Daniel's 70th week

[sovereigngrace]

There for certain would be no gaps in them. But that doesn't prove there are no gaps in the 70 weeks.

Let me demonstrate something here.

Daniel 9:27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

Let's assume one's position is, there are no gaps in the 70 weeks. Clearly this verse is meaning the 70th week, yet the same ones claiming no gaps in the 70 weeks have this part---and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate---meaning a much later time in history, some thinking maybe 70 AD.

The fact verse 27 is the 70th week, how can one claim there are no gaps in the 70 weeks, then turn right around and contradict that by claiming what I pasted from the latter part of this verse, that this is meaning a much later time in history? If that is not a gap in the 70 weeks, what is it then?

Every sensible theologian of all end-times views see these initial "seventy years" in Daniel 9 congruent and sequential, why would see the following any different?

Daniel 9:21-24: “while I was speaking in prayer, even the man Gabriel, whom I had seen in the vision at the beginning, being caused to fly swiftly, touched me about the time of the evening oblation. And he informed me, and talked with me, and said, O Daniel, I am now come forth to give thee skill and understanding. At the beginning of thy supplications the commandment came forth, and I am come to shew thee; for thou art greatly beloved: therefore understand the matter, and consider the vision. Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.”

The entire prophecy of Daniel 9:24-27 covers a period of "seventy weeks." There is no reason to understand it other than a period that applies to one complete, sequential block of time. After all, if God fulfilled the first 70 here (in Daniel 9:21-24) literally and harmoniously in an undivided manner, why would he not do the same with the second 70 (in Daniel 9:25-26)?

A literal straightforward reading of Daniel 9 would assume the 70th week to follow immediately after the 69th week. If it does not then it cannot properly be called the 70th week! It is illogical to insert a 2,000-year gap between the 69th and the 70th week, especially when no hint of a gap is found in the prophecy itself. What is more, there is no gap between the first 7 weeks and the following 62 weeks. Why insert one between the 69th and the 70th week?

 

[Al Touthentop]

I refer you to post #97 then. Clearly in that post I proved that those claiming no gaps in the 70 weeks are contradicting that claim by way of their interpretation of verse 27 in Daniel 9. Some of you might want to clear up that matter first, before deciding that some are wrong for concluding there is a gap in the 70 weeks, when you yourselves, via your interpretation of verse 27 are claiming the same thing.

No, you haven't 'proven' that anyone is contradicting anything.

There isn't a gap because God asserted that everything would happen in the determined time. If some of that is hard to accept because it doesn't seem to have occurred, then what is wrong is our assumption. This apparent contradiction (if it exists) can not be viewed as proof that God was wrong in some way.

 

[Al Touthentop]

The kingdom of heaven if for all those who are redeemed by the blood of the Lamb.

Which is everyone who obeys the gospel.

Revelation 1
1 John, to the seven churches which are in Asia:

Grace to you and peace from Him who is and who was and who is to come, and from the seven Spirits who are before His throne, 5 and from Jesus Christ, the faithful witness, the firstborn from the dead, and the ruler over the kings of the earth.

To Him who loved us and washed us from our sins in His own blood, 6 and has made us kings and priests to His God and Father, to Him be glory and dominion forever and ever. Amen.

7 Behold, He is coming with clouds, and every eye will see Him, even they who pierced Him. And all the tribes of the earth will mourn because of Him. Even so, Amen.

8 “I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End,” says the Lord, “who is and who was and who is to come, the Almighty.”

Vision of the Son of Man
9 I, John, both your brother and companion in the tribulation and kingdom and patience of Jesus Christ, was on the island that is called Patmos for the word of God and for the testimony of Jesus Christ. 10


The kingdom has been established. One kingdom which is not of this earth but rules over all the kingdoms of the earth, right now, not in the future.

 

[Douggg]

Douggg, it's not Babrean2. If it was him he would have been bombarding us with the events of the 7th trumpet by now. That seemed to be his ace in the hole that pretty much trumped everything, in his mind. Initially I thought sovereigngrace may have been another poster I used to encounter on another board in the past. I no longer think that anymore though. So it's only a coincidence that sovereigngrace reminds some of us of other posters we have encountered in that past, and not that he is actually any of them.

