Darwin - Half Right

stevil · May 18, 2021

AV1611VET said:
And Paul warns about that too.

In fact, his warning at the time was to those who "hold the truth in unrighteousness."

How many people have you met that said, "I was a Christian once, until I learned they lied to me about evolution"?

I don't go around asking people to tell me their deconversion story.
I have read a couple of books/leaflets from religious organisations trying to convince me that evolution isn't true. Those books then delve into psuedo-science and it doesn't make the organisation look particularly honest or smart.

AV1611VET · May 18, 2021

stevil said:
Those books then delve into psuedo-science and it doesn't make the organisation look particularly honest or smart.

No argument there.

Bradskii · May 18, 2021

AV1611VET said:
There's not a single knowledgeable Christian I've seen get respect for arguing against evolution.

And I just spent some time telling you about one. But Ham and Hovind are charlatans. No more. No less. They deserve all the respect they get from anyone with a basic understanding of the evolutionary process. Which is none. Because, like you, they don't understand enough of the science to be able to argue against it. Yet they do. Which makes them look foolish. They are intentionally ignorant, which is the worst sort of ignorance.

As opposed to my old CA chum who was extremely well versed in the science and one had to treat his arguments with some respect. There was no hand waving. I actually learned a lot more about evolution in debating him. I had to because one needs to argue as much on equal terms as possible. There were actually times when I had to admit I wasn't up to speed on some aspect of a point he was making so I had to take time out to learn about it to make sure he had a good point or not. And then re-engage.

But you can't seem to be bothered. You're in the same boat as Ham and Hovind (no pun intended re Ham).

And yes, a little child can argue against evolution. Because a little child doesn't understand the basics. It all sounds impossible to a child. But that's exactly the level at which you are arguing.

sjastro · May 18, 2021

AV1611VET said:
Then don't ask questions you KNOW aren't covered by Scripture, thinking you're making some kind of "gotcha point."

I'm not saying you do that -- (my memory isn't that good) -- but some do.

I like other posters in this thread are trying to make sense how you can conclude without any evidence whatsoever Jacobean English is the progenitor language to all other languages.
You have not given one straight answer to justify your reasons and hide behind chapter and verse knowing very well you are not representing the views of creationists on this subject who consider Hebrew as the original language.

If Jacobean English is the original language then why are the names in the genealogies prior to Babel have meanings in Hebrew??
Why not Jacobean English if this was the language spoken prior to Babel?

Bungle_Bear · May 19, 2021

AV1611VET said:
What "problem"?

The problem that the bible says one thing but you need it to say something else.

Oneiric1975 · May 19, 2021

AV1611VET said:
Then it's in the Koran? the Bhavagad-gita? and others?

Do you not believe that people in Islam or Hinduism feel that their holy books are true and accurate?

Oneiric1975 · May 19, 2021

AV1611VET said:
The Bible isn't a Book of hypotheses. It is a Book of plain truth.

...it has truths in it. Many wonderful truths. Most of which are currently fought against by the most pious in our country today.

AV1611VET · May 19, 2021

Oneiric1975 said:
Do you not believe that people in Islam or Hinduism feel that their holy books are true and accurate?

Yes, but I also believe that there is a "stronger pull" towards the Truth.

As Jesus put it:

John 12:32 And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me.

That's why I don't think their beliefs in their holy books ... just like atheists' non-beliefs in the Bible ... is going to be an acceptable excuse at the Great White Throne Judgement.

AV1611VET · May 19, 2021

Oneiric1975 said:
...it has truths in it. Many wonderful truths. Most of which are currently fought against by the most pious in our country today.

We call those people "mission fields."

Oneiric1975 · May 19, 2021

AV1611VET said:
Yes, but I also believe that there is a "stronger pull" towards the Truth.

As Jesus put it:

John 12:32 And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me.

That's why I don't think their beliefs in their holy books ... just like atheists' non-beliefs in the Bible ... is going to be an acceptable excuse at the Great White Throne Judgement.

"O' it won't be ol' Buddha
Sittin' on that throne.
And it won't be Ol' Mohammed,
Callin' us home!

And it won't be Hare Krishna,
Playin' that trumpet tune,
Cuz we're going to see the Son,
Not Rev'rend Moon...."

Oneiric1975 · May 19, 2021

AV1611VET said:
We call those people "mission fields."

I don't understand. You call the current Religious Right in the USA "mission fields"? Interesting.

driewerf · May 19, 2021

sjastro said:
Given my last post was written in plain modern English you don't have an excuse for misunderstanding by answering a question with a question.

Here is the Indo-European language family tree of which the history of English is a very small subset. Red indicates extinct or dead languages.

Let me ask you again; if Jacobean English is the progenitor language why does the evidence put it at the bottom of the tree rather than the top?

[creationist modus] This is evolution. Hence wrong. All educatees just hate christianity and the bible. You need to home school you children and just tell them about the Tower of Babel, not those satanic lies of languages "evolving into one another". If a language evolved show me than Latin giving birth to French. [/creationist modus]

Oneiric1975 · May 19, 2021

driewerf said:
[creationist modus] This is evolution. Hence wrong. All educatees just hate christianity and the bible. You need to home school you children and just tell them about the Tower of Babel, not those satanic lies of languages "evolving into one another". If a language evolved show me than Latin giving birth to French. [/creationist modus]

Given that French is a Romance Language and hence derived from Latin I guess we need to find a "transitional language" between Latin and French. Right?

AV1611VET · May 19, 2021

Oneiric1975 said:
...it has truths in it. Many wonderful truths. Most of which are currently fought against by the most pious in our country today.

AV1611VET said:
We call those people "mission fields."

Oneiric1975 said:
I don't understand. You call the current Religious Right in the USA "mission fields"? Interesting.

Does the "current Religious Right in the USA" fight against "most of the Bible's many wonderful truths"?

Oneiric1975 · May 19, 2021

AV1611VET said:
Does the "current Religious Right in the USA" fight against "most of the Bible's many wonderful truths"?

Seems so.

According to the Religious Right in the US we:
1. Need to live by the sword (more guns)
2. We need to cut the poor off (no welfare without degradation and opprobrium attached)

They overwhelmingly supported the presidency of a man who violates nearly EVERY SINGLE THING they supposedly found moral (he lied, he cheated on every single wife he's ever had, he mocked the disabled, he denigrated the poor, he lives in a golden palace and worships money.)

So I'm not entirely certain what the Religious Right stands for that WOULD be valuable to a functional society.

AV1611VET · May 19, 2021

Oneiric1975 said:
Seems so.

Then we call them "mission fields."

driewerf · May 19, 2021

Oneiric1975 said:
Given that French is a Romance Language and hence derived from Latin I guess we need to find a "transitional language" between Latin and French. Right?

I am absolutely no expert, but Occitan and/or Catalan might be good candidates. And modern French has itself ~~evolved~~ adapted from medieval French.

Astrid · May 19, 2021

Oneiric1975 said:
Given that French is a Romance Language and hence derived from Latin I guess we need to find a "transitional language" between Latin and French. Right?

You need to find the first person who spoke Frenvh.

Oneiric1975 · May 19, 2021

driewerf said:
I am absolutely no expert, but Occitan and/or Catalan might be good candidates. And modern French has itself ~~evolved~~ adapted from medieval French.

Oops! Then we'll need transitional forms between Occitan and Latin and between Occitan and Medieval French.

Once we have that we'll need transitional forms between Medieval French and modern French (closer in to the Tower of Babel you can get with the dating the better).

Oneiric1975 · May 19, 2021

AV1611VET said:
Then we call them "mission fields."

Well, get on it then!

Darwin - Half Right

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