Dancing in the Spirit

[awakeningekklesia]

God uses our physical faculties to work through. We are to yield to the Spirit.

I agree 100%
we have to listen and follow him

The 7 churches in rev 2 and 3 all have one thing in common. They are told he that has an ear let him hear What the Spirit saith to the church.

Worship though is an interesting subject. Because if you think about what worship really is, it's radically different than the rest of the things pertainig to God. When God gives gifts it's God giving to us. But when we worship we give to God

That's why I believe it says David danced with all "his" might. It doesn't say Gods might.

Jesus said the father seeks a people that will worship him in spirit and in truth. Were it says spirit that's not talking about the spirit of god but the spirit of man. The father seeks a people that will purely worship with complete undefiled passion from their own heart willing with all there might

David was called the apple of Gods eye and believe the reason why he was "the apple of Gods eye" is because he worship with everything in him.

If I'm wrong why does it say David worshipped with all "his" might and not the "might of God". The fact it says davids might says David had ownership in the worship that was taking place and it wasn't an act controlled by the Spirit but one David willingly stepped out on his own and done

 

[Nikos7]

In order to understand what it means to worship in spirit first we need to understand what is spirit? The Bible has multiple references to spirit. 348 references in the Old Testament, 350 references in the New Testament. Now not all those references are referring to the human spirit, some reference the Holy Spirit, some reference evil spirits.

The spirit is the inner most part of man. The Bible tells us that we are the temple of the Holy Spirit. If you think about it, the Holy of Holies is symbolic of the human spirit. The spirit is the deepest part of humanity. The spirit is the place that Holy Spirit indwells: 1 Cor 6:19 Or do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit within you, whom you have from God? You are not your own.


Worship in spirit is all about God with us. It is about being indwelt with the Holy God in our spirit. It is all about a covenant relationship with the almighty God, where God is within us, leading us daily.


Worship in spirit is surrender to the Holy Spirit and not relying on our own strength. Worship in spirit is surrendering to God on a daily basis and following the leading of the Holy Spirit. It is ongoing relating with God. It is God dwelling in us and leading us on His path. Now it can involve righteous behavior. It can involve internal, mystical experience. It can involve outpouring and external manifestations. It can involve supernatural activity. There are places where we sense the Holy Spirit active, such as in church.

Worship in spirit is daily, ongoing surrender of self to the Holy Spirit.

 

[stormdancer0]

Still, if we want to choreograph a dance expressing our worship of God, there is nothing wrong with that. We can dance FOR God; and we can dance IN God. Two different things but the first can lead to the second. Both are worship.

 

[Zoe of Elyon]

Hello all. I'm new to the forums and new to the concept of dancing in the Spirit, but I'm not new to dance so I think I can add a different perspective to this thread.

The ancient Hebrews, like every other culture around the world, used dance as a method of worship and communion with God. Unlike many Eastern cultures, this dancing never developed into a codified technique (i.e. a dance form consisting of a specific vocabulary of steps or choreographed dances serving particular purposes) but always remained spontaneous and improvisational. Unfortunately, because Israel as a rule abstained from the visual arts, we have very little idea of what this kind of dancing looked like.

From browsing this thread, it appears the only two kinds of dancing being talked about are choreographed dance and unconscious/uncontrolled movement. There is another kind of dancing, called improvisation. Improv is unchoreographed but consists of making choices as you go. It is therefore controlled, but not fixed - the movement responds to the situation as it progresses.

I have danced in church before at the invitation of church leaders. I usually choreograph what I'm going to do because my belief is, if it's a performance (I am dancing while others are watching), the movement needs to be intentional in order to convey the right message. I have also danced as part of meetings with other dancers who are Christians, and this is always improv. Using improv for worship or prayer, the movements I do are conscious, thoughtful - they mean something, or if you will, they are a visual and kinesthetic expression of my inner thoughts, prayers, or what my spirit feels.

 

[Nikos7]

To say that dancing in the Spirit is uncontrolled and unconscious is ludicrous and shows an ignornace of what moving in the Spirit is all about. True worship is is always in the Spirit and anything outside the moving and the presence of God is common and profane and it is unaceptable. Any offering to God whether worship or other, is never to be done independent from the Spirit of God. Why would anyone want to, unless it stems from fleshly pride.

 

[stormdancer0]

To say that dancing in the Spirit is uncontrolled and unconscious is ludicrous and shows an ignornace of what moving in the Spirit is all about. True worship is is always in the Spirit and anything outside the moving and the presence of God is common and profane and it is unaceptable. Any offering to God whether worship or other, is never to be done independent from the Spirit of God. Why would anyone want to, unless it stems from fleshly pride.

I think we are trying to differentiate between pre-planned choreographed dance, and spontaneous worship dance. I believe both can be worship. Others do not agree. This is the discussion.

