Daniel 9:27

[Notrash]

Clemensee; The covt of moses ended in 70 AD. The return from captivity in Babylon was return from the captivity prophecied as a curse of the law. One can imply that Daniel only addressed the house of Judah, but in his prayer he includes the Israelites as those who departed the covt. The curse had incurred on them earlier through the assyrians.

But the main point is that Daniel was living in and responding to the need to call the blessing and curse to mind before their being restored from captivity. Yes its true that only judah were in captivity, but every detail need not be represented for the intent of the passage to be clear as confirmed by Daniel himself.

Again, Deut 30:5-19 being the new covt of Christ new law (1John 3:23,24) written on the heart is confirmed by Paul in Rom 10:6-9. Thus all deut 30 was fulfilled from babylon through 33 AD.

DEUT 32 is thus 70 AD.

This applies to Douggs post on what covt is being confirmed in dan 9.

No, the end times were referring to these long ago fallen skies. ..The only 'end times' is the end of 'end times" thinking and gloom & doom theology.

 

[BABerean2]

It is sad that a covenant confirmed by Christ has been corrupted and turned into a treaty broken by the antichrist, and the antichrist is not even mentioned in chapter 9.
Jesus said it himself in Matthew 26:28. How much clearer could it be?


Mat 26:28 For this is my blood of the new testament(covenant), which is shed for many for the remission of sins.

We also lose the precise nature of the timing, when we accept the antichrist interpretation.
It should be one of the strongest pieces of evidence for the validity of our faith.
Christ was born on time. He was anointed on time in the Jordan River. And he was sacrificed on time.
All according to a prophecy made hundreds of years before he was born, proclaiming Him as the Lamb of God.
If the angel Gabriel did not mention a gap, I will have to accept that there is no gap.
He was cut off after the 69th week, which is part of the 70th week.
His ministry to the Jews lasted one half week.
After his sacrifice, the Gospel was still taken to the Jews for another half week through his Apostles, which had been sent the Holy Spirit to help them in the work.
The 70th week ended about the time Stephen was stoned.
Daniel's people had been given 70 weeks.
It is finished.

The following commentary was the understanding at the time the Pilgrims came to America.
It comes from the 1599 Geneva Bible.


Daniel 9:27


And he (a) shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to (b) cease, (c) and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make [it] desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

(a) By the preaching of the Gospel he affirmed his promise, first to the Jews, and after to the Gentiles.

(b) Christ accomplished this by his death and resurrection.

(c) Meaning that Jerusalem and the sanctuary would be utterly destroyed because of their rebellion against God, and their idolatry: or as some read, that the plague will be so great, that they will all be astonished at them.


Who Confirmed The Covenant?

http://christianmediaresearch.com/node/1023

..........

 

[Straightshot]

Are you trying to establish that the 2520 days is 2520 years?


The 1 day for a year theory is to change the method of calculating the time lapse of the 70 weeks of years after the first 69 weeks of years in order to make predictions about Israel's return to the land and the Muslim controversy, but the scriptures are consistent with no changing

The objective is to some how make dating predictions while forcing the last 2000 years into the prophecy .... this should never be done

William Miller of the SDA did it and his predictions were wrong

Those that make the attempt ignore the breach of silence between the end of the 69th week .... and the beginning of 70th week

It is not possible to date the beginning of the 70th week which is not revealed in scripture

All sorts of attempts have been made by adding unrelated methods to the process

 

[clemenslee]

Are you trying to establish that the 2520 days is 2520 years?


The 1 day for a year theory is to change the method of calculating the time lapse of the 70 weeks of years after the first 69 weeks of years in order to make predictions about Israel's return to the land and the Muslim controversy, but the scriptures are consistent with no changing

The objective is to some how make dating predictions while forcing the last 2000 years into the prophecy .... this should never be done

William Miller of the SDA did it and his predictions were wrong

Those that make the attempt ignore the breach of silence between the end of the 69th week .... and the beginning of 70th week

It is not possible to date the beginning of the 70th week which is not revealed in scripture

All sorts of attempts have been made by adding unrelated methods to the process

Absolutely 2520 years. I believe Christ himself used the day for year principle in Luke, in previous postings I've gave other references.

