deaconesses

[Meowzltov]

We've heard how the Greek Orthodox Church now has deaconesses again. Does anyone know about how many there are or where they are serving?

 

[Anhelyna]

HA - come here to get the information I asked you for on OBOB ?

I'm going to be very interested to see the replies you get

 

[RobNJ]

They do?
i'm not aware of any, for the last few centuries

 

[Meowzltov]

They do?
i'm not aware of any, for the last few centuries

World ‘Orthodox’ Gather to Support Women’s Ordination
However, modern Antiochians and other World Orthodox do indeed tonsure women readers and their bishops proclaim they have received the ‘first degree of the priesthood.’
http://nftu.net/world-orthodox-gather-support-womens-ordination/

 

[Anhelyna]

I've given you my answer on the thread I started here.

 

[~Anastasia~]

World ‘Orthodox’ Gather to Support Women’s Ordination
However, modern Antiochians and other World Orthodox do indeed tonsure women readers and their bishops proclaim they have received the ‘first degree of the priesthood.’
http://nftu.net/world-orthodox-gather-support-womens-ordination/

Anyone know what kind of a site this is?

I can't tell for sure. It looks like one of those "true" Orthodox sites (always a tip off that they are not, IME) and it appears they bring charges against the OCA. I wouldn't trust the charges of schismatics, if that's what they are. And I thought "New Skete" was not a canonical monastery?

 

[gzt]

New Skete is an OCA monastery.

What is the prayer they read when tonsuring the women? Or, indeed, for tonsuring generally among Greeks? I tried to look it up once and did not see anything in there about the first rank of the priesthood, which is part of the Russian prayers, to be sure. But the minor offices in the Greek ordo are slightly different and, you know, if it was once licit to have female deaconesses of some kind, it seems silly to say that minor orders are right out of the question.

 

[gzt]

As for female deaconesses: try to find a picture of one.

 

[Anhelyna]

Kylissa - just spotted this on their home page

NFTU is an independent news site focused on events in the True Orthodox Churches and the endeavors of the Ecumenists collected from inside and outside sources.

They also link to Euphrosynos Cafe as one of their suggested informative and news sites

I would be very very suspicious

 

[buzuxi02]

That is an old calendarist schismatic site. The real question is what duties do these nuns have that they didnt have before. Regardless its nothing like the ancient order when custom and roman law required the seperation of the sexes in many aspects of life. Also adult baptisms are now performed with the candidate wearing a tunic or bathing suit not in the nude and chrism isnt anointed upon most of the body anymore. So the primary duty of a deaconess has become obselete.

 

[~Anastasia~]

New Skete is an OCA monastery.

What is the prayer they read when tonsuring the women? Or, indeed, for tonsuring generally among Greeks? I tried to look it up once and did not see anything in there about the first rank of the priesthood, which is part of the Russian prayers, to be sure. But the minor offices in the Greek ordo are slightly different and, you know, if it was once licit to have female deaconesses of some kind, it seems silly to say that minor orders are right out of the question.

Ah, well I thought I read something about New Skete one time. Perhaps I confused it with another.

We have a female reader of the epistle sometimes. I don't know if she's tonsured. We have a female chanter sometimes too.

But that's a lot different from a minor order of priesthood, as I know that you know.

 

[Anhelyna]

I'll be naughty and paste in the reply I'd made on my own thread on the subject here referring to the Site posted by OpenHeart

oh dear me - that's just as Readers , and that's where they will remain , they will progress no further .

If I recall correctly the 'stages/degrees ' are Reader , Chanter / Diak , Deacon and finally Priest and if later elected Bishop.

Yes a Reader is Tonsured [ a small amount of hair is cut in the shape of a cross ]

BTW I have just asked a Greek Orthodox Priest and his reply was << no nothing like that heard here >>

 

[gzt]

Ah, well I thought I read something about New Skete one time. Perhaps I confused it with another.

"Traditionalists" don't like New Skete. Well, a lot of people don't like them. They're a little "experimental" and let's just say there will not be more monasteries like them.