But speaking of Babrean2 then, where has he been at lately? Haven't noticed him posting for some time now. Hopefully he is ok.

Well, sovereigngrace has not denied it yet.

sovereigngrace is using some of the same phrasing as Bab2 used. Such as saying that to make my view work, I have to "ignore" other passages of the bible. While he himself ignores the very passages I posted about, and doesn't comment on those. And then goes off on the new covenant group's based teachings.

And has the same new covenant group's (the sect's name they choose from themselves) approach to eschatology, of misapplying soteriology as the basis for their arguments.

Which to me, boils down to lecturing other Christians here about salvation - when salvation (soteriology is a branch of theology that deals with doctrines of salvation) is something all Christians believe in and know the passages equally well.

 

[Douggg]

The kingdom has been established. One kingdom which is not of this earth but rules over all the kingdoms of the earth, right now, not in the future.

No, it does not because there is so much evil in the world, including at the government level in the nations.

 

[Douggg]

What is so important about "the creation of the State of Israel"? That nation is apostate and Christ-rejecting

To fulfill Isaiah 66:7-9, a nation born in a single day, which sets the stage for the Jews to come to Jesus in the great tribulation, and fulfill Matthew 23:39.

And to fulfill Ezekiel 38-39, Gog/Magog's invasion of Israel in the latter years and latter days. And Jesus's return in Ezekiel 39:21-29.

 

[DavidPT]

Every sensible theologian of all end-times views see these initial "seventy years" in Daniel 9 congruent and sequential, why would see the following any different?

Daniel 9:21-24: “while I was speaking in prayer, even the man Gabriel, whom I had seen in the vision at the beginning, being caused to fly swiftly, touched me about the time of the evening oblation. And he informed me, and talked with me, and said, O Daniel, I am now come forth to give thee skill and understanding. At the beginning of thy supplications the commandment came forth, and I am come to shew thee; for thou art greatly beloved: therefore understand the matter, and consider the vision. Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.”

The entire prophecy of Daniel 9:24-27 covers a period of "seventy weeks." There is no reason to understand it other than a period that applies to one complete, sequential block of time. After all, if God fulfilled the first 70 here (in Daniel 9:21-24) literally and harmoniously in an undivided manner, why would he not do the same with the second 70 (in Daniel 9:25-26)?

A literal straightforward reading of Daniel 9 would assume the 70th week to follow immediately after the 69th week. If it does not then it cannot properly be called the 70th week! It is illogical to insert a 2,000-year gap between the 69th and the 70th week, especially when no hint of a gap is found in the prophecy itself. What is more, there is no gap between the first 7 weeks and the following 62 weeks. Why insert one between the 69th and the 70th week?

Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.
And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself

Do you think any of this involves anything other than the first 69 weeks? If no, why would you treat verse 27 any different? Why would that not be involving nothing but events taking place during the 70th week?

One sure sign as to whether one is interpreting something correctly or not is, are they interpreting these things in a consistent manner. To interpret what I pasted in the first paragraph to only be involving events having to do with the first 69 weeks, then turn around and claim the verse having to do with the 70th week, that some of it is meaning during the 70th week and some of it isn't, that is hardly an example of interpreting something in a consistent manner.

The only reason anyone needs to interpret verse 27 as to be involving things that take place during the 70th week, and things that take place after the 70th week, is because to interpret it correctly means it destroys their position altogether.

 

[DavidPT]

Daniel 9:27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.


Here is a puzzle for some of you to try and solve. Clearly the 70th week involves an entire 7 years. So show in this verse the end of this 7 years if you disagree that the following shows that---and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

 

[sovereigngrace]

Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.
And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself

Do you think any of this involves anything other than the first 69 weeks? If no, why would you treat verse 27 any different? Why would that not be involving nothing but events taking place during the 70th week?

One sure sign as to whether one is interpreting something correctly or not is, are they interpreting these things in a consistent manner. To interpret what I pasted in the first paragraph to only be involving events having to do with the first 69 weeks, then turn around and claim the verse having to do with the 70th week, that some of it is meaning during the 70th week and some of it isn't, that is hardly an example of interpreting something in a consistent manner.

