Daniel 12-time of the end

[Barraco]

In rev it says that there will two earths, and also two heavens. Could the second judgement be that there will be a heaven on earth, and that then those souls will be judged according to how thay had lived?

he makes a good point. i noticed that the first resurrection was when Jesus locked Satan up. then, 1000 years pass before Satan is loosed and decieves people. perhaps the second resurrection are for these and all those not redeemed by Christ (a.k.a. godless and unrepentant)

 

[Justme]

HI Barraco,

he makes a good point. i noticed that the first resurrection was when Jesus locked Satan up. then, 1000 years pass before Satan is loosed and decieves people. perhaps the second resurrection are for these and all those not redeemed by Christ (a.k.a. godless and unrepentant)

More questions than answers maybe.

Shouldn't the Godless and unrepentant have been killed by the wrath of God, Rev 14:15-?

This would definately mean Satan is not the beast.

Justme

 

[Blissman]

Rev 21:8

But the cowardly, the unbelieving, the vile, the murderers, the sexually immoral, those who practice magic arts, the idolaters and all liars—their place will be in the fiery lake of burning sulfur. This is the second death."


Does Satin indwell within the beast (after a period of time?). If that were so, the beast would, for a period of time, live before it became as the devil.

So what is the beast?

 

[brad_religion]

Daniel was told to “seal up” the words of his prophecy (Daniel 12:4, 9) because they were for many days (Daniel 10:14), until the time of the end (Daniel 12:4,9). Daniel was written about 500 years before Revelation was. So, 500 years means “many days” and wasn’t yet the “time of the end”, but Revelation 22:10 says “And he saith unto me, Seal not the sayings of the prophecy of this book: for the time is at hand.” Why would Daniel be told to seal up his words for the “time of the end” yet John was told to NOT seal up his words because the “time was at hand”? Because the time of the end was at hand when Revelation was written. Daniel 12:1-10 clearly speaks about the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 AD (vs 7), which also proves the time of the end was prior to 70 AD.

 

[Justme]

Hi Brad,

The time of the end is indicated as first century by the preaching of the gospel matching with the verse from Matthew 24. Hebrews 9 states the same..
But now he has appeared once for all at the end of the ages to do away with sin by the sacrifice of himself.

Your point about sealing up the words is valid,...... makes sense.

HOwever, I have wondered if this verse in Daniel 12

5 Then I, Daniel, looked, and there before me stood two others, one on this bank of the river and one on the opposite bank. 6 One of them said to the man clothed in linen, who was above the waters of the river, "How long will it be before these astonishing things are fulfilled?"

7 The man clothed in linen, who was above the waters of the river, lifted his right hand and his left hand toward heaven, and I heard him swear by him who lives forever, saying, "It will be for a time, times and half a time. When the power of the holy people has been finally broken, all these things will be completed."


Is this John the Baptist and Jesus by the river when Jesus was baptised. His ministry was about that long.


You are saying that the time of the end is not the same as the end of time?

Justme

 

[brad_religion]

Hi Brad,

The time of the end is indicated as first century by the preaching of the gospel matching with the verse from Matthew 24. Hebrews 9 states the same..
But now he has appeared once for all at the end of the ages to do away with sin by the sacrifice of himself.

Your point about sealing up the words is valid,...... makes sense.

HOwever, I have wondered if this verse in Daniel 12

5 Then I, Daniel, looked, and there before me stood two others, one on this bank of the river and one on the opposite bank. 6 One of them said to the man clothed in linen, who was above the waters of the river, "How long will it be before these astonishing things are fulfilled?"

7 The man clothed in linen, who was above the waters of the river, lifted his right hand and his left hand toward heaven, and I heard him swear by him who lives forever, saying, "It will be for a time, times and half a time. When the power of the holy people has been finally broken, all these things will be completed."


Is this John the Baptist and Jesus by the river when Jesus was baptised. His ministry was about that long.


You are saying that the time of the end is not the same as the end of time?

Justme

There is no end of time. In fact, in the new heaven and earth, the tree of life produces fruit every month (Revelation 22:2), and Isaiah says the child will die at 100 in Isaiah 65:20, which shows time will go on.

If you compare Daniel 12:7 with Revelation 11:2, it explains the "time, times and half". After 42 months/time, times, and half, the power of the holy people was completely shattered after the war. The only event that lasted 3.5 years and ended with the power of the holy people being shattered were the events of 70 AD.

 

[Justme]

Hi Brad,

Yes, I don't reject that at all, I was just wondering if there is any reason this could be looking at the ministry. The Holy people were shattered there too in a way if we consider the law being replaced with the grace.

I also think the destruction fits better, but it never hurts to dig into stuff.

If you're talking about the heavenly realm I agree there is no end of time. If you mean planet earth I am different than most. I see an end to planet earth and everything on it. A Mars situation I guess.

Justme

 

[StAnselm]

You are saying that the time of the end is not the same as the end of time?

Yeah, I would think they're different - but Daniel 12 definitely says "time of the end", which probably refers to a period.

I agree with brad - it's very siginificant that Daniel was to shut up and seal the words, because they were for a distant time, but John wasn't allowed to, because they were concerning things that must shortly take place.

We cannot get the idea of 3 1/2 from Daniel 12, however, because "times" cannot refer to the number 2.

