Dealing with theological differences

[Kris10leigh]

How do you deal with theological differences in worship?

I'm not looking for advice; just opinions. I'm comfortable with what I'm doing. But I was thinking in the shower this morning (always dangerous ).

I always try to pre-read or read ahead while praying, reading aloud or singing to make sure I agree with the words coming from my mouth. One of the things I do not believe in is the trinity. Last week we sang the hymn "Holy, Holy, Holy", which is one of my favorites! I love that song. But the words don't jive with my belief, so I don't sing the following words:
"Holy, Holy, Holy
Lord God Almighty,
God in three persons
Blessed trinity."

How do you handle this? I was asking myself in the shower this morning if it was really such a big deal. Then I thought, imagine the same tune with words like, "Glory, glory, glory, All hale Apollo, god of the Mountain, reigning good fellow." I would have a problem singing that, regardless of the melody.

So in worship, do you leave out things you do not agree with?

 

[plum]

I think it's good to be aware of what you'll be saying so you can say it with heart. I often do stay silent and think as the words are being said around me in case I'm not sure of a statement or creed or whatever...

Then again, I don't attend church now unless it's as a guest.

One thing that kept me from being engaged in church when I was Messianic was always having my "censor bar" at the ready. My inner critic was always on thinking, "they've got that all wrong," or "I don't believe that. harumph!" Basically, it was hard to go to church and not struggle with sin. Now that I'm even further down the path of "this just doesn't feel right" I've almost gotten to the point where I can be in church as a passive observer and not put on that big loud critic hat so often. I can't be bothered as easily now that I'm an equal-opportunity dissenter

 

[Crazy Liz]

I have trouble finding the right role for my inner critic in worship. I guess maybe my inner critic doesn't worship, because when I am hearing that voice in my head, I feel like I'm not worshipping.

I don't know. Interesting topic.

 

[Kris10leigh]

I have trouble finding the right role for my inner critic in worship. I guess maybe my inner critic doesn't worship, because when I am hearing that voice in my head, I feel like I'm not worshipping.

I don't know. Interesting topic.

Therein lies my entire problem. I am pretty much not worshipping when I go to church. I find myself far closer to God in quite mediation than in a church. I'm not one for organized religion, period.

But as Plum pointed out, being mostly Messianic in belief and attending a Methodist church makes for some interesting experiences. My inner critic is fairly tame because I've had it for such a long time. I've only recently decided to act on it.

 

[plmarquette]

Do you agree with all the rock and roll songs you sing or all the movies you
go and see?

Why should the trinity bother you ....

If the song bothers you, change the words to ones that you like
hole-ly; hole-ly; hole-ly wanna be pres ...the political rhetory...
the Lord (Jehovah singular) your God (elohim-plural) is one
Let Us (elohim) create him (man) in our own image
Let us (plural) go down and confound their language
...the baptism of John ; the 3 who bear witness in heaven ; the councils
of Trent and Chancleon...

 

[ForAMomentIWillFly]

I know what I believe is correct in worship, and I adamantly defend those who practice, I am just too shy myself.

 

[Loki]

I don't say the creed when I go to church (unless auto-pilot kicks in). Do what's comfortable and honest for you.

 

[Adammi]

I sing right along and get what I can out of it anyways. My hips do lie, but that has never stopped me from singing with Shakira when I'm driving. lol

 

[Gukkor]

I don't go to church. Never really got much out of it, personally; I feel closer to God in private contemplation and the practice of my art than I ever could singing or listening to a sermon.

 

[Athene]

If it's a song I like I sing along anyway, if it's a song I detest the chances are I won't be singing it I'll be praying or dozing.

 

[mathildapaws]

When I first started going to church I didn't believe in Jesus so I kept quiet for a lot of the songs and reading aloud bits. I found that I could make a quiet space within the words and they'd just float around me.

 

[DailyBlessings]

In my liturgy class, we once did an exercise- all of us recited the Nicene Creed, and we were instructed to stand up whenever we agreed completely with a phrase, and sit down whenever something sounded dubious or false. I tell you, the room looked like popcorn, with everyone hopping up and down. Hardly anyone remained standing for the whole thing- and this was at a seminary

The instructor's point though, and you may decide whether you agree with it, is that the purpose of the Creed was not necessarily to describe doctrine in a way that is binding to all who say it- after all, if a room full of future pastors cannot agree on everything in it, how could a congregation? But rather, that it is the statement of faith that Christians have spoken for many centuries as an expression of identity. When we recite it, we are entering a conversation with the whole communion of the saints, one that may or may not end with our agreeing with each other but affirms our brotherhood and sisterhood with them.