The only reason anyone needs to interpret verse 27 as to be involving things that take place during the 70th week, and things that take place after the 70th week, is because to interpret it correctly means it destroys their position altogether.

As we have seen, the 69 weeks (7 + 62) were to measure unto the commencement of Messiah’s earthly ministry. However, the passage makes it clear that immediately “after” the 69 weeks “shall Messiah be cut off.” That leaves us with only one other unfulfilled week – the 70th week. So, where in this final week is Messiah “cut off”? Is it at the beginning, in the middle, or at the end? Thankfully, there is no requirement for us to speculate, the answer is found in the very next verse. Daniel 9:27 declares, “in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease.”

The phrase “cut off” implies that Messiah would not die a normal natural death, he would rather be murdered. Isaiah alludes to the same event, also amazingly using the same language: "He was cut off out of the land of the living" (Isaiah 53:8).

Furthermore, the One whom this whole prophecy revolves round – Messiah – would “after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off.” Therefore, somewhere in the last week Christ would be cut off.

 

[Brian Mcnamee]

Which is everyone who obeys the gospel.

Revelation 1
1 John, to the seven churches which are in Asia:

Grace to you and peace from Him who is and who was and who is to come, and from the seven Spirits who are before His throne, 5 and from Jesus Christ, the faithful witness, the firstborn from the dead, and the ruler over the kings of the earth.

To Him who loved us and washed us from our sins in His own blood, 6 and has made us kings and priests to His God and Father, to Him be glory and dominion forever and ever. Amen.

7 Behold, He is coming with clouds, and every eye will see Him, even they who pierced Him. And all the tribes of the earth will mourn because of Him. Even so, Amen.

8 “I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End,” says the Lord, “who is and who was and who is to come, the Almighty.”

Vision of the Son of Man
9 I, John, both your brother and companion in the tribulation and kingdom and patience of Jesus Christ, was on the island that is called Patmos for the word of God and for the testimony of Jesus Christ. 10


The kingdom has been established. One kingdom which is not of this earth but rules over all the kingdoms of the earth, right now, not in the future.

If you think this world reflect Satan being bound and Jesus reign of everlasting righteousness being already established you got a odd view of what it will be like when Jesus is king. I showed that Satan had been delivered authority over the earth and showed 3 passages where the kingdom comes at the 2nd coming and life continues on earth with great before and after contrast. Your revelation quote is missing the part where they will reign with the LORD upon the earth which is echoed by the beheaded during the tribulation who also will reign with Him. The juncture of the end of the tribulation and the onset of the millennium is clear that the LORD comes 42 months after the beast has authority over all and that it comes when Jerusalem in in great turmoil.

 

[sovereigngrace]

Daniel 9:27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.


Here is a puzzle for some of you to try and solve. Clearly the 70th week involves an entire 7 years. So show in this verse the end of this 7 years if you disagree that the following shows that---and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

Daniel 9:26-27, “And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined. And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.”

This reading describes the final removal of the great outward centerpoint of the old abolished Judaic system, through the destruction of the Jewish religious temple. This part of the prophecy has no time element. It is not said to be part of the 70 weeks. There is nothing in the wording of this scriptural phrase that requires the destruction of Jerusalem/the temple to occur within the seventy weeks. It was simply the inevitable consequence of the Jews rejection of their Messiah. Moreover, this confirms the fact that the desolation inflicted would continue “until the consummation,” to the time when every last enemy is put down – “unto the end of the war.”

The physical temple would remain rubble until the ending of wars and the return of Christ at the consummation.

 

[Al Touthentop]

No, it does not because there is so much evil in the world, including at the government level in the nations.

You are calling John, an apostle of Christ, a liar if your view is true.

 

[Al Touthentop]

Daniel 9:27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.


Here is a puzzle for some of you to try and solve. Clearly the 70th week involves an entire 7 years. So show in this verse the end of this 7 years if you disagree that the following shows that---and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

He tells of this happening in the 70th week. How does that not match what God determined?

 

[Al Touthentop]

If you think this world reflect Satan being bound and Jesus reign of everlasting righteousness being already established you got a odd view of what it will be like when Jesus is king.

