Dealing with Narcissists

[blackribbon]

People who are hermit-like and "anti-social" are called schizoid personalities. I don't know why this personality has that in the name because this personality can be very charming and very social at times....they just don't "connect" in the same way because they don't seem to have an awareness for the next person. Sad to say, that this is the one type of personality disorder that really doesn't seem to respond to "treatments"...behavior modifications which includes setting boundaries and facing consequence, is about the only thing they know how to do. When people have some characteristics of these personalities that do not interfere with there ability to function relatively normal in society, it is considered "traits". Many (if not most) of us have some "traits" of these different personalities ... like the friend who is a slightly annoying neat-freak who has "OCD traits" and needs everything to be "in the right place" (magazines in a certain order, towels hung a certain way) but doesn't feel compelled to put everything back "in place" until the friends go home at night.

I think that if as a culture we would all look at mental illnesses and disorders in a little more "matter of fact" way with less stigma like medical illnesses, more people could get treatments and we would be a mentally healthier society. Many of these conditions are true disease processes or genetic conditions that do respond to medical treatment the same as a diabetic responds to insulin treatment. Bipolarism and depression definitely fall into treatable illnesses. Meds can get the brain chemistry back in balance and talk therapy can give the people the skills they need to either solve their real problems or coping tools to live with them. However, until the brain chemistry is normal, other treatments don't work as well.

 

[memoriesbymichelle]

but then you add in alcohol and then what? What's weird is her mom was a drinker and she likes to drink and yet they pick men that do not tolerate drinking. IDK if its their own self fulfilling prophecy to ruin all their relationships or what? Just like her still talking with her ex all the way here and also saying he's a jerk and also saying she still loves him.

But after all my venting here and to God I feel SO much better. It's after 3 and I have not heard from her yet today. Now I have to work tomorrow night and I've told her this, but I would not put it past her to come tomorrow. IDK Que Sara Sara! ~

 

[blackribbon]

People with mental illness tend to abuse substances...alcohol is one of the main ones. They believe it is a form of self-medicating. However, substance abuse also IS a diagnosed mental illness. The reason is it is not just considered a behavior issue is that there are plenty of people who can use these same substances and not turn into abusers...even among drugs that have addictive properties. It will be interesting to watch to see how the newest research plays out. Now when treating a patient with substance abuse issues, we do address behavior issues and improve coping skills...but they also have drugs to help minimize the desire to drink. I mean there are people like you and me who have our share of problems and can access alcohol as easy as the next person, but don't use it and I know, I don't have any desire to use it for that purpose. If someone told me I could never drink alcohol again, it wouldn't even be minimally be life altering in any way at all. (Now if you told me my life depended on me never drinking a cola drink again....well, that might send me into a mild depression).

 

[dayhiker]

I'm with you on the addiction thing black.

I've finally found a coke that has less sugar that I like and so I tend to drink tha when its available. Coke ZERO .. yaaaa, Diet Coke tasted terrible to me. But I like milk with dinner and I almost always just drink water at work, so I guess I could say bye to soda.

 

[memoriesbymichelle]

Hahaha blackribbon! Your last comment made me laugh I too could care less if all of a sudden there was no more alcohol. I'm not sure why, but I just never had a desire or taste for it myself and I could never get drunk even when I was younger. I always got sick first. Oh wait I think I did get drunk once because I didn't eat first and I couldn't drive and when I got home and got in bed I felt like I was on the high sea with 50 foot waves. It was not an enjoyable time LOL. So no worries of me becoming an alcoholic in the future.

So I have another question....can you rationalize at ALL with these people? Can you attempt to try to get them to force themselves to think about others?

