Dake bible

[Anthony]

Originally posted by Quaffer
Anthony,

I am not necessarily dissagreeing with you, at least not on everything. 

I do have some questions though.  Do you believe we are made in God's image?  If you do, what about us is in His image?

And if God said, that He is not like gods of stone who have ears that don't hear, and eyes that don't see, do you consider that to be a metophor too?

What about King Nebucchazzers son, who saw the "finger of God" writing on the wall? 

Quaffer

On these issues and questions that you have above, I caution. It is not what you or I believe that is the problem, it is what is the next logically or hereticial extension one makes next. The problem with false teachings is they come from something false before, and something false before that.

If you are a mature Christian, you have read scripture and have discernment and can tell what is false and what is truth. But for entry level Christians, they don't have a foundation in scripture, and they are left at the mercy of teachers who give them nice sounding doctrines. Once these false doctrines are incorporated, they go out witness to non-believers who are hurt or damaged by these false concepts mixed with good doctrine.

 
Do you believe we are made in God's image?  If you do, what about us is in His image?

The false teaching is to take "we are made in God's image" to mean that we are exact duplicates of God. Next comes the concept of us being little gods, i.e. the "Diefication of Man".

Here's a False Teaching - Christian  Kenneth Hagin said:

"Man . . . was created on terms of equality with God, and he could stand in God's prescence without any consciosness of inferiority .. God has made us as much like Himself as possible . .  He made us the same class of being that He is Himself . . . Man lived in a realm of God. He live on terms equal with God . . . The Beleiver is called Christ . . . that's who we are, we're Christ.

Another False Teaching- Kenneth Copeland:

 "God's reason for creating Adam was His desire to reproduce Himself . . . He was not a little like God. He was not almost like God. He was not subordinate to God even".

 



  

  

 

 

[SpiritPsalmist]

Originally posted by Anthony
Quaffer

On these issues and questions that you have above, I caution. It is not what you or I believe that is the problem, it is what is the next logically or hereticial extension one makes next. The problem with false teachings is they come from something false before, and something false before that.

If you are a mature Christian, you have read scripture and have discernment and can tell what is false and what is truth. But for entry level Christians, they don't have a foundation in scripture, and they are left at the mercy of teachers who give them nice sounding doctrines. Once these false doctrines are incorporated, they go out witness to non-believers who are hurt or damaged by these false concepts mixed with good doctrine.

 
Do you believe we are made in God's image?  If you do, what about us is in His image?

The false teaching is to take "we are made in God's image" to mean that we are exact duplicates of God. Next comes the concept of us being little gods, i.e. the "Diefication of Man".

Here's a False Teaching - Christian  Kenneth Hagin said:

"Man . . . was created on terms of equality with God, and he could stand in God's prescence without any consciosness of inferiority .. God has made us as much like Himself as possible . .  He made us the same class of being that He is Himself . . . Man lived in a realm of God. He live on terms equal with God . . . The Beleiver is called Christ . . . that's who we are, we're Christ.

Another False Teaching- Kenneth Copeland:

 "God's reason for creating Adam was His desire to reproduce Himself . . . He was not a little like God. He was not almost like God. He was not subordinate to God even".

 

Anthony,

I'm sorry but you did not answer my questions.

I don't believe I stated any extensions of my or Kenneth Hagens thoughts.  I've merely asked questions.

What I believe I've heard so far is that God is Spirt.  He's formless and has no eyes, ears, mouth, etc.  

Is this what you are saying?

 

[Anthony]

Originally posted by Quaffer
 

Anthony,

I'm sorry but you did not answer my questions.

I don't believe I stated any extensions of my or Kenneth Hagens thoughts.  I've merely asked questions.

What I believe I've heard so far is that God is Spirt.  He's formless and has no eyes, ears, mouth, etc.  

Is this what you are saying?

Quaffer

I agree that you didn't "state any extensions of my or Kenneth Hagins thoughts" I was just explaining the risk of extending in a general sense and discussion.

What I believe I've heard so far is that God is Spirt.  He's formless and has no eyes, ears, mouth, etc

I agree with that statement, as it applies to God the Father and the Holy Spirit. Jesus Christ does have form.

 

 

 

[SpiritPsalmist]

Originally posted by Anthony
Quaffer

I agree that you didn't "state any extensions of my or Kenneth Hagins thoughts" I was just explaining the risk of extending in a general sense and discussion.

What I believe I've heard so far is that God is Spirt.  He's formless and has no eyes, ears, mouth, etc

I agree with that statement, as it applies to God the Father and the Holy Spirit. Jesus Christ does have form.

 

 

Anthony,

What is your answer to my questions?

