Deal Breakers

[cubinity]

The guy with the bullhorn has too many restrictions for my comfort.
The universalist has too few.

So, what exactly are the deal breakers of my Christian faith?
I don't know...

What are yours?

 

[Tangible]

Like, for fellowship?

 

[cubinity]

Like, for fellowship?

Sure, I guess.

When my friends are talking with someone, at some point they make the call, ''This person is or is not a Christian because...''

What follows that for you, if anything?

 

[singpeace]

By deal breakers, I assume you mean what turns me off in regards to what is being preached/taught and in what manner?

When I realize the speaker has not truly studied the Word of God in Scriptures, I'm immediately on my guard. Still, if it is apparent that there is honesty in their heart and that they are truly seeking to serve Christ, then that person is also still teachable.

On the other hand; if it becomes obvious to me that with a lack of knowledge of the Scriptures, there's also a heart filled with judgment, condemnation, bitterness, and hatred; that person is not teachable and can be very detrimental to the spiritual wellbeing of those who listen.

Therefore, my deal breaker is anyone who does not rightly divide the word of Truth, and who has hatred in his heart for others, rather than love and compassion for all.

2 Timothy 2:15
Do your best to present yourself to God as one approved, a worker who has no need to be ashamed, rightly handling the word of truth.

John 13:34-35
34. A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another: just as I have loved you, you also are to love one another.
35. By this all people will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another."

 

[cubinity]

By deal breakers, I assume you mean what turns me off in regards to what is being preached/taught and in what manner?

When I realize the speaker has not truly studied the Word of God in Scriptures, I'm immediately on my guard. Still, if it is apparent that there is honesty in their heart and that they are truly seeking to serve Christ, then that person is also still teachable.

On the other hand; if it becomes obvious to me that with a lack of knowledge of the Scriptures, there's also a heart filled with judgment, condemnation, bitterness, and hatred; that person is not teachable and can be very detrimental to the spiritual wellbeing of those who listen.

Therefore, my deal breaker is anyone who does not rightly divide the word of Truth, and who has hatred in his heart for others, rather than love and compassion for all.

2 Timothy 2:15
Do your best to present yourself to God as one approved, a worker who has no need to be ashamed, rightly handling the word of truth.

John 13:34-35
34. A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another: just as I have loved you, you also are to love one another.
35. By this all people will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another."

Yeah, I don't much care for haters, either.
However, what if they are really nice about not taking the Bible as seriously as you'd like 'em to? Are you okay with them, then?

 

[from scratch]

At church or with church folks there are a number of deal breakers and I personally think they boil down or traceable to one thing - integrity.

 

[cubinity]

At church or with church folks there are a number of deal breakers and I personally think they boil down or traceable to one thing - integrity.

Subjective, of course.
I appreciate that.
I am also frustrated when people aren't operating in integrity.
What other dealbreakers boil down to integrity for you?

 

[simonthezealot]

TRUTH and being flippant with the word.
I can handle some of the interpretive challenges that arise, but when people try to be so relevant that God's word is disrespected it's a deal breaker, also when they preach things as truth that are not levied in scripture.

 

[cubinity]

TRUTH and being flippant with the word.
I can handle some of the interpretive challenges that arise, but when people try to be so relevant that God's word is disrespected it's a deal breaker, also when they preach things as truth that are not levied in scripture.

Interested!
Do you have anything in particular in mind when you say that?

 

[sunlover1]

The guy with the bullhorn has too many restrictions for my comfort.
The universalist has too few.

So, what exactly are the deal breakers of my Christian faith?
I don't know...

What are yours?

I dont fellowship with folks who call themselves Christians but are
fornicators, drunks, liars.. and all of the other folks we're
told to break fellowship with.. homosexuals... adulterers,...
Oh and fools...
Go from the presence of a foolish man,
when thou perceivest not [in him] the lips of knowledge.

(Assuming you meant fellowship deal breakers)
But if they're non Christians, Hey, it's all good!
lol

 

[Brak]

Manipulative people. That absolutely has to be the deal-breaker for me. A lot of sin I won't judge and can tolerate, but not that one. Following the example of Christ, who had the harshest words for the hypocrites and yet kind words for a tax collector and a prostitute, I want nothing to do with manipulative people.

