Daniel's 70th week

[Douggg]

Douggg, he can answer for himself of course, if he so chooses, yet IMO, this is not Babrean2. For one, if it was him, where are all of these Youtube videos he usually uses as arguments for his position?

Be thankful for that. I am pretty sure it is Babrean2, recycled as soverigngrace.

 

[DavidPT]

The 6 clauses of Daniel 9:27 were fulfilled over the entire 70th week. The cross was 7th April AD 30 and the weeks ended when the Holy Spirit was poured out on the Gentiles. (approx nisan AD 34 by my calculation)

When do you assume the transgression was finished? As in, within how many years? The text indicates that it is finished once the 70 weeks, 490 years, that are determined, are fully accomplished---that's how it reads to me.

 

[sovereigngrace]

If everything in Daniel 9:24 is fulfilled before an entire 70 weeks are completed, why even need an entire 70 weeks then?

Take the following unrelated example.

Jeremiah 25:12 And it shall come to pass, when seventy years are accomplished, that I will punish the king of Babylon, and that nation, saith the LORD, for their iniquity, and the land of the Chaldeans, and will make it perpetual desolations.

Would anyone conclude---that I will punish the king of Babylon, and that nation, saith the LORD, for their iniquity, and the land of the Chaldeans, and will make it perpetual desolations---that that is meaning before an entire 70 years are accomplished first?

And if no, why would this same one conclude, in Daniel 9:27, that the transgression can be finished before the entire 70 weeks are even entirely accomplished first?

There is nothing described in Daniel 9 that necessarily needs to be fulfilled in the second 3 ½ years of the week. The 6 things predicted to be fulfilled in Christ obviously occurred in the first 3 ½ years of the week, mainly at the midpoint of it.

Saying all that, the last 3 ½ yrs saw the empowerment of the New Testament Church with a baptism of fire at Pentecost in order to enlighten the darkened heathen nations. In obedience to Christ instruction: the Gospel message went out to Israel first in the last 3 ½ years of the 70 weeks (as it had through the preceding ages), and bore significant fruit. This last period ends with the stoning of Stephen and the subsequent persecution of the Church by Saul. Jesus then confronts Saul on the road to Damascus (Acts 9), and censures him for persecuting the Church. Saul is supernaturally converted, and changes his name to Paul. This happens in 34 AD. Through his conversion, the 70th week closes. Saul was then used as that notable tool to head-up the great commission to the Gentile world. Faithful Israel would then take the Gospel the blinded nations.

 

[Douggg]

Thank you, there are two events happens at the half of the seven year period in Daniel 9:27...

1. Sacrifice and offering ceased
2. Abomination that causes desolation is committed...

Same events in Daniel 11:31-32

Prefiguring the end times event of an image to be placed in the temple.

 

[Christian Gedge]

When do you assume the transgression was finished? As in, within how many years? The text indicates that it is finished once the 70 weeks, 490 years, that are determined, are fully accomplished---that's how it reads to me.

Transgression was finished when the law was abolished and superseded by the law of Christ. It happened with his atonement. - Passover AD 30 - middle of the 70th week.

 

[DavidPT]

Transgression was finished when the law was abolished and superseded by the law of Christ. It happened with his atonement. - Passover AD 30

At that point though, assuming no gaps in the 70 weeks, I don't see that adding up to the entire 70 weeks that are determined. So why does the text say 70 weeks are determined, to finish the transgression, if it didn't really literally mean what it plainly says?

 

[Christian Gedge]

The 6th clause, "anoint the most holy" took 7 years. Christs anointing 1 Nisan AD 27 to the outpouring of the Holy Spirit on the Gentiles AD 34.

 

[DavidPT]

This happens in 34 AD. And with the conversion of Saul the persecutor, to be Paul the Apostle, the 70th week closes.

Speaking of that since that should have been a big time noteworthy event at the time, the final hour of the 70 weeks putting this 490 year period of time to an end once and for all, show where any writer in the NT ever claimed that the 70 weeks were entirely fulfilled. But if you can't, you are only assuming they ended in 34 AD, and not actually proving they did instead.

 

[Douggg]

Transgression was finished when the law was abolished and superseded by the law of Christ. It happened with his atonement. - Passover AD 30 - middle of the 70th week.

You are mixing soteriology with eschatology. If you guys would ever read Ezekiel 39:21-29, realizing it is Jesus Himself speaking in the text, it would change your whole eschatology view.

 

[jgr]

Speaking of that since that should have been a big time noteworthy event at the time, the final hour of the 70 weeks putting this 490 year period of time to an end once and for all, show where any writer in the NT ever claimed that the 70 weeks were entirely fulfilled. But if you can't, you are only assuming they ended in 34 AD, and not actually proving they did instead.

Luke 18
31 Then he took unto him the twelve, and said unto them, Behold, we go up to Jerusalem, and all things that are written by the prophets concerning the Son of man shall be accomplished.

Luke 24
44 And he said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me.

 

[DavidPT]

The 6th clause, "anoint the most holy" took 7 years. Christs anointing 1 Nisan AD 27 to the outpouring of the Holy Spirit on the Gentiles AD 34.

Let's not forget though, Daniel 9:27 involves the 70th week, and one thing that has to be fulfilled within the 70th week is this----and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

At the end of that, the 70 weeks that were determined, now they are finally fully accomplished, period. I do not see any of this I just pasted from Daniel 9:27 squaring with anything you just submitted though.