 

[Nikos7]

I think we are trying to differentiate between pre-planned choreographed dance, and spontaneous worship dance. I believe both can be worship. Others do not agree. This is the discussion.

Excuse me. I thought that my words about the moving of the Spirit would be a part of the dicussion too. I am concerned that it is not, at least according to you. It really makes little difference to me what kind of dance it is you are suggesting, I still believe it must be done in the Spirit if it is presented to the Lord.

 

[Zoe of Elyon]

To say that dancing in the Spirit is uncontrolled and unconscious is ludicrous and shows an ignornace of what moving in the Spirit is all about. True worship is is always in the Spirit and anything outside the moving and the presence of God is common and profane and it is unaceptable. Any offering to God whether worship or other, is never to be done independent from the Spirit of God. Why would anyone want to, unless it stems from fleshly pride.

I'm not sure if this post is directed at me, but if so, I think we are having a misunderstanding; like I said, I am new to the term "dancing in the spirit," and as a trained dancer I am trying to understand what it means from a dancer's perspective and how it relates to my own experience. Perhaps I should ask some questions to clarify first. These are for anybody, by the way.

1) When one dances in the Spirit, is the Holy Spirit inspiring you to dance, or is the Holy Spirit also guiding/directing/controlling your movements?

2) Do you consciously think about the movements you are doing while you are dancing in the Spirit?

3) Is dancing in the Spirit more similar to speaking in tongues or to worship through singing?

4) Do you have any background in formal dance training of any kind? For those of you who do, have you ever experienced the Holy Spirit's presence while doing this kind of dance?

 

[stormdancer0]

Excuse me. I thought that my words about the moving of the Spirit would be a part of the dicussion too. I am concerned that it is not, at least according to you. It really makes little difference to me what kind of dance it is you are suggesting, I still believe it must be done in the Spirit if it is presented to the Lord.

Sorry. I got the impression you were confused about the issue. Your words are definitely an important part of the discussion. Going back to read your posts, I'm not sure where I got that impression.

 

[Nikos7]

To try to predetermine how the Holy Spirit is going to do something is not at issue. What matters is that we yield to the Lord and it is up to the Holy Spirit what he does through us. He will never force Himself upon us. We never have to be concerned about trying to predict just how things are done. Some people may jump and others may dance what seems to us awkwardly and others may dance in other ways.
The church today has everything geared to performance and style and esthetic beauty. I reject that idea. When God flows through a person it is as beautiful as his/her heart is yielded to God. No matter what we do in worship, it is always the heart that makes things acceptable to The Father. I have seen worship that to many might seem crude. But I know that God was pleased because He saw a heart that was seeking to please Him.

 

[Zoe of Elyon]

Okay, maybe asking simple, direct questions doesn't work on this forum, but I'll try again.

Nikos, do you think "performance and style and esthetic [sic] beauty" are wrong in church because those are bad things in and of themselves, or because you believe they are and cannot be Spirit-led?

Does your church use musical instruments and/or sing praise songs?

 

[Nikos7]

There are many things that are done in church that are not bad. But we are talking about worship. I believe that anything that is offered as worship in the House of God or outside the House of God should be done in the Spirit. If we are living close to the Lord then we will flow in the Spirit. However, many come into the church and operate outside the moving of the Spirit. IN fact it is possible that most of the service is not in the Spirit. That service is not pleasing to the Lord. He wants us to move in the spirit. I believe that God loves worship and praise that is born in the heart of a true worshipper.

I think I will let others comment. I have said enough. Thanks!

 

[Zoe of Elyon]

And yet you haven't answered any of my questions. I am no closer to understanding you than I was when I first entered this topic. Maybe this will prompt you to respond directly to me.

I believe you are dismissing a lot of things as not being Spirit-led without understanding them. When I dance, it is an act of worship whether it is swaying to the music or improv or classical ballet. Everything I have comes from God, and I believe God asks me to use my talents for Him and to present Him my best in everything. I think you are discounting the validity of trained dancers dancing in worship because you do not understand a dancer's mindset.

I am a person. Talk to me.

 

[Nikos7]

It is obvious that I don't understand your mindset. I have answered every question but sometimes people don't like the answers. The bottom line is you cannot teach how to move in the Spirit. That is not man's job that is the work of the Holy Spirit. You may be a dancer but that does not qualify you to dance in the Spirit. You may be a good speaker but that does not qualify you to be a preacher. Anyone can say I am doing it for the Lord, but if it is not from a dedicated heart and in the move of the Spirit you can dance till the cows come home and you can talk sweet words but when you are done you only offered the flesh. Now I am done with this topic for sure. So long.