 

[cubinity]

I dont fellowship with folks who call themselves Christians but are
fornicators, drunks, liars.. and all of the other folks we're
told to break fellowship with.. homosexuals... adulterers,...
Oh and fools...
Go from the presence of a foolish man,
when thou perceivest not [in him] the lips of knowledge.

(Assuming you meant fellowship deal breakers)
But if they're non Christians, Hey, it's all good!
lol

Thanks for the specifics.
This really helps me identify exact behaviors you are looking for.
I'd say this is the strongest, or at least the clearest, response so far.

Curious though, what you would say about a Christian alcoholic who keeps falling off the wagon? Does he get cut from your fellowship?

 

[cubinity]

Manipulative people. That absolutely has to be the deal-breaker for me. A lot of sin I won't judge and can tolerate, but not that one. Following the example of Christ, who had the harshest words for the hypocrites and yet kind words for a tax collector and a prostitute, I want nothing to do with manipulative people.

I agree. Manipulative people are really difficult to create healthy boundaries with, and often just need to be disassociated with.

However, there are many ways I've encountered manipulation, from the assertive salesman to the cult leader extraordinaire. I was curious if there was a particular type or caliber of manipulation you were most upset by.

 

[sunlover1]

Thanks for the specifics.
This really helps me identify exact behaviors you are looking for.
I'd say this is the strongest, or at least the clearest, response so far.

Curious though, what you would say about a Christian alcoholic who keeps falling off the wagon? Does he get cut from your fellowship?

I have a friend miss him a lot.
He can't stay off the booze.. and dang, I bet this guy is approaching
60, his life is a mess. His dad died in an alley. And I've been there for
him through the years whenever he dries up but when he's off the
wagon...he doesnt come around or call ! Not sure of the reason...

Im not sure 'why" God says to break fellowship with those calling
themselves Christians yet continuing in sin.. especially drunks..
OBviously God isn't buying the "disease" idea because He calls
it sin.

But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is
called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolater, or a railer, or a
drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat.

It just says "drunkard".
Would "keeping company" with one of the above give the impression
of indifference toward sin? Or would keeping company with one of the
above possibly cause one to stumble too?
Not to mention that if everyone did as told, the drunk/wife beater etc ...
might come to himself when he finds himself alone with God...?
Not sure why but it's what we need to do.

 

[Ortho_Cat]

I'd say the doctrine of Trinity is a" deal-breaker".

 

[cubinity]

I have a friend miss him a lot.
He can't stay off the booze.. and dang, I bet this guy is approaching
60, his life is a mess. His dad died in an alley. And I've been there for
him through the years whenever he dries up but when he's off the
wagon...he doesnt come around or call ! Not sure of the reason...

Im not sure 'why" God says to break fellowship with those calling
themselves Christians yet continuing in sin.. especially drunks..
OBviously God isn't buying the "disease" idea because He calls
it sin.


It just says "drunkard".
Would "keeping company" with one of the above give the impression
of indifference toward sin? Or would keeping company with one of the
above possibly cause one to stumble too?
Not to mention that if everyone did as told, the drunk/wife beater etc ...
might come to himself when he finds himself alone with God...?
Not sure why but it's what we need to do.

The blessing I really take from this is how obvious your heart breaks for this person. It is obvious you love him dearly.

Too many rather enjoy cutting people off, and are just using passages like this to justify what they want to do anyway.

However, it is obvious that you yearn to fellowship with and love on this person, but miss out on experiencing them because of their sin.

I am really moved by the testimony of your loving words. Thank you so much for sharing them.

 

[cubinity]

I'd say the doctrine of Trinity is a" deal-breaker".

I know that is certainly a rule here at CF.
I personally stay away from the philosophical stuff in real-life fellowship because I feel it just stirs debate and division.

In fact, just the other night, our Bible study diverged toward a philosophical discussion about bull-horners and universalists (why is one more frustrating to us than the other?), things started getting a little heated, and we literally had to just kill the conversation because some people were starting to get pretty mad with each other.

