Daniel 7 helps prove when Revelation 20:4 is meaning

[RandyPNW]

Wouldn't it make better sense to interpret that to mean the beast is in the pit at the time? After all, in order to ascend from the pit eventually, this requires that the beast has to be in the pit first. Which should also mean that when the beast 'was', this indicates that the beast wasn't in the pit yet. By making Nero the beast logically means Nero will ascend out of the pit eventually. I find that totally unreasonable myself, as if Nero could somehow be relevant in the end of this age, and that when Christ returns it is a resurrected Nero that is cast into the LOF in Revelation 19:20.

We have to keep in mind that the beast that ascends out of the pit, this has to be the same beast that got put into the pit. Otherwise, how does one explain how the beast acends out of the pit it was never in? That doesn't make sense, right?

Yea, I was just throwing that out there--it's not what I really believe myself. I don't think Nero is the Beast head that "is not." My own thought was that this was a projection into the future that the ancient form of the Roman Empire would come to a time when it "is not."

But that doesn't satisfy me either. I thought maybe the Antichrist himself would be mortally wounded. But this indicates he was, but "is not." I really can't say I understand this one verse at all:

Rev 17.11 The beast who once was, and now is not, is an eighth king. He belongs to the seven and is going to his destruction.

I feel like I'm missing something that should be more obvious. I've probably just listened to too many popular ideas for too long. I'm open to suggestions...

Maybe it's just saying that the Beast theocracy existed in the form of these 4 pagan kingdoms, but that the Antichrist himself "is not," because he hasn't come as an individual yet? I don't know!

There's also the possibility that the reference is indirectly to Satan whose "head" was wounded at the Cross. His Kingdom existed in the 4 Kingdoms of Dan 7, but Jesus condemned paganism to death. So even though the Roman Empire still existed, the individual "Beast" did not yet exist, ie the individual Antichrist.

And yet he will rise as an "8th," because the previous 7 Kingdoms had been defeated, preventing his rise. His so-called "resurrection" is a mystery in light of the fatal wound he received at the Cross.

This also has been unsatisfactory for me, though it fits the passage and sounds reasonable. It would've been much easier, though, for the Holy Spirit to spell this out. When He doesn't, it indicates there is a danger of Roman retaliation against John, in my view.

 

[5thKingdom]

Wouldn't it make better sense to interpret that to mean the beast is in the pit at the time? After all, in order to ascend from the pit eventually, this requires that the beast has to be in the pit first. Which should also mean that when the beast 'was', this indicates that the beast wasn't in the pit yet.

The "Mystery of Babylon" is actually very simple to understand... within the Biblical CONTEXT of Daniel's Four Kingdoms.
The Apostle John saw a 7-Headed Beast that "was, and is not, and shall ascend out of the Bottomless Pit, and go into Perdition".
His prophecy was showing the state of the "Kingdom of God" while it was still within the (3rd) Christian "Kingdom of Heaven".
In this passage, John does not reveal anything about the "Season and Time" on earth after the Revelation Beasts are destroyed.
John describes "Mystery of Babylon" at the time of the vision... before Satan is loosened to "ascend out of the Bottomless Pit".


Rev:17:8 The Beast that thou saw was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the Bottomless Pit, and go into Perdition:
and they that dwell on the earth [during the Great tribulation] shall wonder, whose name were not written
in the Book of Life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the Beast that was, and is not, [at that time]
and yet is [when the Revelations Beast arises].


The Beast (Kingdom) that John saw "was" because Satan's spiritual Kingdom "was" ruling before being "bound" at the Cross.
The Beast "is not" because Satan's Kingdom had been "bound" in the Bottomless Pit during the time John was seeing the vision.
The same Beast (the same Kingdom) will "ascend out of the Bottomless Pit" at the sound of the 5th Trumpet (also the "1st Woe").
The same Kingdom of Satan (the same 7-Headed Beast) will "go into Perdition" at the end of the "2nd Woe" as Satan's Kingdom
(represented by the Revelation Beast) is "cast alive" into the "Burning Flame" [Dan 7:12] and/or into the "Lake-of-Fire" [Rev 19:20].