To make it very clear I'm no Millerite and try to claim or make predictions. Just as I'm no British Israelite just because I agree that the tribes can be traced through out the world. I don't think you are saying this is what I am, but all I'm saying is don't throw the baby out with the bath water. I think we can agree to disagree, but I would just like to add one other thing that in my opinion also supports what I believe to be true, i know you will most likely disagree as well as many others even ones that don't share your views, but hey at least you see where I'm coming from. And please realize I used to hold on to the same views that you hold, I did for 15yrs. I just think that with that view at least for me leaves over 2000 yrs of history to our present day and quite literally Gods hand in it, completely silent, things of salvation aside. And we wonder why non-christians say where has your God been this entire time and scoff that he is real and that he is not going to return. Anyway, here it is. Its a reply to whats in Italics below. I chose it because of the direct correlation of time, times, and half that many use in support that the 70th week has to 7 years. Whats below is not to point and say your wrong and I'm right but just to give a different perspective.


The treading down of Jerusalem during the "times" (Greek: kairos: G2540) of the Gentiles in Luke 21:24 refers to what will occur during certain years in our future, the same "times" (kairos: G2540), or years, referred to in Revelation 12:14b, during which the Gentiles will tread down Jerusalem as part of the Antichrist's future, literal 3.5-year worldwide reign (Revelation 11:2b, Revelation 13:5-18), during the 2nd half of the future tribulation of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 and Matthew 24.

While I don't think this is the probably the proper place to debate this topic, I do think what you stated raises some points I believe needs a honest look. I agree "Times" in Luke 21:24 is Kairos, but it gives no set definition for how long, it just means set-time, opportune time, season. Now when you look at Daniel 7, and Daniel 12, especially in Daniel 12, he himself did not understand what the time, times and half meant. If Daniel understood what time, times and half meant he would have been able to understand that the time, times and half was 3.5 years, assuming that Daniel understood the 70th week to be 7 years but he didn't and asked the angle the meaning of it, but no he was told to seal it up, till the time of the end. Daniel is written in two different languages (I'm no linguistic expert by any means lol) Aramaic and Hebrew. In Daniel 7 is in Aramaic and Time is Iddan - set-time, moment. , Daniel 12 is Moed in hebrew - appointed time or set time. So why do we assume that time used here automatically refers to a year, none of those words give it that definition, but can we find a definition of "time", I believe we can. I find it quite interesting you referenced 2 peter 3:8 in a previous post, in 2 Peter 3:8, a day with Lord is as a thousand years. Day is hemera in greek- it can mean day, moment, period, season and time. The translators chose the word day because it was commonly used during that time period. No commentary I'v read agrees that it should be day, but they all agree that it is a Time in length as a 1000 years, look it up. Some even say a unspecified amount of time is a thousand years. So, i'm sure you see were I'm going, time=1000yrs. Now time and times, and dividing of time is quite interesting in the way its written. Its called a idiom, which is a peculiar phrase related to a certain language or culture. Example would be I feel under the the weather, if you know english you would know that I'm saying I'm sick, but to somebody who doesn't know english very well, they would give you the crazy eye LOL. Its the same as the following Hebrew idioms: Job 33:14- For God speaketh once, yea twice yet man perceive it not., Job 40:5 - Once I have spoken, but I will not answer: yeah twice, but I will proceed no further, Psalms 62:11 - God has spoken once, twice I have heard this, that power belongeth to God. As you can see they folllow the same idiomatic style, so you would not have 1+2+.5=3.5, you would have 1+1+.5=2.5, "times" in Daniel 7, and 12 is only one more not 2 more. and if time=1000, then we would have 1000+1000+500=2500 years.

I Daniel 7 its the 1st year of Belshazzar reign in 552bc. Daniel is given the visions of the 4 Gentile beasts/kingdoms that would occupy the Holy Land Israel and the middle east. And also its mainly concerning the Jews, and in verse 25 we come to the first time, times, and half or 2500 years. In 1948 Israel became a nation for the first time in 2500 years. 1948-2500=552BC. you might think that is just coincidence, but I think not. for 2500 years the holy land was ruled by Gentile kingdoms, and overnight after WW2 they became a nation no longer under Gentile Kingdoms. I believe history proves Gods word. Lets look at the second time, times and half. Daniel 12 is now concerning the Holy city and capital Jerusalem, and also the scattering of the power of the Holy people the JEWS. Daniel 12 was in the third year of Cyrus. 533BC. In 1967 the Jews recalaimed Jerusalem as their Capital and holy city. and now is no longer under Gentile rule! That was the first time in 2500 yrs. 1967-2500=533 BC. Again I believe history proves Gods word. We cant argue about what has taken place in 1948, and 1967 as fulfilled prophecy. They are no longer under Gentile Governmental Rule. The Jews, and their power were scattered through out the nations for 2500 yrs.