No, it is you who have the odd view because Jesus said his kingdom was not of this world. It is you who want to contradict what he said.

I showed that Satan had been delivered authority over the earth and showed 3 passages where the kingdom comes at the 2nd coming and life continues on earth with great before and after contrast. Your revelation quote is missing the part where they will reign with the LORD upon the earth which is echoed by the beheaded during the tribulation who also will reign with Him. The juncture of the end of the tribulation and the onset of the millennium is clear that the LORD comes 42 months after the beast has authority over all and that it comes when Jerusalem in in great turmoil.

But you want your passages to negate other passages in the bible. Instead of conforming your view to reconcile the different passages, you are claiming that they contradict one another. For shame.

 

[Al Touthentop]

To fulfill Isaiah 66:7-9, a nation born in a single day, which sets the stage for the Jews to come to Jesus in the great tribulation, and fulfill Matthew 23:39.

God's nation or kingdom was established on the day that Jesus was resurrected. See Acts 2. This was not in 1948 or the revised to the 1967 date (after premil timelines failed to produce their false prophecy).

And to fulfill Ezekiel 38-39, Gog/Magog's invasion of Israel in the latter years and latter days. And Jesus's return in Ezekiel 39:21-29.

Keep arguing with scripture.

 

[Christian Gedge]

Here is a puzzle for some of you to try and solve. Clearly the 70th week involves an entire 7 years. So show in this verse the end of this 7 years if you disagree that the following shows that---and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

The fall of Jerusalem and destruction of the temple did not take place within the actual seventy weeks; the prophet was simply providing information of the aftermath to the weeks in order to explain what the eventual outcome would be.

So in answer to your puzzle question, verse 27 has a span 40 years. It begins with Messiahs accomplishment, then describes something that 'overspread'. This 'overspreading abomination' was the blasphemous resumption of animal sacrifice.

No, the end of the 70th week is not explicitly mentioned in verse 27 but it is mentioned in verse 24. It is 'the anointing of the most holy.' This was completed over 7 years between AD 27 and AD 34. My notes on verse 27 below:

He (Messiah) shall confirm a covenant with many for one week; but in the middle of the week (3½ yrs after his revealing) shall bring an end to sacrifice and offering. (temple curtain torn) And on the wing of abominations (ongoing sacrifice an abomination) shall be one who makes desolate, (Titus destroys temple) even until the consummation, which is determined, is poured out on the desolate. (judgement on Jerusalem)​

 

[Brian Mcnamee]

No, it is you who have the odd view because Jesus said his kingdom was not of this world. It is you who want to contradict what he said.



But you want your passages to negate other passages in the bible. Instead of conforming your view to reconcile the different passages, you are claiming that they contradict one another. For shame.

trying to come to the proper understanding is the goal and your quote about the kingdom is here
36 Jesus answered, “My kingdom is not of this world. If My kingdom were of this world, My servants would fight, so that I should not be delivered to the Jews; but now My kingdom is not from here.”
37 Pilate therefore said to Him, “Are You a king then?”
Jesus answered, “You say rightly that I am a king. For this cause I was born, and for this cause I have come into the world, that I should bear witness to the truth. Everyone who is of the truth hears My voice.”

Note the but now my kingdom is not from here. Does that dismiss all the passages that speak of the kingdom being on earth? Acts 1 6 Therefore, when they had come together, they asked Him, saying, “Lord, will You at this time restore the kingdom to Israel?” 7 And He said to them, “It is not for you to know times or seasons which the Father has put in His own authority.
You have hung you hat that it is only Spiritual and I dispute that based on many verses that you have to dismiss to maintain it. In Jesus day he came as the suffering servant. He returns as king of king and LORD of LORDS. Will there be swords and spears in the New Jerusalem? No but they will beat those things into plowshare and pruning hooks and learn war no more. We certainly are not there yet. But the great sing is that the future view expects the 3rd Temple to come as the place for the man of sin to be revealed. Current events make this event very much in the realm of possibility as Israel is prepared and pushing for this very structure to come. This at the very least should have you considering that perhaps it is future.

