Death before sin?

[Jon]

From http://www.drdino.com/cse.asp?pg=faq&specific=45

Some Christians are committed to the idea that the earth is billions of years old. The biggest obstacle to this is the fact that there would be death before sin.

 

...................?

 

[Christian Dave]

I think its saying that IF the world was billions of years old and jesus only died a couple of thousend years ago that the people before that wouldent have known about sin.
Altho i disagree with that statement alltogether

 

[troodon]

Excuse me for being confused, but didn't Jesus die without sinning? How exactly would not sinning prevent anything from dieing a physical death? Was there some magical barrier protecting bacteria in Adam's stomach keeping them from being occasionally consumed by his stomach acids?

 

[lucaspa]

Today at 12:49 PM Jon said this in Post #1



 

...................?

Hovind's interpretation of the Bible is that death only entered the world because of sin.  According to Hovind, God made the word "perfect" and that means that there was no death.  People with this opinion apparently base it on Genesis 2:17. However, Genesis 3:22 says something completely different.

 

[seebs]

It seems to me that the "death" entering the world is spiritual, not physical. Adam and Eve didn't keel over and stop breathing within the day... but they "died" within the day. Physical death of animals is so utterly mundane that I don't think Genesis needed to discuss it.

 

[paulewog]

It's saying that without sin, there is no death.

"And sin entered the world by Adam, and death through sin..."

Hmmm Romans I think.

Anyways, there was no death before sin.

So, the point is...

If evolution is true:
(1) the Adam/Eve story would have to be completely figurative, since it clearly shows that the world was perfect, no sin, up until man was supposedly 'evolved' - which would mean that the evolution would have had to take place without death - which would also mean that there is a "double hermaneutic"

 

[seebs]

I suggest reading Augustine's work on Genesis, which was written without the slightest reference to evolution; it's very informative.

 

[paulewog]

could you give a brief overview of what specifically you wanted me to see?

 

[Stormy]

If you believe there was no death before sin... then do you also believe that life was not of the physical nature?

I do not agree. But that is the only option I can reason.

 

[Micaiah]

Scripture plainly teaches that death in the world resulted from sin.

Genesis 2
15Then the LORD God took the man and put him in the garden of Eden to tend and keep it. 16And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, "Of every tree of the garden you may freely eat; 17but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat of it you shall surely die."

Romans 5
(1) 12 Therefore, just as through one man sin entered the world, and death through sin, and thus death spread to all men, because all sinned-- 13(For until the law sin was in the world, but sin is not imputed when there is no law.

The death was both physical and spiritual. It is clear from Scripture that human death was the direct result from sin.

Since there was no death prior to the fall, it is evident God did not use evolution in creation because evolution theory says that things evolved as a result of the struggle for survival.

There are some Christians who distort the Scriptures because they listen to man's theories rather than God's truth. They justify ignoring God's truth taught in Genesis by claiming it is not meant to be taken literally. In this way they manage to make the early chapters say pretty much whatever they want. It is a small step from this to doubting the teaching of God on salvation, and rejecting Christianity altogether. Sadly this is the testimony of many, some even on this forum. Satan first deceived Eve by twisting the truth of God's word. He does the same today.

 

[wblastyn]

18th April 2003 at 09:23 AM Micaiah said this in Post #10

Scripture plainly teaches that death in the world resulted from sin.

Genesis 2
15Then the LORD God took the man and put him in the garden of Eden to tend and keep it. 16And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, "Of every tree of the garden you may freely eat; 17but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat of it you shall surely die."

Romans 5
(1) 12 Therefore, just as through one man sin entered the world, and death through sin, and thus death spread to all men, because all sinned-- 13(For until the law sin was in the world, but sin is not imputed when there is no law.

The death was both physical and spiritual. It is clear from Scripture that human death was the direct result from sin.

Since there was no death prior to the fall, it is evident God did not use evolution in creation because evolution theory says that things evolved as a result of the struggle for survival.

There are some Christians who distort the Scriptures because they listen to man's theories rather than God's truth. They justify ignoring God's truth taught in Genesis by claiming it is not meant to be taken literally. In this way they manage to make the early chapters say pretty much whatever they want. It is a small step from this to doubting the teaching of God on salvation, and rejecting Christianity altogether. Sadly this is the testimony of many, some even on this forum. Satan first deceived Eve by twisting the truth of God's word. He does the same today.

Genesis 2:17 says they would die in the day they ate from the tree, but they went on living for a long time.

The last paragraph is a pointed comment at theistic evolutionists.  Creationists enjoy pointing out how much more Christian they are than us.

How does evolution reject the Gospel?  I think you just like making things up to support your position.

 

[Sinai]

The verses that have generally been quoted in this thread seem to be referring to spiritual death, which is obviously related to sin and to the need for a savior.