So to conclude for me at least, i'm thoroughly convinced that's why Daniel was sealed till the time of the Gentiles was over. So that we in our time can see it in our history as marker to let us know that we are in the time of the end and that our Lord is knocking at the Door in his Return! We might not agree, but i would like everybody to keep searching and looking for his return. For Blessed are they that keep watch, and read and listen and search out about his coming AMEN!

 

[Straightshot]

He is going to intervene .... no doubt .... when He is ready

But He has not revealed the dating to anyone, His intervention will be with no signage or warning .... and He will intervene when the fullness of the Gentiles has been added to His true ecclesia

And His waiting for this [2 Peter 3:8-9]

The comment about the fact that the Lord's time in eternity is different than earth dwellers "1 day as a 1000 years" is just for contrast, and not to be used for prophetic time lapse

The believer has a desire for the Lord to intervene soon, and so want to mark the time .... and when this is done with no results, much damage can be done to one's faith

The truth is, no one knows the time and when unbelievers like the scoffers in 2 Peter 3 make their case, the believer needs to explain the fact that there is nothing in prophetic scripture recorded over the last 2000 years because the Lord has delayed His next visitation and why He has done this

... but not to fill in speculations to string them on .... this has been and still is a habit among the fundamental professing church .... and much damage has been done in many ways related to the validity of Christian belief

And at the same time there are those who have taken advantage over the last 2000 years to build in their proprietary man made religions that claim events upon the earth over the period to substantiate their dogmas .... but there is nothing in the visions of the prophets for a matching

 

[vinsight4u]

/

 

[Straightshot]

"The time of determined desolations - falls in after the 69th week
ends and before the 70th week begins."


I believe that the desolations noted are part of the 70th week, and not in the breach

These desolations will be caused by the other prince and his people ..... the Muslims of the Middle East .... against Israel and other nations

Which desolations would you place in the breach over the last 2000 years that you can find both in the historical record and the prophetic visions that are the same?

 

[clemenslee]

He is going to intervene .... no doubt .... when He is ready

But He has not revealed the dating to anyone, His intervention will be with no signage or warning .... and He will intervene when the fullness of the Gentiles has been added to His true ecclesia

And His waiting for this [2 Peter 3:8-9]

The comment about the fact that the Lord's time in eternity is different than earth dwellers "1 day as a 1000 years" is just for contrast, and not to be used for prophetic time lapse

The believer has a desire for the Lord to intervene soon, and so want to mark the time .... and when this is done with no results, much damage can be done to one's faith

The truth is, no one knows the time and when unbelievers like the scoffers in 2 Peter 3 make their case, the believer needs to explain the fact that there is nothing in prophetic scripture recorded over the last 2000 years because the Lord has delayed His next visitation and why He has done this

... but not to fill in speculations to string them on .... this has been and still is a habit among the fundamental professing church .... and much damage has been done in many ways related to the validity of Christian belief

And at the same time there are those who have taken advantage over the last 2000 years to build in their proprietary man made religions that claim events upon the earth over the period to substantiate their dogmas .... but there is nothing in the visions of the prophets for a matching

Sure, Of that day and hour knows no man, but Christ never said that we can't know when its even at the door.


Matthew 24: But know this, that if the goodman of the house had known in what watch the thief would come, he would have watched, and would not have suffered his house to be broken up. 44Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh.45Who then is a faithful and wise servant, whom his lord hath made ruler over his household, to give them meat in due season? 46Blessed is that servant, whom his lord when he cometh shall find so doing. 47Verily I say unto you, That he shall make him ruler over all his goods. 48But and if that evil servant shall say in his heart, My lord delayeth his coming; 49And shall begin to smite his fellowservants, and to eat and drink with the drunken; 50The lord of that servant shall come in a day when he looketh not for him, and in an hour that he is not aware of, 51And shall cut him asunder, and appoint him his portion with the hypocrites: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

V45: Giving What Meat?, V46-Find so doing what?, V50 - Why would a person be cut asunder?. We can't do any of these things unless God gave us something to look at, to give as meat so that others will not be cut assunder if we are in a period of unspecified time, and there is nothing to look for to give us insight when our Lord is even at the door. Because as you say God is silent on the subject. Oh wait if God deals with us here in our time in our daily lives everyday, how can he be silent with his dealings for the last 2000 years of history? Seems to me if thats the case we are left with our thumbs up our butt LOL. and we all are going to be cut asunder.