 

[pasifika]

As we have seen, the 69 weeks (7 + 62) were to measure unto the commencement of Messiah’s earthly ministry. However, the passage makes it clear that immediately “after” the 69 weeks “shall Messiah be cut off.” That leaves us with only one other unfulfilled week – the 70th week. So, where in this final week is Messiah “cut off”? Is it at the beginning, in the middle, or at the end? Thankfully, there is no requirement for us to speculate, the answer is found in the very next verse. Daniel 9:27 declares, “in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease.”

The phrase “cut off” implies that Messiah would not die a normal natural death, he would rather be murdered. Isaiah alludes to the same event, also amazingly using the same language: "He was cut off out of the land of the living" (Isaiah 53:8).

Furthermore, the One whom this whole prophecy revolves round – Messiah – would “after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off.” Therefore, somewhere in the last week Christ would be cut off.

Hello sovereigngrace, sorry to jump in...but the event in Daniel 9:27 regarding the ceasing of sacrifice and offering and the Abomination in the middle of the 70th week as you said is referring to the Messiah...

Then this passage from Matthew 24:15-30 Jesus is speaking regarding the same event, and that would be happen less than 3.5 years (middle of the week) given that His ministry had already begin....

Jesus speaking....
Matthew 24:15-30..." So when you see standing in the holy place the abomination that causes desolation spoken of through the prophet Daniel- let the reader understand- then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains, Let no one on the housetop go down to take anything out of the house. Let no one in the field go back to get their cloak. How dreadful it will be in those days for pregnant women and nursing mothers. Pray that your flight will not be in winter or on the Sabbath day....

Verse 22 ...
If those days had not been cut short, no one will survive, but for the sake of the election those days will be shorten....

Verse 29...
Immediately after the distress of those days.." The sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light, the stars will fall from the sky and the heavenly bodies will be shaken. ...

Then will appear the sign of the Son of Man in heaven....

So, are those events happens at the time the Messiah was "cut off" in 3.5 years of His ministry or time of His death?

 

[sovereigngrace]

God's nation or kingdom was established on the day that Jesus was resurrected. See Acts 2. This was not in 1948 or the revised to the 1967 date (after premil timelines failed to produce their false prophecy).



Keep arguing with scripture.

If they reject Christ, Jesus says they are of their "father the devil." How can a Christ-hating nation be the kingdom of God? What Bible are you reading? They are under the wrath of God! They are antichrist! They are blind! They are the synagogue of Satan! Only those who are born again (both Jew and Gentile) are God's elect and true Israel!

The problem I see with dispensationalists is that they artificially make a special protected class of sinner – Israeli sinners – to support their extra-biblical teaching. They somehow make them elect sinner. They present them as a specially blessed sinner. They are somehow chosen of God because of an accident of birth, and God because of their ethnic race, when this has never been the case, either in the Old Testament or the New Testament. Salvation has always been by grace, not race.

The reality is there are only two camps of human beings – saved and lost, those who belong to God and those who belong to the devil. There is no third group. Premillennialism invents a third group who are too righteous to be destroyed when Jesus comes and to wicked to be caught up and glorified. This group is totally unknown to Scripture. They create this to justify their ‘Segregation Theology’.

John the Baptist warned the Jews that anyone that refuses to receive Jesus “the wrath of God abideth on him” (John 3:36). Jesus Himself splits mankind into two distinct camps (not three) in the parable of the wheat and the tares in Matthew 13:38-39: “The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked one; The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels.”

If one was to take an un-indoctrinated theological journey through the whole of Scripture from start to finish one would surely come to the definite conclusion that mankind is ultimately only divided into two types of people – those that personally know God and are consequently destined to everlasting bliss, and those that that are enemies of God and are therefore destined to everlasting punishment.

The wheat and tares are a symbolic collective inclusive representation of all mankind; the wheat representing “the children of the kingdom” (Matthew 13:38) – those saved by God’s wonderful grace; the tares representing “the children of the wicked one” (Matthew 13:38) – those outside of grace and of God. The righteous in this story are notably planted of God; the tares on the other hand are planted of the “enemy” – the devil. In fact, Matthew 13:39 states, “The enemy that sowed them is the devil.” This again corroborates the view that we are viewing the only two sole peoples that Scripture recognises. Plainly, if one isn’t of the Lord then there are of the devil. There are no hybrids.