 

[Justme]

Hi,

We cannot get the idea of 3 1/2 from Daniel 12, however, because "times" cannot refer to the number 2.

How cum?

Justme

 

[StAnselm]

Yeah, I should have explained myself straight off. In English we have singular and plural, but in Hebrew they have singular, plural and dual. That is, "one, two, many" - you use the dual form when you are talking about two of something.

Well, the word here is in the plural, and not the dual. Hence, it cannot refer to the number 2.

 

[Justme]

Hi StAnselm,

Among all of the things I never knew, there is another thing.

So what would be an educated guess at what it does mean?

Justme

 

[mysteryman]

is this justme from worship together.

 

[Justme]

Hi Mysterman,

No, I'm sorry, I am not .

Justme

 

[StAnselm]

Among all of the things I never knew, there is another thing.

Don't worry, I only learned it quite recently.

So what would be an educated guess at what it does mean?

I really don't know. And I'm not sure anyone does, really. Though lots of people claim to, of course. The best answer I can give is really too vague to be of much use and that's "a very long time"...

 

[mysteryman]

speculators, time of the end. where wah the great white throne judgment and who where the xeven angels and where was the Beast with 7 heads and 10 hotns and the thief in the night all come and gone andthe promise and the 1000 years, and the white horse rider. __________ come on fellas if any or all this would have gone by or happpened you would have some written history to support the Book. Not just some speculation about that Jerusalem event or the Nero birds, they've all flown away much like tall the theories ablut Jesus 's return by the Jehovah's and others____________________ First off how did Jesus establish his presence 2000 years ago and what prompted that._________any takers? ________-and as Jesus gave a clear indication by what characteristics he was to return, where in all of his prophecies do you see him, in his return, and all the conditions met in that 1st century, the preterists, garble._____?__________you don't just have misssing words, but every chapter and all what was said.

 

[Justme]

Hi St Anselm,

I really don't know. And I'm not sure anyone does, really. Though lots of people claim to, of course. The best answer I can give is really too vague to be of much use and that's "a very long time"...

I've wondered if this is only referring to the length of time of Jesus' ministry on earth. Then I've wondered if it means 'decade'? But yea, I think you're right, nobody knows for sure.

Justme

 

[brad_religion]

speculators, time of the end. where wah the great white throne judgment and who where the xeven angels and where was the Beast with 7 heads and 10 hotns and the thief in the night all come and gone andthe promise and the 1000 years, and the white horse rider. __________ come on fellas if any or all this would have gone by or happpened you would have some written history to support the Book. Not just some speculation about that Jerusalem event or the Nero birds, they've all flown away much like tall the theories ablut Jesus 's return by the Jehovah's and others____________________ First off how did Jesus establish his presence 2000 years ago and what prompted that._________any takers? ________-and as Jesus gave a clear indication by what characteristics he was to return, where in all of his prophecies do you see him, in his return, and all the conditions met in that 1st century, the preterists, garble._____?__________you don't just have misssing words, but every chapter and all what was said.

Iff yooh can tipe in englicsh, eye mite bee abel two auntser yer kwestion.

 

[mysteryman]

you are but peculators, time of the end. and end times, what's the big deal,? Do you have to always split hairs over every word? __________________For you justme , basically sound like a preterist. So, where was the great white throne judgment and who where the seven angels and where was the Beast with 7 heads and 10 horns and the thief in the night? All come and gone, and the promise and the 1000 years, and the white horse rider. __________ Come on fellas if any or all this would have gone by or happpened, you would have some written history to support the Book. Not just some speculation about that Jerusalem event or the Nero birds, they've all flown away much like all the theories ablut Jesus 's return by the Jehovah's and others____________________ First off how did Jesus establish his presence 2000 years ago and what prompted that._________any takers? ________-and as Jesus gave a clear indication by what characteristics he was to return, where in all of his prophecies do you see him, in his return, and all the conditions met in that 1st century. simply preterists, garble. that's all. As a preterist, you don't just have misssing words, but chapters of the book. For theat matter the entire Book of Revelation becasue though words indicated the vcoming soon in some of Pauls writings, it also attracked followers to use those kind of words.___________ many came to Jesus throgh Paul but as you read by the Letters there was much difficulty, kind of like growing pains.____________ However their was evideance that certain groups kept the strict adherence to the teachings of Pual, Essenes, Nissenes, and such but the vast majority of so called break away christiand fell in line with the authorities and a certain government of men embraced the faith bringinging into the headship of the Gov, and soon you had the council of Nicea, and later others , Justinean, and Government was hand in hand with the big Christian majority, spreading fast and all over europe. Then as we have here in America the hand in hand thing, of which Jesus would not be a part of nor will he align himself with government, lawyers instituited faith based isms, it would be and is an oxymoron in and of itself.

 

[Justme]

Hi Mystery,

Preterism can't be discussed on this forum. Well, partial preterism can but I don't know enough about each of the preterisms to be sure. There is a thread on Unorthodox theology called "I want to talk about Preterism" If you want to discuss preterism go there, partial and full preterists will answer you there.

Justme

 

[mysteryman]

ok , i thank you for the info, but i'll not waste my living waters on acid rain tainted soil at this time.