever? No. (see Col. 2:14) Again, we find the meaning of for ever to mean until it is done.

In the case of man, this means "as long as he lives" or "until death." (See 1 Samuel 1:22, 28; Exodus 21:6; Psalm 48:14.) So the wicked will burn in the fire as long as they live, or until death. This fiery punishment for sin will vary according to the degree of sins for each individual, but after the punishment, the fire will go out; it will not last for the ceaseless ages of eternity.
Jeremiah 17:27 - But if ye will not hearken unto me to hallow the sabbath day, and not to bear a burden, even entering in at the gates of Jerusalem on the sabbath day; then will I kindle a fire in the gates thereof, and it shall devour the palaces of Jerusalem, and it shall NOT BE QUENCHED.
We all know that Jerusalem is not still burning today; as such the fire that 'shall not be quenched' means that it cannot be put out UNTIL it has done Gods purpose. No man can quench it; only God can. And God obviously did quench that fire else it would still be burning to this day.

We find in the following verses the same concept:
Isaiah 1:28-31 - And the destruction of the transgressors and of the sinners shall be together, and they that forsake the LORD shall be consumed. 29 For they shall be ashamed of the oaks which ye have desired, and ye shall be confounded for the gardens that ye have chosen. 30 For ye shall be as an oak whose leaf fadeth, and as a garden that hath no water. 31 And the strong shall be as tow, and the maker of it as a spark, and they shall both burn together, and none shall quench them.
The key here is the last part of the last line: 'and none shall quench them.' This clearly means that no one will be able to quench the fire that burns the wicked. But just as we learned in Jeremiah 17:27 only God can quench a fire that He has started. God is consistent in His doings.

When we apply this to another example from Isaiah where he further talks of Christs second coming, we now understand it more clearly:
Isaiah 34:8-10 - For it is the day of the LORD's vengeance (this is when it happens, not before) , and the year of recompences for the controversy of Zion. And the streams thereof shall be turned into pitch, and the dust thereof into brimstone, and the land thereof shall become burning pitch. It shall not be quenched night nor day; the smoke thereof shall go up for ever: from generation to generation it shall lie waste; none shall pass through it for ever and ever.

Now we see that 'from generation to generation' means 'the generations of the wicked', i.e. generations of wicked people, not that the fire will last from generation to generation. The only way for that to mean otherwise would mean that people would be procreating in hell, which is an absurd notion. That would then further mean that babies born in hell would burn for no reason. That idea goes totally against what we know of Gods character, does it not? Also in this verse we find another "not be quenched" phrase which by now is clearly understood to mean "unstoppable until it has served its purpose".

Lets look at Jonahs example:
Jonah 2:6 I went down to the bottoms of the mountains; the earth with her bars were about me FOR EVER: yet hast thou brought up my life from corruption, O LORD my God.
The book of Matthew says Jonah was in the belly of the whale THREE DAYS; not for ever. Here we see the same thing that 'for ever' can mean a limited amount of time. Though I must say, to Jonah those 3 days must have seemed like forever. In Jonah 2:6, "for ever" means "three days and nights." (See Jonah 1:17.) In Deuteronomy 23:3, this meant "10 generations."

These examples should be ample to illustrate that 'for ever' according to Biblical teachings does not mean the ceaseless ages of eternity. The same holds true for other phrases such as "not be quenched" and "everlasting"....
 
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eleos1954

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The Bible clearly teaches eternal punishment:

Matthew 25:31-46
Mark 9:43-48
Luke 16:19-31

Probably the most quoted verse in the Bible.

John 3:16

For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

In the Greek for perish in that verse

apollumi: to destroy, destroy utterly
Original Word: ἀπόλλυμι
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: apollumi
Phonetic Spelling: (ap-ol'-loo-mee)
Definition: to destroy, destroy utterly
Usage: (a) I kill, destroy, (b) I lose, mid: I am perishing (the resultant death being viewed as certain).

destroy - not torture

What loving God torture's people for eternity? Besides that .... it would make the unsaved immortal "in hell".... immortality is ONLY for the saved and that happens when Jesus returns and the 1st resurrection (of the saved) happens.
 
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Probably the most quoted verse in the Bible.

John 3:16

For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

In the Greek for perish in that verse

apollumi: to destroy, destroy utterly
Original Word: ἀπόλλυμι
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: apollumi
Phonetic Spelling: (ap-ol'-loo-mee)
Definition: to destroy, destroy utterly
Usage: (a) I kill, destroy, (b) I lose, mid: I am perishing (the resultant death being viewed as certain).

destroy - not torture

What loving God torture's people for eternity? Besides that .... it would make the unsaved immortal "in hell".... immortality is ONLY for the saved and that happens when Jesus returns and the 1st resurrection (of the saved) happens.

You quoted me but failed to address the scriptures I posted.
 
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Second Coming

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Probably the most quoted verse in the Bible.

John 3:16

For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

In the Greek for perish in that verse

apollumi: to destroy, destroy utterly
Original Word: ἀπόλλυμι
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: apollumi
Phonetic Spelling: (ap-ol'-loo-mee)
Definition: to destroy, destroy utterly
Usage: (a) I kill, destroy, (b) I lose, mid: I am perishing (the resultant death being viewed as certain).

destroy - not torture

What loving God torture's people for eternity? Besides that .... it would make the unsaved immortal "in hell".... immortality is ONLY for the saved and that happens when Jesus returns and the 1st resurrection (of the saved) happens.