Questions:

1.  Do you believe we are made in God's image?  If you do, what about us is in His image?

2.  If God said, that He is not like gods of stone who have ears that don't hear, and eyes that don't see, do you consider that to be a metophor too?

3.  What about King Nebucchazzers son, who saw the "finger of God" writing on the wall?

 

[Anthony]

Q1: We are created in God's image is figurative, we are simply a reflection of God. This means that we share some of God's attributes which gives us the capacity to enjoy and fellowship with God. But it doesn't mean we posses all of God's attributes, such as self existence, omnipresence, etc. Where does one draw the line. Also in scripture it says "Let make man in our image and likeness". The Hebrew word for Likeness is Demuth, which defines and limits the use of the word image

Q2: If God said, that He is not like gods of stone who have ears that don't hear, and eyes that don't see - What Bible verse is this, I could not find it in the NIV, NKJV, or NASB


Q3: The Finger of God is used four times in scripture, and they are simply Anthropomorphism, indicating God's interaction with his creation. Also what verse are you referring to?

 

[SpiritPsalmist]

Sorry Anthony,

I should have given that to you.  I was in a hurry.

Psalm 115
1 Not unto us, O LORD, not unto us, but unto thy name give glory, for thy mercy, and for thy truth's sake.
2 Wherefore should the heathen say, Where is now their God?
3 But our God is in the heavens: he hath done whatsoever he hath pleased.
4 Their idols are silver and gold, the work of men's hands.
5 They have mouths, but they speak not: eyes have they, but they see not:
6 They have ears, but they hear not: noses have they, but they smell not:
7 They have hands, but they handle not: feet have they, but they walk not: neither speak they through their throat.
8 They that make them are like unto them; so is every one that trusteth in them.

Psalm 135
16 They have mouths, but they speak not; eyes have they, but they see not;
17 They have ears, but they hear not; neither is there any breath in their mouths.
18 They that make them are like unto them: so is every one that trusteth in them

Also Anthony, how did you come to the conclusion Biblically that God is formless and does not have eyes, ears, etc.?  When God says, "they did evil before His eyes" (IS 65:12) and He says "I will hear" (Hosea 2:21), what is He seeing and hearing with?

 

 

[Anthony]

Quaffer

Rather than given a quick answer which won't satisfy, let me do some work.

Also the If God said, that He is not like gods of stone who have ears that don't hear, and eyes that don't see where did that actual wording come from?
thanks

Anthony

 

[SpiritPsalmist]

Originally posted by Anthony
Quaffer

Rather than given a quick answer which won't satisfy, let me do some work.

Also the If God said, that He is not like gods of stone who have ears that don't hear, and eyes that don't see where did that actual wording come from?
thanks

Anthony

Sorry again Anthony,

I do not have my own computer so I can only be on during my work breaks and my lunch time.  Also, I go to the library on my way home from work but there is a time limit.  Hense my sometimes being hurried.

Anyway, I was not intending for that to be an exact quote.  I believe from the 2 scriptures ref that there is a comparison being done between the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob and the gods formed by the hands of men. 

It is clarified that the gods formed by men have eyes, but don't see, and ears, but they do not hear.  It does not appear that God corrects the writer of these Psalms.

Do you believe that God hears us?  Do you believe that He sees us?  If so, how is this accomplished?

Perhaps another thread needs to be started.  Or if there already is one, please direct me to it.

Thank you Anthony and I will try and not be in a hurry every time I post a question. 

 

[SnuP]

Here is my take on the trinity, this is just a theory.

If you take human and saperate him into his three distict parts, spirit soul and body, then you have a simplified version of the trinity. 

Now if you take each part and multiply it by itself out to infinity.  Or untill each part develope their own spirit soul and body.  Then you have the God head. 

Just as my flesh has the ability to touch hold and shape out side things.  So also, Jesus, being God manifested in the flesh, has this ability, but magnified, to touch all things at the same time, to uphold all things by the word of His power.  He can interact with the very molicules and even change their chemical composition. 

Just as my soul can precieve things, make dicissions, and formulate plans.  So also, the Father has the ability, but magnified, to precieve all things, and formulate plans that affect all of mankind, and at the same time to talk to me and help me with my problems.  This would explain why Jesus said that He didn't know when His return would be, but only the Father who is in Heaven.  And why He said that He could do nothing untill He saw the Father do it.Just as my flesh doesn't know what I plan on doing, untill I do it.

Just as my spirit has the ability to give life to the rest of my body, and impower (and lead) me to do the will of God.  So also, the Holy Spirit has the ability, but magnified, to give God's life to all and support that life in all that accept it.  To lead everyone into God's truth, and to impower them to do the will of God.  Manifesting God's power on the earth,  to glorify God by showing the signs of Jesus still manifesting on the earth.

