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Dancing in the Spirit
- Thread starter FuegoPentecostes
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Saol
The Pirate Who Doesn't Do Anything
- Jun 4, 2012
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That's actually more or less what I said. It's about spontaneity, allowing the Spirit to move the body, and not the mind. I get it, it's surrender really. I don't devalue that kind of worship and neither does Zoe.
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stormdancer0
Do not be so open-minded that your brain falls out
Since you are determined, in this and other threads, to be confrontational and twist everything I say, I bow out of this conversation. Not because I am wrong, but because I am sick of the lies and exaggerations.
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Zoe of Elyon
Balletomane
I was debating whether or not to post again in this thread. I had a busy weekend and haven't been online for the most part since I think Thursday. Anyway, I've got some time now so I'll try this again.
Thanks. I agree with that.
I think I should point out, because sometimes things that are obvious to me arent obvious to non-dancers, there is a time and a place for choreographed dance. It would be completely inappropriate for me during a worship service to start performing Auroras variation from Sleeping Beauty, or even choreography I made up for a given worship song - and lest anybody thinks that is what Ive been talking about, its not. The time and place for choreographed dance is when and where its requested by the worship pastor or whoevers in charge of that. So far, each time Ive been asked to dance or choreograph for a worship service, the music was given to me beforehand and the dance was a separate part of the service, kind of like how some churches have "special music" or a choral number. Spontaneous dance should be spontaneous, and Ive done that as well, but not in a church service. I dont go to a Pentecostal or charismatic church, and if I were to start spontaneously dancing in the aisle during worship it would attract attention to me, not to God, and thats not good. For that reason, I only do spontaneous dancing in places where I know it will be understood.
As my husband mentioned, I studied dance in college, at a university that is very strongly Christian. Our dance department frequently had times of worship together, which included dancing for those who felt moved to do so. If a non-dancer were to walk in on us during one of those times, from their perspective it might look weird, or it might look beautiful, and it might even look choreographed. When a trained dancer moves, its going to look different from when a non-dancer moves. That is, if we leap, were going to stretch our legs and point our feet we cant help it, any more than a trained singer can help staying on key. To take it a step further, I could probably improv in front of any of you, and make you think it was a pre-choreographed dance. So when you see a trained dancer move, dont assume you know what theyre doing.
Absolutely. Not being raised in charismatic churches, my first encounters with that style of worship were very surprising! I wasnt sure what to think about it. Then I learned that I cant dictate how people worship and I certainly cant dictate how the Holy Spirit can or cannot work so now I am okay with people having different expressions of worship. Worship is about the heart above all else, and its not my job (or even in my ability) to determine the state of anybodys heart besides my own.
Im sorry youre having a difficult time with the high school worship team. Personally, when I was in high school, I liked our youth group worship to be more lively and energetic than Sunday morning worship. I think theres something to be said for music that is relatable to the people singing it, so I like both old and new songs. I think RUF (Reformed University Fellowship, which I wasnt part of) produces CDs of worship music that are hymns arranged to sound more contemporary. I wonder if your higher-ups would be okay with something like that? Sometimes you have to introduce change very slowly.
I love this guy.
This coincides with my past experiences as I mentioned above, which I termed improvisation because that's the dance term for any unchoreographed dance.
This is where your description, as well as stormdancers, differs a little from my experience. When I improv I do sometimes think about what Im doing as I do it or before I do it. Not when I'm just dancing my heart out, but if its dancing as a prayer I choose my movements more carefully because dance is a language and I want to communicate something specific.
That wasnt really what I was asking, although I appreciate this point of view. I wasnt talking of importance but of similarity.
I usually pray during plié, the first exercise of ballet class, and often during the beginning of modern class too. And at college we had one pianist who used to play for Ballet Magnificat, so sometimes he would play worship music all the way through class, and that made it easier to have an attitude of worship. Its hard because on the one hand Im thinking about my technique, my artistry, improving myself, etc., but on the other hand, I have to keep in mind the reason why Im dancing in the first place is because God made me for this, and it's my gift to Him. I am so fortunate to have gone to a college where the faculty made an effort to help us keep this focus.