 

[Zoe of Elyon]

No, you did not answer my questions (if you want to show me how you answered each of my questions, I will copy them in this post). I don't appreciate your invalidating my experience just because I'm a trained dancer. I have not invalidated you or your experience. I realize that being trained doesn't "qualify" me to dance in the Spirit, but it also doesn't disqualify me, and that's what I think you're not getting. I have the Holy Spirit in me, just as you do, and when I am moved to dance, it's going to look different from when a non-dancer is moved to dance. I also don't appreciate your getting frustrated with me when I have only been trying to understand you. If I have said anything rude or offensive, I apologize, but if not, I don't understand your annoyance. I don't appreciate your making assumptions about my heart (or the heart of any trained dancer) by implying that any kind of dance that is outside your frame of reference is fleshly, profane, unacceptable, just because it doesn't look the way you want it to. We are strangers; you do not know me, and you certainly don't know my heart. That is between God and me.

If anybody cares, or if anybody else would like to answer, these were my questions:


1) When one dances in the Spirit, is the Holy Spirit inspiring you to dance, or is the Holy Spirit also guiding/directing/controlling your movements?

2) Do you consciously think about the movements you are doing while you are dancing in the Spirit?

3) Is dancing in the Spirit more similar to speaking in tongues or to worship through singing?

4) Do you have any background in formal dance training of any kind? For those of you who do, have you ever experienced the Holy Spirit's presence while doing this kind of dance?

And the following were specifically for Nikos but if anybody else wants to weigh in I would appreciate the input:

Nikos, do you think "performance and style and esthetic [sic] beauty" are wrong in church because those are bad things in and of themselves, or because you believe they are and cannot be Spirit-led?

Does your church use musical instruments and/or sing praise songs?

 

[stormdancer0]

1) When one dances in the Spirit, is the Holy Spirit inspiring you to dance, or is the Holy Spirit also guiding/directing/controlling your movements?
The Holy Spirit is inspiring the dance. God is a gentleman. He will never control your actions, never force you to do anything. He could be guiding your dance, but not controlling it.

2) Do you consciously think about the movements you are doing while you are dancing in the Spirit?

Personally, I do not. But I don't think it matters. It's not a "this or that" thing. It can be either. If you are consciously controlling your movements, it is worship if you are doing it from a humble and worshiping spirit.

3) Is dancing in the Spirit more similar to speaking in tongues or to worship through singing?

It is more similar to worship through singing, because both are music-oriented.

4) Do you have any background in formal dance training of any kind? For those of you who do, have you ever experienced the Holy Spirit's presence while doing this kind of dance?

Sorry, can't help you there. No formal training.

And the following were specifically for Nikos but if anybody else wants to weigh in I would appreciate the input:

Nikos, do you think "performance and style and esthetic [sic] beauty" are wrong in church because those are bad things in and of themselves, or because you believe they are and cannot be Spirit-led?

They can be Spirit-led. Some people do not believe in choreographed worship dance. I don't see the difference between that and scheduling the sermon after the music, or altar call after the sermon.

Does your church use musical instruments and/or sing praise songs?

Yes, we do.

.

 

[Nikos7]

Nothing is mentioned of dancing in the New Testament church, whereas, instruction is given to encourage one another: "Be filled with the Spirit; speaking to yourselves in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing and making melody in your heart to the Lord; giving thanks always for all things unto God and the Father in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ..." Ephesians 5:18b-20.
If there were such activity in the early church, it would undoubtedly be mentioned it here or in Colossians 3:16.

 

[stormdancer0]

Nothing is mentioned of dancing in the New Testament church, whereas, instruction is given to encourage one another: "Be filled with the Spirit; speaking to yourselves in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing and making melody in your heart to the Lord; giving thanks always for all things unto God and the Father in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ..." Ephesians 5:18b-20.
If there were such activity in the early church, it would undoubtedly be mentioned it here or in Colossians 3:16.

So don't dance if you don't want to.

Glad to know we have someone who knows EVERYTHING they did in EVERY church service.

I read and take in BOTH Testaments. Dancing with all one's might is mentioned.

 

[Nikos7]

I can see that there is a determined will to dance/worship in the carnal flesh. I can't imagine any person who loves the Lord not wanting the power of the Spirit in all things whether in church or not. It just makes spiritual sense.

 

[stormdancer0]

Nothing carnal here.

I don't see how you're getting "not wanting the power of the Spirit" out of dancing in worship. It seems you are the one determined to insult anyone who doesn't bow down to your narrow interpretation.

And it's not even valid interpretation - just the fact that dance is not mentioned in the New Testament church meetings does not make it carnal, necessarily. The first churches were basically Jews, who have a rich tradition of dancing in worship. Many of the Psalms attest to that, as does the Torah. Jesus was Jewish - do you really thing that dancing offends the King of the Jews?

Never mind. Some people choose not to learn from others.