I don't think so, but thought I would ask. Last night I went to dinner with some friends and got home about 8:15. I didn't know if she was going to be there when I got home or not. She wasn't. Hadn't heard from her all day either. At first I wasn't going to contact her, but since I have to work all night tonight I decided to text her and just tell her to come on Saturday, which is what I did. I texted her at 8:41 and her text back to me woke me up at 11:41!!!!
My youngest son said "She ditched us again?" She called me on Tuesday and I was expecting to see her on Wednesday and then yesterday and now Saturday by my choice but she acted like I would see her on Wed and never told me until after the fact of her changed plans. I just wonder if it's worth saying anything? She just never seems to care how her actions affect other people. So should I say anything or not? And it would not be in anger if I did say anything. I would be as kind as I can just trying to get her to "see" that "oh yeah" maybe I should tell people my plans. Cuz if she would have been up front with me, I wouldn't have expected her day after day after day.

 

[dayhiker]

I agree those that are this selfish don't spend much if any time thinking about how to change and improve their character.

As for saying something, only of you want to. Might do it for an experiment. Ask her what she is thinking when she changers her and doesn't tell people.

 

[memoriesbymichelle]

That's a great idea actually. I don't want to come across as the judgemental mom. I just want her to be more considerate but being that she might be mentally ill, she might not be capable of this kind of thought process.

A few years back she did the same thing. Her and I planned to surprise my husband with a camping trip for Father's day. He loved to camp but for some reason this time he did NOT want to go camping and it was Father's day after all. She came to town and I was waiting with my oldest son ALL day for her. My son was about 5 so he was asking all day when is she going to be here over and over (you know how little kids are). So she FINALLY calls me in the afternoon and she's around the corner at my SIL's! So then she goes (without me) to her dad's work to surprise him. I told her he was not up for the camping. So he gets home and says where is she? cuz he had seen her at work. So I call over my SIL (it's about 7 by now and my son is still waiting to see her) and she's giving her daughter a bath and had just got back from the store to buy the stuff for camping! I said I told you...your dad doesn't want to go camping! She went OFF on me about how she just spent all this money, blah blah blah.....finally came over MAD, pushed my son out of the way to talk to her dad. They had an argument over it...she left again mad. And of course somehow it was all MY fault! My husband wasn't mad at me, but SHE was. And it's all because she did NOT listen and she did NOT come to my house first like we planned. Cuz we were supposed to BOTH go to his work to surprise him and them MAYBE we could have convinced him camping would be fun to do but because SHE did what SHE wanted it was all ruined. So this time her behavior reminded me of that experience. The difference this time is I did NOT change my plans for her thankfully and I know how she is and I TRY not to let it get to me and if it does I vent here

 

[dayhiker]

Sounds like you have learned how to relate to her.

 

[memoriesbymichelle]

Sounds like you have learned how to relate to her.

still learning. Just thankful that she doesn't live in the same state as me even though she's getting closer. Me thinks she is really enjoying herself at the McMansion (I would too, their home is beautiful) so hence not in a hurry to come to my house.

 

[blackribbon]

We were told that these people just are not aware .... nor do they care ... about the feelings of others. I might be frank about my feelings...as in "we were disappointed that we didn't get to see you on this particular visit to town"...but do not allow her to manipulate you. She is probably ALWAYS going to find you "judgmental" because she has learned that those are the words that can manipulate you. If you just change to matter of fact..."if you want to see me and/or your brothers, we are currently available on Weds or Sat...but know if you don't commit, we might make other plans and then not be available." (half expect her to stand you up...even with the commitment) but don't reschedule the rest of your time. She will learn after she gets angry the first couple times. Do not assume that this is "personal" because it isn't, it is how she treats all the people in her life eventually. Check the emotions at the door, and just work with everything on a "face value".

 

[memoriesbymichelle]

Well I told her to come Saturday whenever....I plan on grocery shopping in the am and I just remembered today that my oldest son is leaving at 6am tomorrow to go do drills with his reserve unit (even though he hasn't done basic yet they said he still can go) so he won't even be here! I'm not telling her that either because I figure if HE wanted to see her HE could tell her. I did tell him that she was coming tomorrow so....It might mean that she will want to stay until he gets back, but it also frees up his bed for her to sleep in, and I'm off all weekend and if she does stay I will invite her to church with me . But either way, I know it's not personal and I'm learning not just from her, but my younger son and others, that the enemy DOES try to get me to make it personal, but as long as I hold my mug, that fire just won't stay lit!
Thanks for all your advice, cuz it really does help. I am now also thinking that my ex SIL (who she is currently with) may have this disorder too. I use to just think of people being selfish or narcissistic and not really considered further "options" if you will .