Indeed; maybe there is a distinction here that I failed to infer. I take it that dancing in the Spirit is a term that applies specifically to spontaneous dance; however, choreographed or otherwise pre-planned dancing can also be done as worship just like playing worship music.
I must have gotten the wrong idea from your use of the words fleshly, carnal, prideful, ludicrous, ignorant, common, profane, unacceptable, and so forth, in response to me/my ideas. My mistake . . . I think?
This is why I repeatedly asked you to explain it to me, and why I posed very simple and specific questions that would fill in the blanks for me. I stated in my first post in this thread that I was unfamiliar with the term dancing in the Spirit, although once I received some answers from stormdancer I realized this term could be applied to what my dance department did together, as I described above.
I think you have misunderstood me. I was not attempting to argue that choreographed dance is the same thing as what you have described, only that it, too, can be a valid form of worship if that is the intention of the choreography and the dancers.
Exactly. Im not trying to invalidate what you are talking about; Im just saying thats not the only way dance can be used for worship.
Thanks. I agree with that.
I think I should point out, because sometimes things that are obvious to me arent obvious to non-dancers, there is a time and a place for choreographed dance. It would be completely inappropriate for me during a worship service to start performing Auroras variation from Sleeping Beauty, or even choreography I made up for a given worship song - and lest anybody thinks that is what Ive been talking about, its not. The time and place for choreographed dance is when and where its requested by the worship pastor or whoevers in charge of that. So far, each time Ive been asked to dance or choreograph for a worship service, the music was given to me beforehand and the dance was a separate part of the service, kind of like how some churches have "special music" or a choral number. Spontaneous dance should be spontaneous, and Ive done that as well, but not in a church service. I dont go to a Pentecostal or charismatic church, and if I were to start spontaneously dancing in the aisle during worship it would attract attention to me, not to God, and thats not good. For that reason, I only do spontaneous dancing in places where I know it will be understood.
As my husband mentioned, I studied dance in college, at a university that is very strongly Christian. Our dance department frequently had times of worship together, which included dancing for those who felt moved to do so. If a non-dancer were to walk in on us during one of those times, from their perspective it might look weird, or it might look beautiful, and it might even look choreographed. When a trained dancer moves, its going to look different from when a non-dancer moves. That is, if we leap, were going to stretch our legs and point our feet we cant help it, any more than a trained singer can help staying on key. To take it a step further, I could probably improv in front of any of you, and make you think it was a pre-choreographed dance. So when you see a trained dancer move, dont assume you know what theyre doing.
Absolutely. Not being raised in charismatic churches, my first encounters with that style of worship were very surprising! I wasnt sure what to think about it. Then I learned that I cant dictate how people worship and I certainly cant dictate how the Holy Spirit can or cannot work so now I am okay with people having different expressions of worship. Worship is about the heart above all else, and its not my job (or even in my ability) to determine the state of anybodys heart besides my own.
Im sorry youre having a difficult time with the high school worship team. Personally, when I was in high school, I liked our youth group worship to be more lively and energetic than Sunday morning worship. I think theres something to be said for music that is relatable to the people singing it, so I like both old and new songs. I think RUF (Reformed University Fellowship, which I wasnt part of) produces CDs of worship music that are hymns arranged to sound more contemporary. I wonder if your higher-ups would be okay with something like that? Sometimes you have to introduce change very slowly.
I love this guy.This coincides with my past experiences as I mentioned above, which I termed improvisation because that's the dance term for any unchoreographed dance.
This is where your description, as well as stormdancers, differs a little from my experience. When I improv I do sometimes think about what Im doing as I do it or before I do it. Not when I'm just dancing my heart out, but if its dancing as a prayer I choose my movements more carefully because dance is a language and I want to communicate something specific.
That wasnt really what I was asking, although I appreciate this point of view. I wasnt talking of importance but of similarity.