So should we say creeds or hymns when we do not disagree with them? I don't think there is any harm in it. God knows I do not like reciting the filioque, or encouraging "Christian soldiers" to "march on as to war", or all the affirmations of the Latin hymns we sing in choir. I don't feel the need to remain silent, just to prove it! More important to me is to worship as one body in Christ, with those I have been brought to celebrate the Sunday Feast with. But, I think it is alright to remain silent if our conscience so leads us to. My wife attends church with me each Sunday and recites almost none of the hymns or liturgy. I've never been offended, and so far as I know neither has anyone else. And most importantly, she maintains her authenticity of self-expression, while still being in community.

 

[Catherineanne]

So in worship, do you leave out things you do not agree with?

When I am in church I do not join in any of the responses. This is not because I do not agree with them, but because, for me, remaining quiet is the way I do it. Or, putting it another way, the words do not come out loud. Sometimes I try, but they do not come. I don't sing the hymns, and I don't say the responses. The only bit I can say out loud is when we have the taize song "Lord, hear our prayer' after the prayers. For some reason, I can sing that, as a prayer. We are all different.

I don't think anyone reads this as me disagreeing with the service. Their choice if they do, but they only have to ask.

What matters in our faith is love. Understanding the theology is not at all important. If you want to leave out bits, then leave them out. The only bit we are not able to leave out is the bit about loving God and our neighbour as ourselves.

 

[Catherineanne]

But, I think it is alright to remain silent if our conscience so leads us to. My wife attends church with me each Sunday and recites almost none of the hymns or liturgy. I've never been offended, and so far as I know neither has anyone else. And most importantly, she maintains her authenticity of self-expression, while still being in community.

The assumption under English civil law used to be that silence denotes consent, rather than that silence denotes disagreement.

I don't know if this has changed, but I would be most unhappy if everyone who sees me standing in silence in church assumes that I disagree with every word. This is far from the case.

 

[Catherineanne]

When I first started going to church I didn't believe in Jesus so I kept quiet for a lot of the songs and reading aloud bits. I found that I could make a quiet space within the words and they'd just float around me.

You don't have to join in out loud. Participation is about being there. God is in those quiet spaces, and if you don't sing along to the hymns, you can hear the angels singing along far better.

 

[Joykins]

I don't say or sing things in church I don't mean. So I would just hum those bars and join back in on the rest. I have dropped words out of responses and songs in the past during church. I haven't had to do that in the new church, which is heartening.

 

[Octorock]

Sometime when I was a teenager, I realized that I didn't really identify with the lyrics of the worship songs sung in church, so I stopped singing them. Not as an act of rebellion, but in the spirit of being honest. It made sense to me. However, my friends and peers took notice and started questioning me (read: gave me a hard time) about it. A girlfriend I had even said "How come you don't sing in church? You're embarrasing me."

Now, around this time, my faith was pretty weak, and I was starting to get a lot of encouragement (read: pressure) to "get right with God" or "strengthen my relationship with God," or however they worded it. It was all something I didn't really understand at the time, although I wanted to do what was "right," so I agreed to consider what people told me I should do.

One thing I was told (from my previously-mentioned girlfriend) was that I should sing in church in order to grow close to God. When I explained that I don't sing those songs because I don't yet feel the way that the songs are meant to express, she told me that I should just sing them anyway, and that they would just become true. I'm paraphrasing, but this is how I remember it being told to me. It didn't make sense. Was I suppose to just repeat words that I didn't agree with or couldn't identify with, until I sort of "trick" myself into believing or feeling that way? To this day, I find issue with that.

Anyway, where was I, I forgot the point that I was making.

 

[recoveringfaith]

I'm confused. You're Jewish but attending a Christian church? I visited your profile and gather that you are Jewish but your family is Christian? Just trying to understand the situation.

 

[Rao]

How do you deal with theological differences in worship?

First, I acknowledge that theology is not really what is going to save me.

Second, if I think long enough on a theology topic (especially if not major), most likely I have to admit that I am not sure of it, and I don't have full and honest faith on a particular alternative about it.

So therefore, I just choose trust my catholic church and while I keep thinking about various theological topics, I don't proclaim any specific alternative because I recognize that I just don't know.

That said, whatever comes up in prayers and rites is fine for me, so far at least... so I have no problems in reciting it even if I don't have full faith. I trust they know what they're making me say, and if it's wrong it's not my fault.

It was once different tho... When I was a teenager, I started to skip passages of the Creed which I didn't really believe in, because I didn't want to be a hypocrite. However after skipping more and more, I ended up skipping the whole mass, and later I even ended up believing for a whole decade that I was an atheist :o

 

[AzA]

I trust they know what they're making me say, and if it's wrong it's not my fault.

You what?