 

[Douggg]

So to conclude for me at least, i'm thoroughly convinced that's why Daniel was sealed till the time of the Gentiles was over. So that we in our time can see it in our history as marker to let us know that we are in the time of the end and that our Lord is knocking at the Door in his Return! We might not agree, but i would like everybody to keep searching and looking for his return. For Blessed are they that keep watch, and read and listen and search out about his coming AMEN!

The time of the gentiles is over when Israel has embraced Jesus as her messiah. Romans 11:25.


The 2520 days is 2520 years theory you created doesn't have any bearing on anything. What counts is what is stated in the bible. That's what the end times timeline is based on. Your theory is way out in left field.

Next time put together a post that is readable. By that, I mean break it up into paragraphs 2 or 3 sentences long. No-one wants to read it as it is - you have wasted your time.

 

[Straightshot]

"Sure, Of that day and hour knows no man, but Christ never said that we can't know when its even at the door


The passage of scripture that you refer to is directed to a returning remnant part of Israel that has returned to the land for experiencing the time of Jacob's trouble .... and not a message for today's "church"

The date of the beginning of this setting is not known, and may not come for years, or it could begin before this day is over

.... but the behavior of date setting should never be exercised by anyone .... because the Lord has said that no one can know .... His secret

One should not contrive methods for this objective, especially when the contrivance is of an extra-biblical nature

His "appearing" is the thing that He is revealing with His "at the door" prediction to Israel .... and this reality will come at the ending of the 70th week decreed .... not the beginning of the same

When Israel sees "all of these things coming to pass taken together [Luke 21:20-36], then will they know that He is at the very door .... but not before the 70th week begins .... this time frame is still pending as we speak

So no one can know this dating that will trigger the 70th week .... the Lord will intervene as a thief .... no signs, no warning

 

[clemenslee]

The time of the gentiles is over when Israel has embraced Jesus as her messiah. Romans 11:25.


The 2520 days is 2520 years theory you created doesn't have any bearing on anything. What counts is what is stated in the bible. That's what the end times timeline is based on. Your theory is way out in left field.

Next time put together a post that is readable. By that, I mean break it up into paragraphs 2 or 3 sentences long. No-one wants to read it as it is - you have wasted your time.

Wasted my time? You read it, you didn't have to, but you did. I said in that post there will be many who don't agree. What I posted is not anymore in left field that you posted on #28 saying that time, times, and half having no relevance to prophecy. Anybody who studies revelations is not going to come to revelation 11 and dismiss the 42 month and 1260 as irrelevant, thats like saying God gave John those values for no reason other than to fill empty space.

 

[clemenslee]

"Sure, Of that day and hour knows no man, but Christ never said that we can't know when its even at the door


The passage of scripture that you refer to is directed to a returning remnant part of Israel that has returned to the land for experiencing the time of Jacob's trouble .... and not a message for today's "church"

The date of the beginning of this setting is not known, and may not come for years, or it could begin before this day is over

.... but the behavior of date setting should never be exercised by anyone .... because the Lord has said that no one can know .... His secret

One should not contrive methods for this objective, especially when the contrivance is of an extra-biblical nature

His "appearing" is the thing that He is revealing with His "at the door" prediction to Israel .... and this reality will come at the ending of the 70th week decreed .... not the beginning of the same

When Israel sees "all of these things coming to pass taken together [Luke 21:20-36], then will they know that He is at the very door .... but not before the 70th week begins .... this time frame is still pending as we speak

So no one can know this dating that will trigger the 70th week .... the Lord will intervene as a thief .... no signs, no warning

OK, A serious question because I don't, but do you hold onto a rapture view, even if this not directed to the church?

 

[Douggg]

Wasted my time? You read it, you didn't have to, but you did. I said in that post there will be many who don't agree. What I posted is not anymore in left field that you posted on #28 saying that time, times, and half having no relevance to prophecy. Anybody who studies revelations is not going to come to revelation 11 and dismiss the 42 month and 1260 as irrelevant, thats like saying God gave John those values for no reason other than to fill empty space.

No, I didn't read it. As soon as I saw the post, I glanced through and saw how convoluted it was, I just went to the last summary paragraph.

It is 42 months in Revelation 11:2 and 42 months in Revelation 13:5. It is 1260 days in Revelation 11:3 and 12:6. Because the 1260 days is the testimony time of the two witnesses, and those two wintesses lay dead in the streets of Jerusalem 3 1/2 days - means it is impossible to change days into years.

I never said that the times, times and half times have no relevancy to prophecy. That is an outright lie.

