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Oh, there are agnostic theists as well. Some people admit that they do not or cannot know whether or not a god exists, but still believe one does. I think most tend towards agnostic atheist, though.So, is anyone who says they're agnostic actually an atheistic agnostic or something?
I'm sorry, I don't understand either your point or your question. Could you rephrase?I was going to side with Richard for a sec, but it looks like you are right.
Rich and I were thinking of definition #2, while you are talking about definition #1. Now, where do Dualists fit on this scale?
No, a person who is agnostic admits he doesn't know. He can be a theist or an atheist - he can believe or not believe. Agnosticism relates to knowledge, not belief.So, is anyone who says they're agnostic actually an atheistic agnostic or something?
I wouldn't know, regardless, I wouldn't take anything as absolute truth from skeptic.com. The source used for the quote is "(cited by Wilhelm Niemoller in Kampi und Zeugnis der bekennenden Kirche — Struggle and Testimony of the Confessing Church, p. 526. and Cochrane)"
From reading the article, I see that the quote has been used in Time magazine.
Time Magazine, December 23, 1940 (page 38).1 “The best tribute to the spirit of Germany’s Christians comes from a Jew and an agnostic (Time, Sept. 23) — the world’s most famous scientist, Albert Einstein,”
LM, do you have access to this? "Unpublished letter, Einstein Archives, item number 58-548."
Just an aside here - yes, you are. Everybody is an atheist or a theist. Basically, 'atheist' means 'not a theist'. You must be one of the two.
The scale goes:
Theist Agnostic Theist Agnostic Atheist Agnostic Theist
Some like to argue that there is a category in the middle for someone who thinks it is equiprobable for both God to exist, and to not exist, and thus takes neither position. I don't really know if a lack of a position on this list counts as a position on it?
She can be an agnostic. "Without Knowledge"
She can certainly be an agnostic.
Then you're an atheist. Easy.But No, I am neither Theist nor Atheist in the regard that I do not "Believe" in your definition of God.
It doesn't have to be an issue for you; if you don't have belief, you're an atheist.The Question of Belief is not even an Issue for me. It's a Philosophical Stance, not a Matter of Belief.
If someone "knows" (ie., holds the opinion with a high degree of certainty), then they believe by definition.So, where in that scale would someone fit who "Knows" there is a God but has no Belief in that God?
So, where in that scale would someone fit who "Knows" there is a God but has no Belief in that God?
Just for future Reference.
Then you're an atheist. Easy.
It doesn't have to be an issue for you; if you don't have belief, you're an atheist.
If someone "knows" (ie., holds the opinion with a high degree of certainty), then they believe by definition.
Umm...sorry, but atheism means lack of belief in any god/gods. What Christians were once branded as is irrelevant; what is relevant is how the word is used today. And today it's used to mean lack of belief in any god or gods.Hate to point this out, but you're wrong. Atheism is predominantly used not to convey "no belief in any god/gods" but "failure to believe in a particular god". Christians were once branded as "dangerous atheists" for professing their non-belief in the Roman gods, for which they were roundly and routinely punished with crucifixions, burnings, flayings, or a combination thereof - all because atheism was dangerous in that it invited the wrath of the gods to be invited on the whole Roman population.
You can use the term "atheist" however you wish, but you will always convey "failure to believe in a particular god" in the same way that someone using the term "Christian" conveys "fundamentalist creationist bible-pounding gay-basher."
Umm...sorry, but atheism means lack of belief in any god/gods. What Christians were once branded as is irrelevant; what is relevant is how the word is used today. And today it's used to mean lack of belief in any god or gods.
Then you're an atheist. Easy.
It doesn't have to be an issue for you; if you don't have belief, you're an atheist.
If someone "knows" (ie., holds the opinion with a high degree of certainty), then they believe by definition.
do you mean someone who doesn't need belief because they already know? if so how do you know? Or do you mean someone who knows god exists but has no loyalty to that god? that you have no faith in god the same way someone may lack faith in people.
By the way, DrkSdBls, I personally don't think anybody here should be stating (and I hope they're not) that you should call yourself an atheist as well as an agnostic. It's clear that both terms apply, but it should also be clear to us all that one of these words more closely explains how you approach the idea of a god. Just bear in mind that the statement, "I am an atheist," does not mean, "I believe no god exists." What it does mean is, "I have no belief in any deity." The difference is naturally subtle, but the first is a positive claim that no such thing exists, while the second is a negative claim, a mere lack of belief. Clearly some atheists will be able to claim both stances as being accurate for themselves, but others will only hold to the second stance (lack of belief).
At most, I've have concidered myself Agnostic.
But, that's beside the point.
Then they're wrong. If I tell you I like bananas and you interepret that as "I hate sausages", you're wrong.By atheists, yes. By non-atheists... well, just tell nearly any Christian that you're an atheist, and they interpret that as "You hate Jesus and God." The Christian God, mind you.
No, it's not complicated at all. If you believe that a god exists, you're a theist. If you don't, you're an atheist. It's as simple as that.Nope. it's far more complecated then that. I can never and will never be an Atheist. It's an impossible stance for me.
No, you said "knows", in inverted commas, which indicates that you didn't actually mean 'knows' (or you would have left out the inverted commas). I had to guess what you actually meant. But judging by the following paragraph of yours, you are of the opinion that a god exists.I never said anything about "Opinion."
To understand god, you would have to hold that he exists; that makes you a theist. And yes, if you hold that he exists, you believe in him.I do not "Believe" in a God by Your understanding of it. I understand God the same way as I understand my own Thoughts.
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