Daniel 12

[5thKingdom]

It is real simple the fact Daniel 7:11 is involving what Revelation 19:20 is involving, and that Daniel 7:12 is meaning after what Daniel 7:11 and Revelation 19:20 are involving, and that Daniel 7:11 and Revelation 19:20 can't get fulfilled unless Christ has bodily returned first.

But THAT is your problem... you ADD to the text.


The Bible never teaches that "Christ has bodily returned first"... before the "Season and Time"
of Daniel 7 or Rev 19. You cannot show it does because the Bible does not teach that.
You are confused.


Instead of ranting about what you do not understand...
try to focus on this one false doctrine you are promoting.


Show me WHERE in Scripture it teaches that "Christ has bodily returned"... before the "Season and Time"
of Daniel 7 or Rev 19. You cannot show it does because the Bible does not teach that.

Here's an idea. Prove your interpretation involving this is not a private interpretation by submitting the names of some Amils who agree with you that Revelation 19:20 can get fulfilled without Christ having to bodily return first.

Here is a better idea.
YOU need to offer SCRIPTURE that teaches "Christ having to bodily return first... before the "Season and Time".
It is the BIBLE that establishes TRUTH... not the testimony of men.
This is Theology 101... why is it "news" to you/


You make me laugh.
I have known about the "Season and Time" for over 10 years.


YOU did not know it existed until I TAUGHT YOU.
Now you want to teach me?
LOL

And that agree with you that Daniel 7:12 is meaning after Revelation 19:20 is fulfilled. Tribsigns doesn't count though, in the event he is an Amil you name, the fact both of you appear to know one another and that both of you appear to have a connection with mountainretreat and this Tony person. I know all about mountainretreat. I have been knowing about that site for many years now.

You again talk about things you know nothing about...
you do that often.


I have NO CONNECTION with MountainRetreat or Tony...
and you have NO REASON to say that.
You assume to much again.


/

 

[Trivalee]

Wouldn't the logic be, the fact the text says that the wicked will never understand, and that if only very few understand, that then makes the rest the wicked, because it is only the wicked that don't understand? How can one who is not wise, still understand when it says only the wise shall understand, and that anyone who doesn't understand, they are of the wicked? But if it is not very many that are wise, thus understand, doesn't that mean the majority are of the wicked, otherwise they would understand, not not understand?

If you were to put a number on it, the fact there are billions of ppl on this planet presently, how many out of those billions of ppl do you assume would be among the wise that shall understand? A hundred? a thousand? Ten thousand? A hundred thousand? A billion? Several billion?

BTW, apparently, presently we only have one wise saint that alleges to understand, meaning 5thKingdom, the fact I have yet to encounter other saints that understand all these things the exact same way he does. Most of us look at that as a red flag, that it implies private interpretation since no other saints on the planet are coming to some of these same conclusions.

The pertinent question is, what is it that "the wise should understand?" If you ask me, it is simply God's love for us and his redemptive plan that has unfolded in stages since the days of Adam and increased since the first advent of Christ to culminate in his return in glory. The wise of heart are those that have aligned with God and through the scriptures, have the discernment to understand and relate what is happening in their generation as part of God's plan for man.

Jesus pointed painted a clear picture of the confusion that will ensue in the last days during the Olivet discourse. Again the wise are those that will take his teachings to heart and as I said earlier, be able to recognise the end-time events as prophesied, so are not deceived. The wicked on the other hand, are those carried away by the attractions of the world and subsequently buy into whatever narrative the world govt will spin as an explanation of the strange events of those days.

I don't know why you're selling yourself short by saying you do not understand: Dan 12:10 is not a mystery to faithful believers. I'm sure that if the AoD is set up tomorrow you will recognise it, or if the AC or the False prophet are to appear on the world stage tomorrow, by their actions you will be able to identify them for who they truly are. And that knowledge places you among the wise!

 

[Trivalee]

Referring to any Christian as a 'saint', is wrong as only God can look into the heart. His true Saints will be revealed when Jesus Returns.

Saints in the NT denote the remnant church, ie the vessels of gold and silver (2 Tim 2:20). On what basis do you deny that the remnant church (true believers) are saints? If they will only be revealed as saints when the Lord returns, then Apostle Paul and the other Apostles must have been mistaken by referring to believers several times as saints in Rom 1:7, Eph 5:3, Acts 9:13, Rev 13:7, and so on.

