Deal Breakers

[cubinity]

I suppose when the preacher is always right and never accepts anything from anyone else, and all must follow him because he is always right.

Yeah, that's abnoxious when anyone does it, but particularly when it is a person with as much influence as a preacher.

 

[New_Wineskin]

Yeah, that's abnoxious when anyone does it, but particularly when it is a person with as much influence as a preacher.

Even more so when the hierarchy as a whole does it .

Another one ... members of the hierarchy do unspeakable things and then other members of the hierarchy hide it and even put those offenders in another location to repeat those things . When found out , there is mostly silence and no change in how the hierarchy operates - even 9 plus years later . To top it off , they warn people from leaving te group over the situation by telling them that they would put their souls at risk by doing so .

 

[cubinity]

Even more so when the hierarchy as a whole does it .

Another one ... members of the hierarchy do unspeakable things and then other members of the hierarchy hide it and even put those offenders in another location to repeat those things . When found out , there is mostly silence and no change in how the hierarchy operates - even 9 plus years later . To top it off , they warn people from leaving te group over the situation by telling them that they would put their souls at risk by doing so .

Yes. Truly shameful behavior.

 

[singpeace]

Yeah, I don't much care for haters, either.
However, what if they are really nice about not taking the Bible as seriously as you'd like 'em to? Are you okay with them, then?

That's a very good question. The answer is that it depends.

1 John 4 warns us about false teachers and false prophets. A true Christian teacher/prophet will agree that Jesus Christ is God; that He came in the flesh. If they agree with this, they are true followers of Christ. They don't necessarily need to know every scripture to perfection. We are all learning.


However, if they teach that Jesus was not God come in the flesh, then they are not true followers of Christ. They can be charming, witty, intelligent, and soft-spoken. None of that matters. They do not believe in Christ if they deny he was God in the flesh.


1 John 4:1-3
1. Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, for many false prophets have gone out into the world.
2. By this you know the Spirit of God: every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God, 3. and every spirit that does not confess Jesus is not from God. This is the spirit of the antichrist, which you heard was coming and now is in the world already.

 

[wayseer]

Could I suggest you might be looking in the wrong end of the telescope.

God's Grace is not a 'deal' so there is nothing to break.

 

[cubinity]

Could I suggest you might be looking in the wrong end of the telescope.

God's Grace is not a 'deal' so there is nothing to break.

Yes, you absolutely may.
I suppose I meant it is a figure of speech, referring to anything that one might see as reason to disqualify or not associate with something or someone.
However, you do make a wonderful point.

 

[GQ Chris]

Veneration of the Saints (both EO and RC), transubstantiation, Mary worship, Legalism ie. COGIC, Fundy-heretical ie Westboro Baptists, Charismatic/Pentecostalism/WOF, the Prosperity liars, Emergent Church Pseudo-New Age-Christian. Many many more.

 

[cubinity]

That's a very good question. The answer is that it depends.

1 John 4 warns us about false teachers and false prophets. A true Christian teacher/prophet will agree that Jesus Christ is God; that He came in the flesh. If they agree with this, they are true followers of Christ. They don't necessarily need to know every scripture to perfection. We are all learning.


However, if they teach that Jesus was not God come in the flesh, then they are not true followers of Christ. They can be charming, witty, intelligent, and soft-spoken. None of that matters. They do not believe in Christ if they deny he was God in the flesh.


1 John 4:1-3
1. Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, for many false prophets have gone out into the world.
2. By this you know the Spirit of God: every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God, 3. and every spirit that does not confess Jesus is not from God. This is the spirit of the antichrist, which you heard was coming and now is in the world already.

This is a very thought-filled post. Thank you.

I don't want to get involved in a debate, but I wanted to ask about the basis for which you uphold ''Jesus IS God'' and no ''Jesus is FROM God'' as the quoted passage states?

Of course, I personally accept the interpretation of John 1 and the creeds as evidence enough for me, but this is definitely a question I've been faced with before, so I thought I'd forward it on to you to see what you'd say.

 

[cubinity]

Veneration of the Saints (both EO and RC), transubstantiation, Mary worship, Legalism ie. COGIC, Fundy-heretical ie Westboro Baptists, Charismatic/Pentecostalism/WOF, the Prosperity liars, Emergent Church Pseudo-New Age-Christian. Many many more.

Wow. That's a pretty intense list. I did notice you included legalism.
Since I see a group I loosely identify with on your list (emergent church) I am interested in what about it is a deal-breaker for you.

 

[GQ Chris]

Wow. That's a pretty intense list. I did notice you included legalism.
Since I see a group I loosely identify with on your list (emergent church) I am interested in what about it is a deal-breaker for you.

Emergent Church? Just call that New Age Christianity that basically throws scripture in the trash.

You know who John Macarthur is? Go on Grace To You's website, he has some great articles on the Emergent Church.

 

[GQ Chris]

By the way, before I was Christian I was New Age and dabbled in Buddhism also.

 

[sunlover1]

By the way, before I was Christian I was New Age and dabbled in Buddhism also.

How exciting it must have been for you to find the Lord !

 

[cubinity]

Emergent Church? Just call that New Age Christianity that basically throws scripture in the trash.

You know who John Macarthur is? Go on Grace To You's website, he has some great articles on the Emergent Church.

Ew, harsh. I'll check those articles out, tho. Thanks for the recommendation.

 

[from scratch]

I suppose when the preacher is always right and never accepts anything from anyone else, and all must follow him because he is always right.

One of the fastest ways the reveive the left hand of fellowship and falls into the category of manipulation. It doesn't go just for the preacher/pastor but anyone of perceoived social power position.

 

[from scratch]

Even more so when the hierarchy as a whole does it .

Another one ... members of the hierarchy do unspeakable things and then other members of the hierarchy hide it and even put those offenders in another location to repeat those things . When found out , there is mostly silence and no change in how the hierarchy operates - even 9 plus years later . To top it off , they warn people from leaving te group over the situation by telling them that they would put their souls at risk by doing so .

Are you talking about the good ole boys club of a group called generally ministers? At 19 I didn't take the first stepin being one because of that very thing.

 

[from scratch]

Could I suggest you might be looking in the wrong end of the telescope.

God's Grace is not a 'deal' so there is nothing to break.

Ah but is the view so broad as to have no focus and be a meaningless blur? I thought Jesus said the way is narrow.

 

[cubinity]

Emergent Church? Just call that New Age Christianity that basically throws scripture in the trash.

You know who John Macarthur is? Go on Grace To You's website, he has some great articles on the Emergent Church.

Ah, yes. After reading the distinction quote by Mark Driscoll (quoted in one of the MacArthur articles you suggested), between the Emerging Church and the Emergent Church, I realize that what I identify with is the Emerging Church. My mistake earlier, and I thank you for pointing me toward the subtle terminology difference there. I really appreciate it!

 

[New_Wineskin]

Are you talking about the good ole boys club of a group called benerally ministers? At 19 I didn't take the first stepin being one because of that very thing.

Not specifically . If I was specific on this , I may have the mods on me ... again .

It could happen to any group with leadership that takes their role as more important than the rest of the group .