Dangerous and Illegal Worship?

[truefiction1]

I look at the icon of The Dormition of The Theotokos every day and request that she, "remind us of our own deaths." We believe that the Body and Blood of Christ is our life. I can live without my breath or beating heart but I cannot live without His Uncreated Grace that's bestowed through the sacred Eucharist.

Yes, He is our pearl of great price, for Whom we will go and sell everything that we possess, including our own wills and lives, to acquire. He is in the Holy Mysteries, and this is where we can truly be with Him. Give us our Lord, or give us death so that we can go to be with Him!

 

[ArmyMatt]

just watched the video, Fr Josiah nailed it. I remember Fr Thomas Hopko saying something similar once when I was pelting him with questions at Holy Transfiguration Monastery.

 

[Xenophon]

just watched the video, Fr Josiah nailed it. I remember Fr Thomas Hopko saying something similar once when I was pelting him with questions at Holy Transfiguration Monastery.

What should I do if my new Job has me working Sundays without much chance of that changing (for maybe as long as a year or two?

 

[ArmyMatt]

What should I do if my new Job has me working Sundays without much chance of that changing (for maybe as long as a year or two?

talk to your priest and boss

 

[dzheremi]

I've seen videos of the liturgy being held in my Church as recently as a few days ago where everyone serving (priest, deacons, etc.) was masked. The bishop was present at one and took off his mask for the proclamation of the Gospel and the sermon only. (Such things are done at a greater distance than six feet from the laity already, though perhaps not from the deacons and cantor.)

What I have seen with my own eyes occurring in Egypt in the last few years, with (e.g.) the army running Coptic people over with tanks at Maspero or firing live ammunition at a monastery, makes me think that we Christians in the West have a very low tolerance for persecution. Granted, it is a lot more subtle here than there, but still. Lord have mercy. I hope everyone who is not currently able to do so will be able to attend liturgy soon. I know what it is like to go without, and it is obviously not good. Again, Lord have mercy.

 

[Hermit76]

What should I do if my new Job has me working Sundays without much chance of that changing (for maybe as long as a year or two?

That is the biggest plus for being a teacher. I have time off for services

 

[tapi]

I've seen videos of the liturgy being held in my Church as recently as a few days ago where everyone serving (priest, deacons, etc.) was masked. The bishop was present at one and took off his mask for the proclamation of the Gospel and the sermon only. (Such things are done at a greater distance than six feet from the laity already, though perhaps not from the deacons and cantor.)

What I have seen with my own eyes occurring in Egypt in the last few years, with (e.g.) the army running Coptic people over with tanks at Maspero or firing live ammunition at a monastery, makes me think that we Christians in the West have a very low tolerance for persecution. Granted, it is a lot more subtle here than there, but still. Lord have mercy. I hope everyone who is not currently able to do so will be able to attend liturgy soon. I know what it is like to go without, and it is obviously not good. Again, Lord have mercy.

It is truly weird in many senses, people cry persecution at the slightest inconvenience. Here in Sweden things are not great due to some grievous mistakes in the initial response to the virus, but we turned the corner and I'm expecting things to start to open up soon. In Finland the Churches are already returning to full functionality after a few months of skeleton crew services during which the virus was pretty much eliminated from the country. There are not really any people crying about persecution or stuff like that. People hunkered down for a bit and now things are getting back to normal. No signs of any sort of grand scheme to undermine Christianity. It sucks to not be able to participate normally in the Eucharistic life which is Life itself, but a few months of less frequent participation in the Holy Communion is not a disaster nor a persecution. Personally, I took it as a challenge to focus on God more at home and can appreciate the normal state of things with a greater apprecitation.

 

[Hermit76]

It's difficult to compare from one area of the world to another. None of us would argue or imagine we have seen persecution akin to the Coptics'. I think you have to consider that Fr. Trenhem is in California. Their state government is much different than much of the rest of the United States. When you consider the history of stifling speech and activity in the US, especially in California and the Northeast, it would be easier to see where we are coming from. Plus, you also need to consider that the orders against churches are inconsistent with the orders for other institutions. Couple that with the historic and the contemporary reactions of the Eastern Orthodox to such orders and you will see that Fr. Trenhem is following Orthodox tradition.

 

[dzheremi]

It's difficult to compare from one area of the world to another. None of us would argue or imagine we have seen persecution akin to the Coptics'. I think you have to consider that Fr. Trenhem is in California. Their state government is much different than much of the rest of the United States. When you consider the history of stifling speech and activity in the US, especially in California and the Northeast, it would be easier to see where we are coming from. Plus, you also need to consider that the orders against churches are inconsistent with the orders for other institutions. Couple that with the historic and the contemporary reactions of the Eastern Orthodox to such orders and you will see that Fr. Trenhem is following Orthodox tradition.

I live in the capital city of California.

Is there anything you'd like me to go yell at our representatives about?

 

[Hermit76]

I live in the capital city of California.

Is there anything you'd like me to go yell at our representatives about?

Nothing that would be proper to vocalize on the forum.

 

[Hermit76]

I live in the capital city of California.

Is there anything you'd like me to go yell at our representatives about?

I feel fortunate to be in Tennessee. There's care taken but very rational.