Reading the epistle is different from being a "reader", though this happens to be one of the listed duties of a "reader". The Greeks still may (?) split out the office of anagnostes from psaltis, while the Russians don't, but they're the same level. At least among the Russians, the "reader" is also a "taperbearer" - the office subsumed another minor office. In the pre-Nikonian Russian Church, there were more minor offices, with essentially parallel tracks between the kliros and the altar (there was a singing equivalent of a subdeacon, I forget the name).

 

[Stabat Mater dolorosa]

Try to answer people with the same amout of respect that you would like to be spoken to yourself Anhelyna even if it's difficult sometimes.

I find this copy pasting action of yours from another thread very rude and to be a kind of mockery which I, based on past experiences with you as a poster don't find to suit your very decent caracter.

Please don't consider this an attack from me, but an friendly advice from a brother in Christ.


With Love
- aCoM

 

[ArmyMatt]

Anyone know what kind of a site this is?

I can't tell for sure. It looks like one of those "true" Orthodox sites (always a tip off that they are not, IME) and it appears they bring charges against the OCA. I wouldn't trust the charges of schismatics, if that's what they are. And I thought "New Skete" was not a canonical monastery?

yes, it is Schismatic, which means it is garbage.

 

[~Anastasia~]

"Traditionalists" don't like New Skete. Well, a lot of people don't like them. They're a little "experimental" and let's just say there will not be more monasteries like them.

Reading the epistle is different from being a "reader", though this happens to be one of the listed duties of a "reader". The Greeks still may (?) split out the office of anagnostes from psaltis, while the Russians don't, but they're the same level. At least among the Russians, the "reader" is also a "taperbearer" - the office subsumed another minor office. In the pre-Nikonian Russian Church, there were more minor offices, with essentially parallel tracks between the kliros and the altar (there was a singing equivalent of a subdeacon, I forget the name).

Thank you, gzt. There are if course many things I still have to learn, and pretty much anything about the minor offices falls there. There has been zero reason for me to need to know. All I know is Father says, "Peace be to you the reader".

I did look up once what deacons do, because we don't have one and Father mentioned they had liturgical duties, but we wouldn't learn that from our parish.

I have nothing against New Skete btw. In fact, I wish I'd realized they were Orthodox sooner, and perhaps my life might have even been different. I read everything the published about dogs, and some other things besides. In my ignorance, I assumed monks had to be Catholic. I've read monastic texts at several points in my life, and if I hadn't been so ignorant ... But then again, God knows how it will all work out and I'm just going to accept that where I am and where I've been is the best thing for me.

Maybe it was them I looked into. The monastery I'm thinking of had both a men's monastery (or section), a women's monastery/section, and some that lived as "companions" - I think men and women together which I assumed meant married-couple monastics. Experimental indeed ... and not one likely to be repeated. That's all I know, and if there is anything bad I don't wish to know it. But I thought they were schismatic because of it.

 

[ArmyMatt]

and the "companions" thingie is slowly dying off.

 

[~Anastasia~]

and the "companions" thingie is slowly dying off.

If it IS married couples attached to a monastery - I wish it could work. But everything I've ever heard is a sharp defining line between married and monastics. I have to think there's probably a good reason for that ...

I just dream of moving within walking distance of a monastery someday. Attending services. Quiet, prayer, learning. Happy to help. But I'm not a monastic, and that is that.

 

[prodromos]

If it IS married couples attached to a monastery - I wish it could work. But everything I've ever heard is a sharp defining line between married and monastics. I have to think there's probably a good reason for that ...

I just dream of moving within walking distance of a monastery someday. Attending services. Quiet, prayer, learning. Happy to help. But I'm not a monastic, and that is that.

There are many, many married Saints on the Church calendar. One does not need to be a monastic to acquire the Holy Spirit

 

[All4Christ]

If it IS married couples attached to a monastery - I wish it could work. But everything I've ever heard is a sharp defining line between married and monastics. I have to think there's probably a good reason for that ...

I just dream of moving within walking distance of a monastery someday. Attending services. Quiet, prayer, learning. Happy to help. But I'm not a monastic, and that is that.

I understand the feeling!