 

[keras]

Saints in the NT denote the remnant church, ie the vessels of gold and silver (2 Tim 2:20). On what basis do you deny that the remnant church (true believers) are saints? If they will only be revealed as saints when the Lord returns, then Apostle Paul and the other Apostles must have been mistaken by referring to believers several times as saints in Rom 1:7, Eph 5:3, Acts 9:13, Rev 13:7, and so on.

Right; we will know who are the true Saints by their presence in the holy Land during the end times.
Proved by Daniel 7:25 and Revelation 13:5-8, Gods holy people are there when the Anti-Christ conquers them. Half will go to a place of safety and half must remain. Revelation 12:14 & 17

 

[Trivalee]

Right; we will know who are the true Saints by their presence in the holy Land during the end times.
Proved by Daniel 7:25 and Revelation 13:5-8, Gods holy people are there when the Anti-Christ conquers them. Half will go to a place of safety and half must remain. Revelation 12:14 & 17

No doubt, only God knows those genuinely saved and referred to as saints. So when scripture calls the church, saints, it obviously refers to heaven-bound believers.

 

[keras]

No doubt, only God knows those genuinely saved and referred to as saints. So when scripture calls the church, saints, it obviously refers to heaven-bound believers.

The real, proven 'saints', will be those people who will be taken to a place of safety on earth for the 1260 days of the Great Trib.
It will be them who the angels will gather to Jesus when He Returns. Matthew 24:31

 

[Trivalee]

The real, proven 'saints', will be those people who will be taken to a place of safety on earth for the 1260 days of the Great Trib.
It will be them who the angels will gather to Jesus when He Returns. Matthew 24:31

Matthew 24:31 is about the rapture of the saints.

 

[keras]

Matthew 24:31 is about the rapture of the saints.

The word used in Matthew 24:31, is - gathering.
At the glorious Return, the Lord sands His angels to gather His people, those who remain; as 1 Thess 4:17 says.
It will be a transportation from where they are, most in that place of safety, Revelation 12:14, to where Jesus is. That will be Jerusalem.

 

[Trivalee]

The word used in Matthew 24:31, is - gathering.
At the glorious Return, the Lord sands His angels to gather His people, those who remain; as 1 Thess 4:17 says.
It will be a transportation from where they are, most in that place of safety, Revelation 12:14, to where Jesus is. That will be Jerusalem.

Matt 24:31 refers to the rapture, see 1 Cor 15:51-52 and 1 Thess 4:17. You contradict yourself with your argument.

• • The scriptures say the woman (likely believing Jews) will go to a place of safety and remain there for 1,260 days or 3.5 years (Rev 12:6 & 14), and it is concurrent with the reign of the antichrist.
  • The texts did not say that angels will take them there.
  • Another factor that invalidates your case is that those who fled to safety will do so BEFORE the Lord returns, not WHEN he returns. Your wild claim that "At the glorious return, the Lord sends his angels to gather his people to transport them to a place of safety" is no more than a conjecture that does not relate to what the scriptures say.
  • According to Rev 12:6 & 14, these people were never taken to the air but will flee to Petra by road. If they ever get to the air, it must be by aircraft rather than be whisked off by angels. At Petra, they will be succoured by the Lord until he returns to earth.

 

[keras]

The scriptures say the woman (likely believing Jews) will go to a place of safety and remain there for 1,260 days or 3.5 years (Rev 12:6 & 14), and it is concurrent with the reign of the antichrist.

Those people taken to the place of safety, are the faithful Christians, Jews and from every tribe, race, nation and language.
The apostate Jews are dealt with at the Sixth Seal event' Ezekiel 21:1-7

The texts did not say that angels will take them there.

The texts say the angels will take them to where Jesus will be. Initially in the clouds, then to Jerusalem.

Another factor that invalidates your case is that those who fled to safety will do so BEFORE the Lord returns, not WHEN he returns. Your wild claim that "At the glorious return, the Lord sends his angels to gather his people to transport them to a place of safety" is no more than a conjecture that does not relate to what the scriptures say.

You mis-read my posts. Those faithful Christians will live in that place of safety for the final 1260 days before Jesus Returns.

According to Rev 12:6 & 14, these people were never taken to the air but will flee to Petra by road. If they ever get to the air, it must be by aircraft rather than be whisked off by angels. At Petra, they will be succoured by the Lord until he returns to earth.

According to 1 Thess 4:17, those people gathered when Jesus Returns, DO travel thru the atmosphere. As Philip did. Acts 8:39
Petra cannot be the place of safety. It is too close, actually within artillery shot of Jerusalem. That idea is a Hal Lindsay guess.