 

[truefiction1]

It is truly weird in many senses, people cry persecution at the slightest inconvenience. Here in Sweden things are not great due to some grievous mistakes in the initial response to the virus, but we turned the corner and I'm expecting things to start to open up soon. In Finland the Churches are already returning to full functionality after a few months of skeleton crew services during which the virus was pretty much eliminated from the country. There are not really any people crying about persecution or stuff like that. People hunkered down for a bit and now things are getting back to normal. No signs of any sort of grand scheme to undermine Christianity. It sucks to not be able to participate normally in the Eucharistic life which is Life itself, but a few months of less frequent participation in the Holy Communion is not a disaster nor a persecution. Personally, I took it as a challenge to focus on God more at home and can appreciate the normal state of things with a greater apprecitation.

For Me, personally, the whole experience was more like an excommunication and a penance. For it did not take long for me to come to see that we have (myself especially) a serious sin problem all around. I saw and experienced a few things I'm not going to mention, and only a small amount of persecution, not from whom you would expect. All I will say is that very strong exhortations to deep repentance on our parts, and on the part of our clergy too, are undoubtedly needed at this time.

 

[dzheremi]

Nothing that would be proper to vocalize on the forum.

I gotcha:

 

[SingularityOne]

I feel fortunate to be in Tennessee. There's care taken but very rational.

I think it’s the most rational state in all of this. Not to say it’s being rational all-together though.

 

[gurneyhalleck1]

You have far too much trust in government, principalities, and the seculars, Tapi. You always underestimate how the Evil One uses secular powers to do his dirty work. Going a long time without the Eucharist should put a strain on us, a yearning, a less than acquiescent state for our souls. Globalist atheism has been out to undermine Christianity for decades.

It is truly weird in many senses, people cry persecution at the slightest inconvenience. Here in Sweden things are not great due to some grievous mistakes in the initial response to the virus, but we turned the corner and I'm expecting things to start to open up soon. In Finland the Churches are already returning to full functionality after a few months of skeleton crew services during which the virus was pretty much eliminated from the country. There are not really any people crying about persecution or stuff like that. People hunkered down for a bit and now things are getting back to normal. No signs of any sort of grand scheme to undermine Christianity. It sucks to not be able to participate normally in the Eucharistic life which is Life itself, but a few months of less frequent participation in the Holy Communion is not a disaster nor a persecution. Personally, I took it as a challenge to focus on God more at home and can appreciate the normal state of things with a greater apprecitation.

 

[gurneyhalleck1]

We had two baptisms today, and I was godfather of one. Eucharist, liturgy, just another day at church. In central California, many churches are ignoring Newsom, and the sheriffs won’t enforce. Governor Gruesome thinks he’s more powerful than he really is.

It's difficult to compare from one area of the world to another. None of us would argue or imagine we have seen persecution akin to the Coptics'. I think you have to consider that Fr. Trenhem is in California. Their state government is much different than much of the rest of the United States. When you consider the history of stifling speech and activity in the US, especially in California and the Northeast, it would be easier to see where we are coming from. Plus, you also need to consider that the orders against churches are inconsistent with the orders for other institutions. Couple that with the historic and the contemporary reactions of the Eastern Orthodox to such orders and you will see that Fr. Trenhem is following Orthodox tradition.

 

[Frugality]

In my state, the strip clubs are open at near full capacity, but they're still banning church services. It's one of the most clearly demonic things I've ever seen.

 

[FenderTL5]

I watched the video in the OP. Very good material from Fr Josiah.

I only noticed one comment that could be challenged, he said (in effect), "..there's no evidence of people dropping dead from attending worship services.."
Depending on how much nuance is allowed in that comment there have been several hotspot outbreaks that are directly tied to church gatherings.
The outbreak in south Georgia, which was spread through funeral services, being one. Another directly tied to a church choir practice in Washington state being another. In April, Around one-third of confirmed cases of COVID-19 in Sacramento County California were tied to church gatherings.
I'm certain a search would reveal more.

If we limit discussion to people "dropping dead" then of course that's accurate since that's not how the illness works/progresses. The same would be true of any large gathering, you don't walk in healthy and drop dead because the virus is present.

Other than that one instance and depending the level of hyperbole intended, I agree with him entirely. I support churches being open with safety measures in place, regardless of ordinances.

[edited to amend the choir rehearsal locale as Washington state]

 

[dzheremi]

I watched the video in the OP. Very good material from Fr Josiah.

I only noticed one comment that could be challenged, he said (in effect), "..there's no evidence of people dropping dead from attending worship services.."
Depending on how much nuance is allowed in that comment there have been several hotspot outbreaks that are directly tied to church gatherings.
The outbreak in south Georgia, which was spread through a youth conference, being one. Another directly tied to a church choir practice in either Missouri or Arkansas being another. In April, Around one-third of confirmed cases of COVID-19 in Sacramento County California were tied to church gatherings.
I'm certain a search would reveal more.

I live in Sacramento proper, and just to put a little more information into your example, it was reported by the local news here in early April that at least 70 cases (at a time when we had many fewer cases than we do now) were tied to attendance at one specific church, a certain Bethel Slavic Baptist Church in the northern part of the city. They refused to stop having meetings with so many people at them even after this had been pointed out to their leadership. It became a point of contention with the city and their immediate neighbors (and they aren't too far from where I am, so I suppose I'm one of them).

This was not the attitude taken by any other church in the city, it should be pointed out. We have many churches here of all kinds, including two Russian Orthodox churches, yet only the Slavic Baptists were like this.

 

[ZaidaBoBaida]

Saying that Christians in the US aren't being discriminated against because nobody is running us over with tanks (yet) is like saying that a person with stage one cancer doesn't really have cancer because it's not stage 4. We have to stand up to this before it gets to the point of running us over with tanks.