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In doing some wandering around the Internet, I found an interesting article regarding David Bentley Hart and his response to the Indian Ocean tsunami. He was apparently dissatisfied with the responses from both Christians and atheists and penned a small book called THE DOORS OF THE SEA.
The blog I was reading ends with an apparent nod to Hart's universalism: Our end is not in sorrow, but infinite joy, because the God whom we worship will deliver us from all evil.
To which I have posted the following:
Lovely thinking, but it still does not answer the question of hell and eternal torment as found in the Scriptures. I realize that Hart is a universalist, for whom salvation is all-inclusive. That is to say, in his paradigm, every man and woman, after a period of restorative chastening in the next life, shall enter into the glory of God's love and the redeemed Kingdom. That is a lovely thought, but it poses further problems which appear to have no answers.
The main problem is that it is not David Bentley Hart who is spoken of in the Scriptures as the "pillar and ground of truth." It is the Church, and the Church has made it quite clear that any other theology than eternal damnation for the wicked is heretical and not to be followed. Which raises this problem: if Hart is right, and the Church (both Orthodox East and Catholic West) are wrong, then Protestantism in all its forms (tens of thousands at last count) can lay claim to being "the truth."
Take away the authority of the Church to hold the truth without error and you open the door for theological chaos. Truth then becomes subjective, open to the whims of every man who thinks he has some sort of "special leading" of the Holy Spirit, whether it be Jimmy Swaggart's Honky-Tonk Blues Religion or Ellen White's mysterious light falling upon a certain verse in the Scriptures, by which she was convinced that God has directly spoken to her.
This said, if the Church has issued on the fate of the soul in the next life, and if indeed there is a hell to be feared and avoided, and if Christ Jesus and relationship to Him is the ONLY way to avoid said lake of fire, then there is a high degree of possibility that the majority of those who perished in the tsunami are in that hell right now.
Which means that A.) God never intended for them to be saved B.) the Calvinists are right C.) we are all pretty much screwed, except of course, for those who God, in His inscrutable way has decided to "save" and bring to His Kingdom in the next life.
You say that our end is not sorrow, but infinite joy. The Church says differently. If what the Church teaches is not true, then to whom do I go and whom do I trust for the truth?
I would very much appreciate a response to this, as I am slowly watching my faith in a "good God" drain from me like so much water leaving a leaking sink.
Just looking for a little conversation on this point. What is your take on the following question:
What does it mean to be the "pillar and ground of truth?" Does that mean that the truth is everything ever taught by the Church, or does it have a more narrow focus, i.e., that Gospel "good news" which the Apostles preached - not getting "saved" but the RESURRECTION. It is the Resurrection which was the main focus of Paul's preaching.
Is this the "truth" which the Church protects and all else is somewhat up for grabs? I say this because I see in both the East and the West terrible heretical tendencies, from the Arianism of all the Eastern bishops to the strange doctrines of the Latin Church.
What is truth? Yes, yes, Christ is truth, but it seems that truth is no longer just Him, but all the accretions of barnacles on the Ship of the Church.
Forgive me, I'm rambling. I've had another bad day and will be heading to Confession tomorrow.
The blog I was reading ends with an apparent nod to Hart's universalism: Our end is not in sorrow, but infinite joy, because the God whom we worship will deliver us from all evil.
To which I have posted the following:
Lovely thinking, but it still does not answer the question of hell and eternal torment as found in the Scriptures. I realize that Hart is a universalist, for whom salvation is all-inclusive. That is to say, in his paradigm, every man and woman, after a period of restorative chastening in the next life, shall enter into the glory of God's love and the redeemed Kingdom. That is a lovely thought, but it poses further problems which appear to have no answers.
The main problem is that it is not David Bentley Hart who is spoken of in the Scriptures as the "pillar and ground of truth." It is the Church, and the Church has made it quite clear that any other theology than eternal damnation for the wicked is heretical and not to be followed. Which raises this problem: if Hart is right, and the Church (both Orthodox East and Catholic West) are wrong, then Protestantism in all its forms (tens of thousands at last count) can lay claim to being "the truth."
Take away the authority of the Church to hold the truth without error and you open the door for theological chaos. Truth then becomes subjective, open to the whims of every man who thinks he has some sort of "special leading" of the Holy Spirit, whether it be Jimmy Swaggart's Honky-Tonk Blues Religion or Ellen White's mysterious light falling upon a certain verse in the Scriptures, by which she was convinced that God has directly spoken to her.
This said, if the Church has issued on the fate of the soul in the next life, and if indeed there is a hell to be feared and avoided, and if Christ Jesus and relationship to Him is the ONLY way to avoid said lake of fire, then there is a high degree of possibility that the majority of those who perished in the tsunami are in that hell right now.
Which means that A.) God never intended for them to be saved B.) the Calvinists are right C.) we are all pretty much screwed, except of course, for those who God, in His inscrutable way has decided to "save" and bring to His Kingdom in the next life.
You say that our end is not sorrow, but infinite joy. The Church says differently. If what the Church teaches is not true, then to whom do I go and whom do I trust for the truth?
I would very much appreciate a response to this, as I am slowly watching my faith in a "good God" drain from me like so much water leaving a leaking sink.
Just looking for a little conversation on this point. What is your take on the following question:
What does it mean to be the "pillar and ground of truth?" Does that mean that the truth is everything ever taught by the Church, or does it have a more narrow focus, i.e., that Gospel "good news" which the Apostles preached - not getting "saved" but the RESURRECTION. It is the Resurrection which was the main focus of Paul's preaching.
Is this the "truth" which the Church protects and all else is somewhat up for grabs? I say this because I see in both the East and the West terrible heretical tendencies, from the Arianism of all the Eastern bishops to the strange doctrines of the Latin Church.
What is truth? Yes, yes, Christ is truth, but it seems that truth is no longer just Him, but all the accretions of barnacles on the Ship of the Church.
Forgive me, I'm rambling. I've had another bad day and will be heading to Confession tomorrow.