Just as I am incomplete without all parts so is God incomplete with out all parts.  Each part of God is not complete in itself, for each part relies on the other parts to do whatever God has desired.  This is why He is but one God.

Again this is just a theory, but it can answer some questions.

I thank God, that though He be so great, He has fashioned me after Himself and takes time to love me as my 'father'.       Blessed be God, the creator of Heaven and earth, and blessed be God, the big 'huggable teddy bear', that I call papa (abba father).   

[line]

That was something that I posted on another thread.  Now for a closer look at the Father.

If something is spirit does that mean that it can not touch the physical, or that it can not manifest itself in the physical.  Jesus, after He was ressurected had a glorified body, a spiritual body that manifested itself at will in the natural.  Do you assume that the Father has not the power to manifest in the natural.  If an angel, who has no physical body, can manifest himself in the natural, and eat and walk, than has not God the same power.  When God formed us from the dust how did He do it, or is that metiphor too?

The truth is that the Father has a spiritual body.  But not a body like the angels.  And not a body like Jesus' glorified body, but rather a super spiritual body that is more closely related to our own spirit, but without the hinderance of the natural.  I am not making our spirits equal to the Father, do not think that.  But I am saying that they are kin.  Of the same substance.

Our spirit has eyes and ears and a mouth.  A vision is an example of these senses.  When you hear and see in the spirit you don't use your natural eyes and ears.  The Father is like that but He can also manifest in the natural that that is spirit, a finger writing on a wall.  The action being performed in the spirit but manifesting also in the natural.  One person said that the spirit realm is more real then the natural realm could ever be.  Scripture tells us that the two are intertwined.  While it may be true that the Father does not have a physical body (excluding Christ), it would nieve to think that He does not manifest physically.  The truth be told, any manifesting that the Father does in the natural is acually Christ.  He Himself has a form and body parts but that form and body is spirit and is therefore not limited to the natural.

 

[Anthony]

Perhaps another thread needs to be started.  Or if there already is one, please direct me to it.

There is now a separate thread and poll on this topic - Let's continue there
Click
Does God have a physical Body?

 

[SUNSTONE]

Me personaly I don't read the side commentarys of any bible. I might take a look once in a blue moon, but I trust in the Holy Spirit to guide me into all truths. I am sure I would disagree with anyones commentaries, at one point in time if we went over the entire bible.

I don't think anyone has 100% doctrine. We all are students, even the teachers are still students. Look at Daniel and how he misinterpreted about the 70 weeks, he fasted and prayed for 21 days before he got word from the Lord. But the point is, he was wrong in how he interpreted it.

As far as what God looks like, who really knows? Besides those in heaven. And does it really matter?

 

[SpiritPsalmist]

Originally posted by SUNSTONE
Me personaly I don't read the side commentarys of any bible. I might take a look once in a blue moon, but I trust in the Holy Spirit to guide me into all truths. I am sure I would disagree with anyones commentaries, at one point in time if we went over the entire bible.

I don't think anyone has 100% doctrine. We all are students, even the teachers are still students. Look at Daniel and how he misinterpreted about the 70 weeks, he fasted and prayed for 21 days before he got word from the Lord. But the point is, he was wrong in how he interpreted it.

As far as what God looks like, who really knows? Besides those in heaven. And does it really matter?

Sunstone, you are correct.  It really does not matter what God looks like.

Unfortunately, I tend to try and make a point in a long round-about way and not always accomplish what I'm aiming at. 

Anyway, the issue I'm aiming at is fellow brethren accusing other fellow brethren of things without checking ALL the facts.

Such as:  about 20 years ago a expose book came out that was written by a well known christian radio personality.  This person proceded to rip apart several other christians of whom one I personally knew.

I borrowed the book and in the ref portions of the book it referred to supposed statements made by this minister.  It gave the chapters and page numbers, etc where we would supposedly find said comments. 

Well, I just happend to have "said" book and I did not just take Mr/s Radio Personality's word for it.  I looked it up right out of the book itself.  I found that Mr/s Radio Personality missquoted very much.  Portions of whole sentences were missing, etc.  Not to mention that I knew the person being criticized.

This expose' book is still in print today.  I have read several posts where people are being told to read this book.  Several people have and are reading it and not bothering to go the rest of the way and check out if the exposed really did say what Mr/s Radio Personality said they said.

And, that is a problem.  We should not be treating our fellow brethren like that.  Shooting first and not asking questions.  It is wrong.

I believe from my first question, which was "did you bother to check out the whole ref", it was perceived that I was from a certain camp that believed certain things.