 

[blackribbon]

I learned so much from my psych nursing rotation. It has also changed how I think about people and their behaviors. I wish that we could remove the stigma of having a mental illness/disorder so that as a society we could truly learn how to embrace people the way God made them and be able to address unique needs instead of always being hurt and puzzled by their behaviors. The church also needs to learn that not everything is "the devil" and "sin" although sin (orginal sin) is the origin of genetic component. If we learn to love each other as God loves us...flaws and all....then maybe we could help these people function better and "hurt" less people and help them feel less like "damaged goods" that aren't worthy of love. (Even the personalities that aren't really aware that they and their personalities contribute to the problem...like the personality disorders).

 

[blackribbon]

A lot of people do show signs of these disorders...and those are called "traits"...without having behaviors that actually interfere with day to day function. But understanding the various disorders helps remove the emotional aspect that often leads to hurt feelings and helps us make "educated" decisions about who and how deep we want to allow into our lives. I think it also gives us the power to de-emotionized the situations and love people where they stand.

 

[Alienated]

I'm thinking I'm going to just stare and not say anything

Thorazine blow darts work pretty good !

 

[dayhiker]

black .. I've thought for a while that we haven't been dealing with people that are hurting the best way. Personally, I have not idea how to do it better. I was impressed with my father-in-law the few times I saw him with people that had disabilitites and his ability to treat them just like he did anyone else.

 

[memoriesbymichelle]

Thorazine blow darts work pretty good !

If I would have had one this weekend? I swear MY weekend would have been better lol!

Oh my my! I cannot even begin to express how tired I am after a weekend of listening to someone drone on and on and on and on and on and on and on....are you getting the point? The only time I didn't hear her voice is when I was sleeping!!! I had to take a nap yesterday because I could NOT stand it anymore! She NEVER shuts up! I don't think she can stand silence and I severly needed medication! I mean I love her alot, but she is an alcoholic aside from whatever else she suffers from. If she is this way around her husband? It's no wonder he didn't go crazy! She brought her own beer with her. She doesn't get sloppy drunk and she didn't get mean, but she just talks and talks and talks and even if you try to say anything, you can tell she just can't wait for you to shut up so she can continue to talk and talk and talk!

All in all, the visit went well. I don't think her plan is well thought out. She seems to talk as if she is still in relationship with her husband. She IS still married, but when she talks about her house or whatever it just seems like it's not over and WOW I just didn't realize how messed up she is.
I mentioned going to church and she did NOT want to go. That's fine. Later she brought it up and said she didn't want to go because she feels shame and she doesn't want to feel that right now. So I got to share with her about having a relationship with GOD and how He is not surprised by her actions and His plan will work out anyway, kind of a you can run but you can't hide but in a real gentle way. It was weird because I had read that in my study, and I truly hope the Holy Spirit was speaking thru me and not me because I want her to realize how freeing it is when you know you can't do anything to save your life or lose it and that God's got this!

Here is an interesting observation that I would like blackribbon to comment on if possible (or anyone else that might have an insight).
I noticed that she will not call people by their names. She calls my oldest son BOY or BROTHER and same with my youngest. BUT she NAMES her inanimate objects like her blanket is called "Blue" that's it's NAME! And her little stuffed animal she has to sleep with is called her "woogy" or something like that. Her car is a "she" and also has a name. Even her own kids, she calls her little boy "Brother". As I was typing this I noticed something....maybe it's a "guy" thing or something she has against guys? Because when talking about her oldest daughter she uses her name and her other youngest daughter same thing uses her name. It' just irked me (and I didn't say anything) but I thought maybe it had to do with her making herself feel better by not acknowledging their name IDK....