Here is what I wrote in post #28...

Revelation 12: after the 1260 days of two witnesses, there is the war in heaven, the first step in a process of the kingdoms of this world becoming the Kingdoms of God and of his Christ. Satan finds himself cast down to earth having but a short time left (12:12) - which is the time, times, and half times, before Jesus returns at which time Satan is bound and cast into the bottomless pit.

 

[Gideon]

It is not possible to date the beginning of the 70th week which is not revealed in scripture

27th March AD 27.

 

[Straightshot]

The Lord has stated that know one can know the dating .... but you do?

I will tell you why you do not know .... you are looking at the wrong time frame .... 70 AD was not the time of the end that the Lord and His Bible prophets present .... far from it

 

[Straightshot]

"OK, A serious question because I don't, but do you hold onto a rapture view, even if this not directed to the church?"


A serious answer .... the Lord's coming hour [time] of trial and judgment upon an unbelieving world of humans will begin with no warning or signs .... and so you cannot know the dating .... because He has said so ..... He has not revealed the dating of the beginning of this visitation and no man can figure it out [a time when you think not .... cannot know]

When the infilling of the Gentiles has been added, it will come [Matthew 24:36-39]

The calling for His true ecclesia alive at the time is another matter altogether

Do I think this will take place just before? .... not question about it .... this action He intends to execute

 

[BABerean2]

The Lord has stated that know one can know the dating .... but you do?

I will tell you why you do not know .... you are looking at the wrong time frame .... 70 AD was not the time of the end that the Lord and His Bible prophets present .... far from it

Mat_21:43 Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.

.

 

[Straightshot]

Mat_21:43 Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.


The Lord is speaking to an unbelieving Israel that has rejected Him .... but this condition of Israel's blindness is going to change [Romans 11:25-36]

 

[StephanieSomer]

The prince who shall come follows the destruction of the city and sanctuary (70 AD), so the prince is not Jesus.

The covenant in Daniel 9 that will be confirmed for 7 years by the prince who shall come is the Mt. Sinai covenant.

There is a requirement in Deuteronomy 31:10-13 that Moses made for all future generations to confirm the Mt. Sinai covenant, that God gave the promised land to the Children of Israel forever, be done every 7 years (in the text), by doing a commemorative reading of Moses' orders to go in and possess the promised land.

The little horn coming out of Europe, arriving in Israel, right after Gog/Magog, is that prince who shall come, and will be perceived by the Jews as their messiah, and anointed the King of Israel - thus becoming the Antichrist.

He is the one who will oversee the commemorative reading on the temple mount, thereby confirming the Mt. Sinai covenant for 7 years. Not presently done because the Muslims control the temple mount.

The passage in Deuteronomy which you reference is one I was not aware of. Quite interesting. It agrees exactly with the timeline of Christ's return that I have long held. For, if this IS the covenant being referenced, and I believe your argument is solid enough to support that, then not only does the 7 years begin with the Feast of Tabernacles, it also ends with the Feast of Tabernacles. I have long held that the Lord will return during the Feast of Tabernacles, based on the prophecy of Zechariah which announces that all nations during the Millennium shall send an emissary to Jerusalem each year to honor the King at the Feast of Tabernacles. Any nation which fails to do so shall receive no rain for the following year. The only logical reason for the nations to commemorate the Feast of Tabernacles would be to celebrate the King's rule. Similar to the US holiday of 4th of July, the world's nations shall commemorate the rule of the new King. So, it would appear from Zechariah that the King's rule begins at the Feast of Tabernacles. One other significant prophetic mirror which appears in the Feasts is the command for all males to present themselves to the Lord in Jerusalem at three specific Feasts: Passover, Pentecost, and the Feast of Tabernacles. Of all Church history, three specific events stand out as pre-eminent before the rest: the Crucifixion, the coming of the Holy Spirit, and the return of Christ. The first two coincided with two of the Feasts that God had already designated as one of the most important. The remaining one shall coincide with the last of the three.

 

[Gideon]

The Lord has stated that know one can know the dating .... but you do?

I will tell you why you do not know .... you are looking at the wrong time frame .... 70 AD was not the time of the end that the Lord and His Bible prophets present .... far from it

The Lord has stated that know one can know the date of his RETURN - not his first coming. As for the 'weeks', they always began on the 1st day of the 1st month. So, the 70th week began on the 1st Nisan AD27 and ended on the 30th Adar AD34. These dates equates to our 27th March AD27, and 9th March AD34.

Actually, the gospels do record the start date of the 70th week in John.