Your replies so far show a sad lack of understanding of what really is prophesied to happen.

 

[anetazo]

You need the holy spirit to help understand the bible. God placed spirit of stupor on many people. First Corinthians 210. But God hath revealed them unto us by His spirit ; for the spirit searches all things , yea, the deep things of God. 2:11. For what man knows the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? Even so the things of God knows no man, but the spirit of God. Spirtual man understanding is God's meat, the mystery of God. The carnal minded people can't understand spirtual things. I already told you. Those with spirit of slumber, can't understand. They think they do, but God put blinders on them. 2:12. Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit of which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God. 2:13. Which things also we speak, not in the words which mans wisdom teach. But which the Holy Ghost teach; comparing spirtual things with spirtual. Can you understand. The wicked can't understand the mystery of God. Jesus closed their eyes. They have spirit of stupor. The wise men are God's Elect. The Election are predestined, chosen before foundation of the world. The majority of people are not getting the holy spirit. Romans 11:7. What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeks for; BUT THE ELECTION HATH OBTAINED IT, AND THE REST WERE BLINDED. The election have holy spirit and many people have spirit of slumber for their protection. During the millennium, the spirituality dead will understand God's word. The spirtual blinders come off during millennium. Those who are carnal minded, believe the rapture or distort the truth of what happened in garden of eden. Daniel chapter 12, the wicked will not understand mystery of God, I documented this in Corinthians chapter 2. The saints are God's Elect. They have holy spirit. You need holy spirit to understand mystery of God. The fourth beast is the one world political system of revelation chapter 13. It receives deadly wound near future. At the 6th trump, satan as antichrist heals deadly wound. By establishing world peace. It turns to a religious one world system. Its 5 month period, revelation 9:5 to document. The mystery of God is sealed to the wicked. Psalm 25:14. The secret of the Lord is with them that fear Him; and He will shew them His covenant. The secret, is secret counsel. By the holy spirit. 64:2. Hide me from the secret counsel of the wicked; from the insurrection of the workers of iniquity. The kenites, offspring of satan, are operate from banking, trade and commerce. And religion, politics. They're working overtime to bring in the one world religious system. Thier daddy is satan. The fake shepherds are servants of evil spirits, doing satan's bidding. Teaching rapture and tradition of men, false doctrine. People are in Bondage, both economics and religion. The fourth beast is coming near future. Those who don't have the seal of God, will worship antichrist. Most people have spirit of stupor. It Proverbs 20:18. Every purpose is established by counsel: and with good advice make war. The holy spirit guides the Election to victory. Election counsel is Gods word. And the holy spirit. Majority will fall into satan's trap at the 6th trump. They don't have seal of God. I'll stop here. I did my job as servant of God.

 

[Trivalee]

Those people taken to the place of safety, are the faithful Christians, Jews and from every tribe, race, nation and language.
The apostate Jews are dealt with at the Sixth Seal event' Ezekiel 21:1-7

The texts say the angels will take them to where Jesus will be. Initially in the clouds, then to Jerusalem.

You mis-read my posts. Those faithful Christians will live in that place of safety for the final 1260 days before Jesus Returns.

According to 1 Thess 4:17, those people gathered when Jesus Returns, DO travel thru the atmosphere. As Philip did. Acts 8:39
Petra cannot be the place of safety. It is too close, actually within artillery shot of Jerusalem. That idea is a Hal Lindsay guess.

Your replies so far show a sad lack of understanding of what really is prophesied to happen.

Ezek 21:1-7 deals with the fate of Israel when they were carried as captives to Babylon. You flounce from one debate to another claiming to be a teacher when in truth you don't know what you are talking about half of the time. How you can posit that Ezek 21 is in the future, beats imagination!

If the place of safety is not Petra, would you mind telling us where? Or were they suspended in the clouds for 1260 days? Your tendency for wild conjecture passed as truth is unparalleled; what has Philip in Acts 8:39 got to do with it? To say one lacks understanding of scriptures is like the kettle calling the pot black.

 

[keras]

Ezek 21:1-7 deals with the fate of Israel when they were carried as captives to Babylon. You flounce from one debate to another claiming to be a teacher when in truth you don't know what you are talking about half of the time. How you can posit that Ezek 21 is in the future, beats imagination!

The prophecy about the Babylonian conquest is in Ezekiel 21:18-24. The Prophecies in Ezekiel 21"1-17, obviously do not relayte to that past eveny and have never yet been fulfilled.