You failed to acknowledge the fact that “perish” could also mean eternal punishment in hell.
 
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eleos1954

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You failed to acknowledge the fact that “perish” could also mean eternal punishment in hell.

I did not "fail" .... I provided the Greek definition of the word perish (strongs concordance) ... and John 3:16 does not say eternal punishment ... nor does it say perishing (as in continuing).

***
Psalm 1:6 “But the way of the ungodly shall perish”

If one believes in eternal conscious hell, they don’t believe the ungodly perish at all– but live forever (immortal in hell).

Psalm 37:20 “But the wicked shall perish… they shall consume; into smoke shall they consume away.”

If one believes in eternal conscious hell, they don’t believe the wicked will be “consumed.” Instead, they believe the wicked are tortured and never consumed.

Psalm 69:28 says that the wicked are “blotted out of the book of the living.”

This continues the consistency of scripture which tells us the wicked die– not that they are eternally living in a conscious hell.

Ps. 34:16, 21 “evil brings death to the wicked.”

Of course, if one believes in eternal hell, one doesn’t believe that evil brings death at all, but brings eternal life– in hell.

Psalm 92:7 “… shall be destroyed forever.”

If one believes in eternal conscious hell, they don’t believe those who are lost are “destroyed” but again, that they live forever ... tortured in hell.

Prov. 24:20 “the lamp of the wicked will be snuffed out.”

To believe in eternal conscious hell means one believes they will not be snuffed out at all.

Dan. 2:35 “the wind swept them away without leaving a trace.”

This continues the theme of totally destroyed– there’s not a trace of the wicked. This is the opposite of eternal life in hell.

Isa. 1:28, 30–31 “rebels and sinners shall be destroyed together, and those who forsake the Lord shall be consumed.”

Obadiah 1:16 It will be as if the evil “had never been.“

This speaks to ceasing to exist– not eternal life in hell. In the traditional hell it will not be “as if they had never been” because they’ll live eternally and still “be.”

Mal 4:1 “All the arrogant and every evildoer will be stubble, and the day that is coming will set them on fire,” says the LORD Almighty. “Not a root or a branch will be left to them.”

Here God is quoted directly– the evildoers are destroyed like straw thrown into the fire, and nothing is left. This shows total annihilation (they no longer exist). To believe in eternal hell, one would have to argue that God was mistaken and that they aren’t destroyed in the fire at all– but live forever in the fire without being consumed, which is the exact opposite of what God claimed.

In the Old Testament they believed that the wicked are destroyed– that they die and do not get resurrected to eternal life. This is the testimony of the whole of scripture. To believe in eternal conscious hell is to really be at odds with the terminology we see scripture use. These same claims of annihilation and destruction continue in the New Testament:

Matthew 10:28 “Rather, fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.”

Here Jesus himself teaches against hell– saying that those who are lost experience the death of their soul. If one believes in eternal conscious hell, they believe Jesus was wrong on this point, and that souls don’t die at all, but will live forever in hell.

John 3:16 “…whosoever believeth in him should not perish”

Again, to believe in hell, one must believe Jesus was wrong in John 3:16 and that people don’t “perish” at all, but live forever in hell.

Matthew 7:13: “broad is the road that leads to destruction“

Jesus in his warnings continues with the repetitive testimony of scripture: the consequence of rejecting reconciliation with God is destruction– not everlasting life in torment.

Jesus on a variety of occasions uses the metaphor of fire that consumes not tortures: Matthew 7:19; Matthew 13:40; John 15:6

Philippians 3:19 “whose end is destruction…“

There’s that word again, “destroyed". Those who believe in eternal hell don’t believe one is destroyed in hell, but lives there forever .... being tortured by a loving God?

2 Thessalonians 1:9 “who shall be punished with everlasting destruction …”

The Bible is getting clear that the consequence of rejecting God is destruction, not eternal life in hell.

1 Cor 3:17: “God will destroy that person”

There’s that word again that doesn’t mean tortured in hell, but just means what it says– destroyed.

2 Cor 2:15-16: “those that perish“

Again, if Paul meant hell, he should have said it– seems like everyone talks about perishing, being destroyed– but doesn’t talk about hell.

Romans 6:23: “For the wages of sin is death..“

It’s perishing, dying, being destroyed.. the opposite of eternal life in hell.

Another version of the same term… destroyed.

James 4:12a “There is one lawgiver, who is able to save and to destroy.”

We are to understand to be “destroyed” is the natural consequence…

2 Peter 2:3: “Their condemnation from long ago is not idle, and their destruction is not asleep.”

Revelation 20:14 “This is the second death…”

Then death and the grave were thrown into the lake of fire. This lake of fire is the second death.

Those who believe in eternal conscious hell don’t believe in the second death– they believe everyone is immortal, and that some will live forever in hell with God burning and torturing them for eternity. Revelation 20:14 is clear that they die – they don’t live forever in hell at all.
 
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