Dead Faith still saves, Romans 4:5

[RDKirk]

Does God not know a persons heart/mind and is God's free gift of Eternal Life received by faith with no other condition needed. If you are to say yes, then why does God need to see a woman overcome drug addiction.

Does God not know what she believed in her heart/mind, when she was presented how to receive God's free gift of Eternal Life.

Now if a person believes (and there are many) it takes more than faith,trust,belief in Jesus to receive God's free gift Eternal Life. Then i can see where they say it also takes besides faith fruit bearing, repentance, obedience, etc...

So not sure about you but i believe it only takes faith in the Messiah to receive God's free gift of eternal Life salvation. So not even an ounce of fruit bearing, repentance, obedience is needed.

You, then, are professing a feckless faith.

 

[Danthemailman]

I fell away? from the faith for nearly 7yrs,
Quit Praying, Never repented and didn't acknowledge the LORD at all really.. (prayer is a WORK)
the LORD Brought me Back to Repent last year around August.. hallelujah!!!.........

Proverbs 24:16 - For a righteous man may fall seven times And rise again, But the wicked shall fall by calamity.

 

[Danthemailman]

Like i posted to RDKirk.

Does God not know a persons heart/mind and is God's free gift of Eternal Life received by faith with no other condition needed. If you are to say yes, then why does God need to see fruit bearing form a person?
Does God not know when a person trust in The Messiah for God's free gift of Eternal Life salvation. Why would He (God) need to see physical works from a person, unless it is believed that these actions/works are part of receiving eternal life.

God does know our hearts and whether or not we have truly received the free gift of eternal life through faith. I never said that God must see fruit before he knows a person's heart.

There are two types of Justifications, one before God, which is by faith (in The Messiah) only

Greek word for justified "dikaioo" #1344:

1. to render righteous or such he ought to be
2. to show, exhibit, evince, one to be righteous, such as he is and wishes himself to be considered
3. to declare, pronounce, one to be just, righteous, or such as he ought to be

and the other justification is before man, which is only by works, because man can not see the heart/mind of a person.

Greek word for justified "dikaioo" #1344:

1. to render righteous or such he ought to be
2. to show, exhibit, evince, one to be righteous, such as he is and wishes himself to be considered
3. to declare, pronounce, one to be just, righteous, or such as he ought to be

They can only judge by outward appearances (works/actions fruit bearing, commitment, etc..) but there is a big difference between God and mans justification. God's justification is the only way to receive His free gift of Eternal Life.

When Paul uses the term "justified" he is referring to the legal (judicial) act by which God accounts the believer as righteous. (Romans 3:28; 4:2-3; 5:1) James, however is using the term "justified" to describe those who would show the genuineness of their faith by the works that they do. (James 2:18,21,24)

Man justification is for fellowship and eventually receiving of rewards from God, if these works are done by The Holy Spirit, this justification has nothing to do with becoming a born again child of God.

It is through faith "in Christ alone" (and not based on the merits of our works) that we are justified/accounted as righteous on account of Christ (Romans 3:24; 5:1; 5:9); yet the faith that justifies does not remain alone (unfruitful, barren) if it is genuine. (James 2:14-24) *Perfect Harmony*

James is discussing the evidence of faith (says-claims to have faith but has no works/I will show you my faith by my works - James 2:14-18) and not the initial act of being accounted as righteous with God. (Romans 4:2-3)

 

[LW97Nils]

God does know our hearts and whether or not we have truly received the free gift of eternal life through faith. I never said that God must see fruit before he knows a person's heart.


Greek word for justified "dikaioo" #1344:

1. to render righteous or such he ought to be
2. to show, exhibit, evince, one to be righteous, such as he is and wishes himself to be considered
3. to declare, pronounce, one to be just, righteous, or such as he ought to be


Greek word for justified "dikaioo" #1344:

1. to render righteous or such he ought to be
2. to show, exhibit, evince, one to be righteous, such as he is and wishes himself to be considered
3. to declare, pronounce, one to be just, righteous, or such as he ought to be


When Paul uses the term "justified" he is referring to the legal (judicial) act by which God accounts the believer as righteous. (Romans 3:28; 4:2-3; 5:1) James, however is using the term "justified" to describe those who would show the genuineness of their faith by the works that they do. (James 2:18,21,24)


It is through faith "in Christ alone" (and not based on the merits of our works) that we are justified/accounted as righteous on account of Christ (Romans 3:24; 5:1; 5:9); yet the faith that justifies does not remain alone (unfruitful, barren) if it is genuine. (James 2:14-24) *Perfect Harmony*

James is discussing the evidence of faith (says-claims to have faith but has no works/I will show you my faith by my works - James 2:14-18) and not the initial act of being accounted as righteous with God. (Romans 4:2-3)

I find nothing to disagree.

 

[zoidar]

Let's put it rather simply. If one 'loses their salvation', why claim they were really saved? One is by definition not saved if one doesn't "make it to Heaven."

Saved means being brought into a right relationship with God, being "righteous", right with God. Can a right relationship with God be broken?

 

[Mark Quayle]

Saved means being brought into a right relationship with God, being "righteous", right with God. Can a right relationship with God be broken?

"Saved" also means one's sins (past, present and future) are forgiven. Can that be undone, and Christ have paid in vain? "Saved" also means that one has been regenerated; can the change from death to life return to death again? "Saved" also means that one was ordained for the purpose by God's decree. Can anyone undo what God has established?

 

[zoidar]

"Saved" also means one's sins (past, present and future) are forgiven. Can that be undone, and Christ have paid in vain? "Saved" also means that one has been regenerated; can the change from death to life return to death again? "Saved" also means that one was ordained for the purpose by God's decree. Can anyone undo what God has established?

I'm sure there will be a time for us discuss this closer. I don't want to derail this thread more than I have already done.