I usually pray during plié, the first exercise of ballet class, and often during the beginning of modern class too. And at college we had one pianist who used to play for Ballet Magnificat, so sometimes he would play worship music all the way through class, and that made it easier to have an attitude of worship. Its hard because on the one hand Im thinking about my technique, my artistry, improving myself, etc., but on the other hand, I have to keep in mind the reason why Im dancing in the first place is because God made me for this, and it's my gift to Him. I am so fortunate to have gone to a college where the faculty made an effort to help us keep this focus.
Indeed; maybe there is a distinction here that I failed to infer. I take it that dancing in the Spirit is a term that applies specifically to spontaneous dance; however, choreographed or otherwise pre-planned dancing can also be done as worship just like playing worship music.
I must have gotten the wrong idea from your use of the words fleshly, carnal, prideful, ludicrous, ignorant, common, profane, unacceptable, and so forth, in response to me/my ideas. My mistake . . . I think?
This is why I repeatedly asked you to explain it to me, and why I posed very simple and specific questions that would fill in the blanks for me. I stated in my first post in this thread that I was unfamiliar with the term dancing in the Spirit, although once I received some answers from stormdancer I realized this term could be applied to what my dance department did together, as I described above.
I think you have misunderstood me. I was not attempting to argue that choreographed dance is the same thing as what you have described, only that it, too, can be a valid form of worship if that is the intention of the choreography and the dancers.
Exactly. Im not trying to invalidate what you are talking about; Im just saying thats not the only way dance can be used for worship.
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Zoe of Elyon quote:
I’m sorry you’re having a difficult time with the high school worship team. Personally, when I was in high school, I liked our youth group worship to be more lively and energetic than Sunday morning worship. I think there’s something to be said for music that is relatable to the people singing it, so I like both old and new songs. I think RUF (Reformed University Fellowship, which I wasn’t part of) produces CDs of worship music that are hymns arranged to sound more contemporary. I wonder if your higher-ups would be okay with something like that? Sometimes you have to introduce change very slowly.
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Sorry couldn't figure out the quote function.
Actually...we still play our Hillsong, Planetshakers, and Jesus Culture songs..it just doesn't fit their preference in the least.
I’m sorry you’re having a difficult time with the high school worship team. Personally, when I was in high school, I liked our youth group worship to be more lively and energetic than Sunday morning worship. I think there’s something to be said for music that is relatable to the people singing it, so I like both old and new songs. I think RUF (Reformed University Fellowship, which I wasn’t part of) produces CDs of worship music that are hymns arranged to sound more contemporary. I wonder if your higher-ups would be okay with something like that? Sometimes you have to introduce change very slowly.
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Sorry couldn't figure out the quote function.
Actually...we still play our Hillsong, Planetshakers, and Jesus Culture songs..it just doesn't fit their preference in the least.
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Zoe of Elyon
Balletomane
Haha, well there you go.
I'm still figuring out quoting too - that is, I know how to do it, but sometimes a person's post doesn't quote automatically. But anyway, to quote just one person's post, click "quote" on the bottom right corner of their post. If you want to quote more than one person in a post, click the button next to it, "MQ" (multiple quote). To manually quote, type [ QUOTE = person's username ] and then paste the quote and then [ / quote ] (but without spaces for all that).
I'm still figuring out quoting too - that is, I know how to do it, but sometimes a person's post doesn't quote automatically. But anyway, to quote just one person's post, click "quote" on the bottom right corner of their post. If you want to quote more than one person in a post, click the button next to it, "MQ" (multiple quote). To manually quote, type [ QUOTE = person's username ] and then paste the quote and then [ / quote ] (but without spaces for all that).
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Zoe of Elyon
Balletomane
I'm sorry Nikos, but if you aren't even going to try to understand me, I am not going to try to answer such nonsensical questions. I don't have anything against you; I just don't want to argue with you anymore.
Edit: Nikos' recent editing of the previous post renders this comment superfluous. Disregard.
Edit: Nikos' recent editing of the previous post renders this comment superfluous. Disregard.
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stormdancer0
Do not be so open-minded that your brain falls out
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stormdancer0
Do not be so open-minded that your brain falls out
I know. But I've been wanting to post that particular troll for a while now. He's so ugly, he's cute!!
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I can just see her dancing down the aisle and twirling her bat. I'm sure you would really get into worship. ha
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