 

[memoriesbymichelle]

[SIZE=-1]How many narcissists does it take to change a light bulb?[/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1](a) Just one -- but he has to wait for the whole world to revolve around him.
(b) None at all -- he hires menials for work that's beneath him.[/SIZE]​

 

[Javanwarbler]

[SIZE=-1]How many narcissists does it take to change a light bulb?[/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1](a) Just one -- but he has to wait for the whole world to revolve around him.
(b) None at all -- he hires menials for work that's beneath him.[/SIZE]​

Ha ha! I especially like a)!

At least it isn't a Suzuki student! It only takes one to do it, but he/she has to repeat it 100 times!

Note: Maybe you know of it, but Suzuki, as you know to be of the motorcycle world, is also a method to learn music and many kids as young as 2 years learn music modeled after how they learn a language. You hear words over and over and that's how you first learn, before you can even read a letter in the alphabet (whereas, in Suzuki, you learn musical notes and songs often before you can even read a single note in the scale). Repetition in listening to songs and in playing passages in music is one of the big mantras of the Suzuki Method.

For some time, I've been afraid thinking I'm a narcissist. But I thought there was some criminal 'bent' within the personality. However, that might be associated more with Borderline Personality Disorder which I read more about.I have known people who especially don't seem to have regard for others' time and they expect, then get upset, that you were busy (but not anymore busy than the next person).

I hope this situation will just get better for you, Michelle! It sounds like your daughter may need some counseling maybe for stuff only she knows she's dealing with inside. That's really cool you talked about God with her. That's huge. You never know, maybe that planted some sort of seed? Maybe God "orchestrated" things (and how this all played out with your daughter actually coming to visit you) for just that one reason?? Of course, I'm not one to say, only God knows and works in 'Mysterious Ways.'

 

[blackribbon]

Here is an interesting observation that I would like blackribbon to comment on if possible (or anyone else that might have an insight).
I noticed that she will not call people by their names. She calls my oldest son BOY or BROTHER and same with my youngest. BUT she NAMES her inanimate objects like her blanket is called "Blue" that's it's NAME! And her little stuffed animal she has to sleep with is called her "woogy" or something like that. Her car is a "she" and also has a name. Even her own kids, she calls her little boy "Brother". As I was typing this I noticed something....maybe it's a "guy" thing or something she has against guys? Because when talking about her oldest daughter she uses her name and her other youngest daughter same thing uses her name. It' just irked me (and I didn't say anything) but I thought maybe it had to do with her making herself feel better by not acknowledging their name IDK....

Hmmm...here is another personality disorder that you might want to look at to see if it fits even better.

Borderline Personality Disorder | Psych Central

One of this personalities has depersonalizing human relationships (as in "the boy" instead of "my boy") and forming deep bonds to pets or inanimate objects...I can't remember which it is...but I'm thinking it may be borderline personality disorder...another tough diagnosis...Regardless, this is a "characteristic" of something...exactly as you describe it. I will try to remember or find it in my books.

 

[memoriesbymichelle]

She might be a mixed breed of alot of dis-orders. Only God can truly help her....whenever she is ready to meet with Him again.

Back about a year ago or less, she seemed really happy. She claimed to have been spending about 2 hours a day studying and reading the bible, and doing her painting and keeping the house and kids in order.

She was a little lonely because her kids were in school and her husband worked. I told her to get into maybe a women's bible study or volunteer at school or church to have some friends so her husband wouldn't have the entire burden of her happiness.

She claims to have been suicidal since she was about 9. Her parents divorced by her mom leaving her dad and literally running off with her boyfriend and leaving the kids with my husband. She came back and took them back and they have mostly lived with her and spent summers with us, with the exception of her mom not being able to handle this daughter and several times we took her, but then when she would go "visit" her mom, her mom wouldn't send her back. So in 6th grade when that happened we stopped it for good. She came to live with us one more time and when she left it was for good, but we always tried to maintain the relationship. She was not quite 3 when her mom left. I think that's why she doesn't seem to care that she left her kids right now. IDK. My heart is heavy FOR her, and I KNOW God's GOT this.