If they do not embrace Christ they do not belong to God. They cannot be God’s chosen people if they reject Christ.

Jesus said in Luke 9:48, “whosoever shall receive me receiveth him that sent me.”

Jesus said in John 15:23, “He that hateth me hateth my Father also.”

2 John 1:9: “Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God.”

There can be no dispute here, without negating the Word of God.

Those who not born again and only have one nature and are described by Jesus in John 8:44 as being of their “father the devil.” Why? Because He told them the truth (by way of the Gospel) and they refused to believe Him (John 8:45-46). Because of their rejection of Him and His truth, He told them “ye are not of God” (John 8:47).

There are not two God’s, two Saviors and two ways of salvation. There is one way, and that comes through Christ and His finished work at Calvary.

Paul reinforces this truth in 2 Corinthians 4:4, demonstrating that all those who reject our Lord and “the light of the glorious gospel of Christ” are “blinded” by “the god of this world” (Satan). They are deceived.

John deems anyone who denies “Jesus is the Christ (or Messiah)” as a liar” and an “antichrist.” This includes every single Jew and Gentile who rebels against God’s only provision for sin. There are no special exceptions or imaginary 3rd group of humans, as Dispies pretend. In 1 John 3:10 he shows that mankind is divided into two camps. One is called “the children of God” and the other is called “the children of the devil.”

Finally, Jesus admonished the church in Smyrna in Revelation 2:9, “I know thy works, and tribulation, and poverty, (but thou art rich) and I know the blasphemy of them which say they are Jews, and are not, but are the synagogue of Satan.”

Those who reject Christ are indeed of their father the devil. You dismiss these crystal-clear censures from Jesus, arguing: "it's one specific synagogue he addressing, I think." Well, He actually condemns 2 churches here that had large Jewish communities living around them that were apostate. Judaism is apostate. It has rejected their Messiah and is therefore condemned and unregenerate.

The Lord similarly condemns the unbelieving natural Jew in Revelation 3:9 for imagining that he was real Jew. Whilst speaking to the church at Philadelphia, He said, “Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie; behold, I will make them to come and worship before thy feet, and to know that I have loved thee.”

In Revelation 2:9 and 3:9 Christ succinctly describes the Jews that rejects Him and what He achieved at the cross as those who “say they are Jews, and are not.” What he is saying is: they are not real Jews. The Philadelphia Church, which would have been overwhelmingly Gentile, was here promised that God would cause the unbelieving Jews to come and worship at their feet. The Lord again exposed the delusion that did beguile (and does beguile) the natural Christ-rejecting Jews “which say they are Jews” but “are not, but do lie.” The true Jew today is a believer in Yahweh that is spiritually circumcised in heart, not merely physically circumcised.

 

[sovereigngrace]

Hello sovereigngrace, sorry to jump in...but the event in Daniel 9:27 regarding the ceasing of sacrifice and offering and the Abomination in the middle of the 70th week as you said is referring to the Messiah...

Then this passage from Matthew 24:15-30 Jesus is speaking regarding the same event, and that would be happen less than 3.5 years (middle of the week) given that His ministry had already begin....

Jesus speaking....
Matthew 24:15-30..." So when you see standing in the holy place the abomination that causes desolation spoken of through the prophet Daniel- let the reader understand- then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains, Let no one on the housetop go down to take anything out of the house. Let no one in the field go back to get their cloak. How dreadful it will be in those days for pregnant women and nursing mothers. Pray that your flight will not be in winter or on the Sabbath day....

Verse 22 ...
If those days had not been cut short, no one will survive, but for the sake of the election those days will be shorten....

Verse 29...
Immediately after the distress of those days.." The sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light, the stars will fall from the sky and the heavenly bodies will be shaken. ...

Then will appear the sign of the Son of Man in heaven....

So, are those events happens at the time the Messiah was "cut off" in 3.5 years of His ministry or time of His death?

That was the consequences of their rejection of Christ. That was nowhere said to occur within the 70 weeks. The destruction of their temple/city and the dispersion of the Jews beyond Israel occurred as a consequence of their rejection of Christ and their stubborn continuation with the temple sacrifices.