The Trinity is another one of those divisive ones, since those who believe in it can't explain it without sub-par analogies or double-speak, and those who don't believe in it fall into too many categories to say any one thing about.

But, as I said, it is a standard of CF, and that's enough to make it a justifiable deal-breaker while we're here. So, yeah, I'll agree with that.

 

[mark46]

It is still not clear whether we are talking about what is a Christian, teaching from a Christian pulpit, attending a local church, members in our local church, attendees of our local church, those who might choose as our accountability group, or those who we choose to speak to and have as friends.
==========================
BEING A CHRISTIAN
There are only 2 deal breakers
1) belief in the Resurrection of Jesus and his victory over death.
2) attempting to follow Jesus (what would Jesus do?)
Jesus only had 2 commands
==========================
TEACHING FROM THE PULPIT
Teaching must help us to know Jesus (his Love and Mercy), else it is worthless.
==========================
ATTENDING A LOCAL CHURCH
For me, the belief that we truly receive Jesus is essential. For me, the focus must be on Jesus. Evangelism and healing are two important components to me. And yes, for me, music is important. I love old hymns and also contemporary music.
=========================
MEMBERSHIP IN THE LOCAL CHURCH
We are an assembly of sinners seeking God. Membership is a convenience for mailings and so forth. It is a commitment to the local church. I cannot imagine shunning sinners. The church is a hospital for sinners, not a place for the righteous to meet and swap stories.
========================
MEMBERS OF AN ACCOUNTABILITY GROUP
Curiously, this is a much more serious decision. Such folks need to have strong commitment to Jesus, discernment, and a willingness to help and call others to be accountable. These are also critical in a pastor or spiritual advisor.
============================
THOSE WHO WE MIGHT SPEAK TO OR CALL FRIENDS
If one restricts these to members of their church or even to fellow Christians, one seriously misreads the example of Jesus.
======================================
There is little sadder in this world than a group of Christians who attend a church of folks who believe as they do (and look like they do) and who only associate with those of their church. For me, this type of activity is only appropriate to monastaries, and even then, most have some interaction with the outside world. We are to be in the world.


==========================

 

[cubinity]

It is still not clear whether we are talking about what is a Christian, teaching from a Christain pulpit, attending a local church, members in our local church, attendees of our local church, those who might choose as our accountability group, or those who we choose to speak to and have as friends.
==========================
BEING A CHRISTIAN
There are only 2 deal breakers
1) belief in the Resurrection of Jesus and his victory over death.
2) attempting to follow Jesus (what would Jesus do?)
Jesus only had 2 commands
==========================
TEACHING FROM THE PULPIT
Teaching must help us to know Jesus (his Love and Mercy), else it is worthless.
==========================
ATTENDING A LOCAL CHURCH
For me, the belief that we truly receive Jesus is essential. For me, the focus must be on Jesus. Evangelism and healing are two important components to me. And yes, for me, music is important. I love old hymns and also contemporary music.
=========================
MEMBERSHIP IN THE LOCAL CHURCH
We are an assembly of sinners seeking God. Membership is a convenience for mailings and so forth. It is a commitment to the local church. I cannot imagine shunning sinners. The church is a hospital for sinners, not a place for the righteous to meet and swap stories.
========================
MEMBERS OF AN ACCOUNTABILITY GROUP
Curiously, this is a much more serious decision. Such folks need to have strong commitment to Jesus, discernment, and a willingness to help and call others to be accountable. These are also critical in a pastor or spiritual advisor.
============================
THOSE WHO WE MIGHT SPEAK TO OR CALL FRIENDS
If one restricts these to members of their church or even to fellow Christians, one seriously misreads the example of Jesus.
======================================
There is little sadder in this world than a group of Christians who attend a church of folks who believe as they do (and look like they do) and who only associate with those of their church. For me, this type of activity is only appropriate to monastaries, and even then, most have some interaction with the outside world. We are to be in the world.


==========================

Thank you. This is a totally awesome post. It covers a lot of base and offers a really challenging point about who we associate with in the world. Thank you.

 

[Noxot]

I suppose when the preacher is always right and never accepts anything from anyone else, and all must follow him because he is always right.