Contradicting your beliefs, does not mean that I am wrong.

If the place of safety is not Petra, would you mind telling us where?

We are not told where, just a place where the 'beast' cannot get to. It must be way further that Petra, which is simply too small anyway.

what has Philip in Acts 8:39 got to do with it?

Philip demonstrated how the Lord can transport people from one earthly location to another.
Both 1 Thess 4:17 and Matthew 24:31, refer to this gathering thru the atmosphere, to where Jesus will be: in Jerusalem. NOT a 'rapture'.
.

 

[Trivalee]

The prophecy about the Babylonian conquest is in Ezekiel 21:18-24. The Prophecies in Ezekiel 21"1-17, obviously do not relayte to that past eveny and have never yet been fulfilled.

Contradicting your beliefs, does not mean that I am wrong.

We are not told where, just a place where the 'beast' cannot get to. It must be way further that Petra, which is simply too small anyway.

Philip demonstrated how the Lord can transport people from one earthly location to another.
Both 1 Thess 4:17 and Matthew 24:31, refer to this gathering thru the atmosphere, to where Jesus will be: in Jerusalem. NOT a 'rapture'.
.

Ezek 21 has been fulfilled. Pray for discernment to really understand what you read. In Rev 12:6 &14 we are repeatedly told that the woman fled into the wilderness yet you claim we are not told where.

 

[keras]

Ezek 21 has been fulfilled

In no way has Ezekiel's Prophecy ever been fulfilled:

Ezekiel 21:1-7 This is the Word of the Lord: Face toward Jerusalem and prophesy against the Land of Israel. Say to that Land: I am against you, I shall draw My sword and make away with both righteous and wicked among you. I intend to destroy both good and evil people, from the Negev, [Southern Israel] Northward, all will know that it is the Lord who has acted. All courage will fail on that Day, it is coming, it will surely take place.
This will be the Day of the Lord’s vengeance and wrath. There has not been any previous event, as described, in Israel. Ezekiel 20:47-48, Isaiah 22:14, Jeremiah 21:14.

‘The righteous and wicked [Jews] alike will be killed’. Jeremiah 10:18, Amos 2:4-5

It will surely happen: the next prophesied event, which will clear the entire Middle East, thus enabling His people, true Christian Israelites, to gather in and live in all of the holy Land. Psalms 83, Revelation 6:12-17, Isaiah 2:12-22, Joel 2:1-11.

Ezekiel 21:8-13 Prophesy: A sword is sharpened and polished, ready to kill. Should we respect the sceptre of Judah? No, the sword despises it. The sword of destruction is ready for the hand of the slaughterer. Cry aloud and lament, for testing will surely come upon My people and on all Israel’s leaders who are given over to be slain with My people. Mourn and wail, for what if the sceptre of Judah does not continue?

The people currently occupying all of the Holy Land will be killed or displaced. Lament, for My people [Judah] too, will be slain. Jeremiah 12:14, Ezekiel 16:35-41, Isaiah 22:14

Ezekiel 21:14-17 Prophesy: Strike your hands together, swing the sword three times. It is the instrument of slaughter, whirling around. Their courage will fail and many will stumble and fall. Lightning flashes left and right – blocking all escape routes, terrible will be the slaughter. Then, I too, will strike My hands together, My wrath will subside. I, the Lord have spoken.

“Swing the sword three times” Refers to the judgement and dispersion of Judah. 1/ Babylon. 2/ Rome. 3/ still to come. Zechariah 13:7-9, Jeremiah 19:11, Matthew 21:41, Luke 19:27. Is the third ‘swing of the sword’.
The Holocaust? No, because that was just the worst of many pogroms and massacres of the Jews since 70-135 AD.

Ezekiel 21:18-24 This is a fulfilled prophecy of how God led Babylon to attack and destroy Jerusalem. The House of Judah were taken into captivity in 586 BCE, because of their sins. 2 Kings 23:27.

Ezekiel 21:28-32 Prophesy to the Ammonites.......you will be fuel for the fire, remembered no more. Still living in the place of their origin “. ‘= Modern Jordan,
Their beliefs are a lie and for their insults against Israel’. Deuteronomy 32:41-43, Jeremiah 12:14, Amos 1:13-15.
You will die and no memory of you will be left.
Ref: REB, NIV. Verses abridged

we are repeatedly told that the woman fled into the wilderness yet you claim we are not told where.

Wilderness, in the Bible is anywhere other than the holy Land.
The place of safety must be very far from Jerusalem.