The Beast that "was" represents the Kingdom of Satan during Daniel's (1st) Pre-Flood Kingdom and (2nd) Jewish Kingdom.
The Beast that "is not" represents the Kingdom of Satan during Daniel's (3rd) Christian Kingdom - while Satan was "bound"
in the Bottomless Pit. The Beast "ascending" out of the Bottomless Pit represents the Kingdom of Satan during the "1st Woe".
And the Beast that "goes into Perdition" is the Kingdom of Satan as it's destroyed after the "2nd Woe", when the Fourth Beast,
the "Kingdom of Babylon", is Judged by God and then "cast alive" into eternal torment of the "Burning Flame" or "Lake-of-Fire".



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[5thKingdom]

I thought maybe the Antichrist himself would be mortally wounded.

Rev 13:12
And he [the SECOND Revelation Beast] exerciseth all the power of the FIRST beast before him,
and causeth the earth and them which dwell therein to worship the FIRST beast, WHOSE DEADLY WOUND WAS HEALED.


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[5thKingdom]

As I said, Pretrib bases its position on faith that is rather subjective, and tied to parables. Postrib has faith that is centered on explicit doctrine, as we read the pertinent passages.

How can anyone teach a PostTrib "harvest" when the Bible is clear (in MANY passages) that the "Final Harvest"
happens BEFORE the end of the 2nd Woe (6th Trumpet)... JUST BEFORE the Lord destroys the Fourth Beast...
also shown as the Revelation Beast and the Great Tribulation "Kingdom of Heaven" [Mat 25:1]


(1) In Matthew 25 destruction of the Fourth Kingdom of "Babylon the Great" is shown [v.10] when the "Door was Shut".
The "Final Harvest" of the “Wise Virgins” is shown [v.10] as they are taken into the "Marriage" saying;
"they that were ready went in with Him to the Marriage: and the Door was Shut".


(2) In Revelation 18 the destruction of the Fourth Kingdom is shown [v.2] as "Babylon the Great is fallen, is fallen".
The "Final Harvest" of “Wise Virgins”, immediately before the destruction of Babylon, is shown [v.4] as the Lord Commands
the Last Saints to "Come out of her, My people". And the Last Saints are told [v.20] to "rejoice"
over the destruction of Babylon for "God hath avenged you on her".


(3) In Revelation 19 the destruction of Babylon is shown [v.20] as the False Prophet and Revelations Beast are
"cast alive" into the eternal "Lake-of-Fire". The "Final Harvest" immediately before destruction of the "great harlot"
[v.2] is shown as the Saints are commanded [v.17] to "gather yourselves together unto the SUPPER of the Great God”.
Then [v.9] the "Final Harvest" is shown when the Saints are "called unto the MARRIAGE SUPPER of the Lamb".
Again we see, [v.2] when God destroys the Kingdom of "Babylon" He also "hath avenged the blood of His servants".
This FULFILLS a promise God made to earlier Saints – in completion of the Fifth Seal [Rev 6:9-11]. This is important!


(4) In Revelation 11 the destruction of Babylon is shown [v.13] as a "great earthquake", and the "Final Harvest"
is shown [v.12] as the Last Saints are commanded to "Come up hither. And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud".
Again the "Final Harvest" is shown occurring immediately before destruction of the Fourth Beast. However, this time,
the Bible reveals [v.14] the TIMING of this event – it is just before the end of the "Second Woe"... that is important.


(5) In Daniel 7 the destruction of the Fourth Beast is shown [v.11] when "the Beast was slain, and his body destroyed,
and given to the Burning Flame". The "Final Harvest" of Saints is shown [v.18] as "the Saints of the Most High shall
take the Kingdom, and possess the Kingdom forever, even for ever and ever". Again, the "Final Harvest" is shown
[v.22] when "Judgment was given to the Saints of the Most High; and the time came that the Saints possessed the
Kingdom". In Daniel 7 the Bible actually reveals the NAME of this period on earth after the "Final Harvest",
after destruction of the Fourth Beast. The Bible [Dan 7:11-12] specifically names this period the "Season and Time".
Here we see the “Time-of-the-End” is also shown as the “Season and Time” after the Fourth Beast is destroyed.4


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[Wayne Gabler]

I tend to follow a different path. Daniel:7 can be shown in a way that the time, times and 1/2 a time is the 3 1/2 days the two witness are in the grave. Da:11:32 (know their God) is day1 of their 1260-day ministry, the last verse in Da:11 is the 7 vials being poured out an hour after the two witnesses are resurrected