 

[Christian Gedge]

Speaking of that since that should have been a big time noteworthy event at the time, the final hour of the 70 weeks putting this 490 year period of time to an end once and for all, show where any writer in the NT ever claimed that the 70 weeks were entirely fulfilled. But if you can't, you are only assuming they ended in 34 AD, and not actually proving they did instead.

The 'weeks' together with the 70th week are alluded to in New Testament scriptures. But the proof requires your realisation that the weeks were none other than the sabbatical year cycles. You also need to find the Jubilee. Here is a video:

 

[DavidPT]

L

Luke 24
44 And he said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me.

As to that, I can't imagine there not also being in the prophets, concerning Jesus, things related to His 2nd advent as well, thus also needing fulfilled. So I doubt He was only meaning things connected with His first advent, and nothing connected with His 2nd advent.

Daniel 7:22 Until the Ancient of days came, and judgment was given to the saints of the most High; and the time came that the saints possessed the kingdom.

Above is an example of something in the propherts concerning Him, which possibly can't get fulfilled until after He returns again first. The verse preceding this one proves that the timing is in the end of this age and not some 2000 years ago instead.

Daniel 7:21 I beheld, and the same horn made war with the saints, and prevailed against them;

Verse 21 is clearly meaning during the 42 month reign of the beast in Revelation 13.

You being mainly Preterist in your thinking, if I recall correctly, are obiously going to disagree with the timing of these events. You might even disagree, for all I know, that Daniel 7:21 is even meaning during the 42 month reign of the beast in Revelation 13.

 

[Christian Gedge]

If you listened to my video you'll have noticed one of the New Testament references to the 'times' - Daniels 70 weeks.

"He made known to us the mystery of his will according to his good pleasure, which he purposed in Christ, to be put into effect when the times reach their fulfillment."
(Ephesian 1:9-10 NIV)

 

[Bible Highlighter]

My first post—thank you for having me participate. I just listened to a well known reformed evangelical teacher in South Carolina preach on Daniel 9.24-27 regarding the 70 weeks. He dogmatically says that the numerics (7, 62, 69, 70) are representational and not specific to real years or time periods—I disagree with that severe interpretation.

He also stated emphatically that the entire set of verses relate to Jesus and that all mentions of the word "he" should be interpreted as Jesus. He doesnt give reasons for that but so be it. For the most part I think this is correct. He also mentions that that the "desolations" verses in Daniel refer only to AD 70 and uses Matt 24 to support this. However i dont believe he is a preterist. Unfortunately in his sermon he dogmatically forgot to mention the second half of verse 27 which says: "and for half of the week he shall cause sacrifice and offering to cease; and upon the wing of abominations shall come one who makes desolate, until the decreed end is poured out on the desolator."

Now i dont see how you can make the "he" in verse 27 become Jesus. Can anyone piece together a rational argument that justifies his position? thanks

If you are interested, you may enjoy my lengthy End Times Chronology thread here:

Pre-Trib Only - My New End Times Chronology

 

[Arnold_Fishman]

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I visit a news site that has marginal advertisers which sometimes need to click the ad off and send reports to Google as inappropriate, but it was not nearly the same caliper as what was fed to me on CF.

 

[Ricky M]

I visit a news site that has marginal advertisers which sometimes need to click the ad off and send reports to Google as inappropriate, but it was not nearly the same caliper as what was fed to me on CF.

I am 99% sure that CF is not choosing the ads shown to you.

How do advertisers show me custom ads?

 

[sovereigngrace]

Speaking of that since that should have been a big time noteworthy event at the time, the final hour of the 70 weeks putting this 490 year period of time to an end once and for all, show where any writer in the NT ever claimed that the 70 weeks were entirely fulfilled. But if you can't, you are only assuming they ended in 34 AD, and not actually proving they did instead.

History teaches us that! After Christ's resurrection/ascent, there were 3 1/2 years where the Church was shown to be protected before the persecution began after the 70th week (Revelation 12).

Daniel 9:2 says: “In the first year of his reign I Daniel understood by books the number of the years, whereof the word of the LORD came to Jeremiah the prophet, that he would accomplish seventy years in the desolations of Jerusalem. And I set my face unto the Lord God, to seek by prayer and supplication, with fasting, and sackcloth, and ashes.”

Are these seventy years linear, congruent and sequential?

 

[sovereigngrace]

You are mixing soteriology with eschatology. If you guys would ever read Ezekiel 39:21-29, realizing it is Jesus Himself speaking in the text, it would change your whole eschatology view.

You cannot divorce the two. They are inextricably tied together.

 

[jgr]

As to that, I can't imagine there not also being in the prophets, concerning Jesus, things related to His 2nd advent as well, thus also needing fulfilled. So I doubt He was only meaning things connected with His first advent, and nothing connected with His 2nd advent.

Daniel 7:22 Until the Ancient of days came, and judgment was given to the saints of the most High; and the time came that the saints possessed the kingdom.

Above is an example of something in the propherts concerning Him, which possibly can't get fulfilled until after He returns again first. The verse preceding this one proves that the timing is in the end of this age and not some 2000 years ago instead.

Daniel 7:21 I beheld, and the same horn made war with the saints, and prevailed against them;

Verse 21 is clearly meaning during the 42 month reign of the beast in Revelation 13.

You being mainly Preterist in your thinking, if I recall correctly, are obiously going to disagree with the timing of these events. You might even disagree, for all I know, that Daniel 7:21 is even meaning during the 42 month reign of the beast in Revelation 13.

Twice, in both Luke 18:31 and Luke 24:44, our Lord uses the expression "all things".

Was He mistaken?