While I may be from the side assumed, all assumptions made are not necessarily the truth.  And without asking questions, we end up criticizing and putting down people we are going to spend eternity with.

Sorry I went about it in such a long way.

Bye,

 

[SUNSTONE]

I wonder what Jesus looked like?

He probably had very long hair with a wave to it, and it was full like a lions main(sp?). With firery blue eyes, with a body like the meanest linebacker(football) you ever seen. Its to bad He didn't choose this time to come and do His ministry, He could have been are(Redskins) number one pick out of the draft! Instead of being a carpenter.

 

[SUNSTONE]

Quaffer

I never felt comfortable about those personalitys that just talked bad about other believers. What kind of ministry is that?

 

[SpiritPsalmist]

Origgnally posted by SUNSTONE I wonder what Jesus looked like?

He probably had very long hair with a wave to it, and it was full like a lions main(sp?). With firery blue eyes, with a body like the meanest linebacker(football) you ever seen. Its to bad He didn't choose this time to come and do His ministry, He could have been are(Redskins) number one pick out of the draft! Instead of being a carpenter. <IMG alt="" src="http://www.christianforums.com/images/smilies/tongue.gif" border=0>&nbsp;

Originally posted by SUNSTONE
Quaffer

I never felt comfortable about those personalitys that just talked bad about other believers. What kind of ministry is that?

&nbsp; You are funny.&nbsp; What about the Gators?&nbsp;

Ministry?&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp; I don't think so.

Thanks Sunstone,

&nbsp;

 

[SpiritPsalmist]

Originally posted by SnuP
Here is my take on the trinity, this is just a theory.

If you take human and saperate him into his three distict parts, spirit soul and body, then you have a simplified version of the trinity.&nbsp;

Now if you take each part and multiply it by itself out to infinity.&nbsp; Or untill each part develope their own spirit soul and body.&nbsp; Then you have the God head.&nbsp;

Just as my flesh has the ability to touch hold and shape out side things.&nbsp; So also, Jesus, being God manifested in the flesh,&nbsp;has this ability, but magnified, to touch all things at the same time, to uphold all things by the word of His power.&nbsp; He can interact with the very molicules and even change their chemical composition.&nbsp;

Just as my soul can precieve things, make dicissions, and formulate plans.&nbsp; So also, the Father has the ability, but magnified, to precieve all things, and formulate plans that affect all of mankind, and at the same time to talk to me and help me with my problems.&nbsp; This would explain why Jesus said that He didn't know when His return would be, but only the Father&nbsp;who is in Heaven.&nbsp; And why He said that He could do nothing untill He saw the Father do it.Just as my flesh doesn't know what I plan on doing, untill I do it.

Just as my spirit has the ability to give life to the rest of my body, and impower (and lead)&nbsp;me to do the will of God.&nbsp; So also, the Holy Spirit has the ability, but magnified, to give God's life to all and support that life in all that accept it. &nbsp;To lead&nbsp;everyone into God's truth, and to impower&nbsp;them to do the will of God.&nbsp; Manifesting God's power on the earth,&nbsp; to glorify God by showing the signs of Jesus&nbsp;still manifesting on the earth.

Just as I am incomplete without all parts so is God incomplete with out all parts.&nbsp; Each part of God is not complete in itself, for each part relies on the other parts to do whatever God&nbsp;has desired.&nbsp; This is why He is but one God.

Again this is just a theory, but it can answer some questions.

I thank God, that though He be so great, He has fashioned me after Himself and takes time to love me as my 'father'.&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Blessed be God,&nbsp;the creator of Heaven and earth, and blessed be God, the big 'huggable teddy bear', that I call papa (abba father).&nbsp; &nbsp;


<HR>


That was something that I posted on another thread.&nbsp; Now for a closer look at the Father.

If something is spirit does that mean that it can not touch the physical, or that it can not manifest itself in the physical.&nbsp; Jesus, after He was ressurected had a glorified body, a spiritual body that manifested itself at will in the natural.&nbsp; Do you assume that the Father has not the power to manifest in the natural.&nbsp; If an angel, who has no physical body, can manifest himself in the natural, and eat and walk, than has not God the same power.&nbsp; When God formed us from the dust how did He do it, or is that metiphor too?

The truth is that the Father has a spiritual body.&nbsp; But not a body like the angels.&nbsp; And not a body like Jesus' glorified body, but rather a super spiritual body that is more closely related to our own spirit, but without the hinderance of the natural.&nbsp; I am not making our spirits equal to the Father, do not think that.&nbsp; But I am saying that they are kin.&nbsp; Of the same substance.

Our spirit has eyes and ears and a mouth.&nbsp; A vision is an example of these senses.&nbsp; When you hear and see in the spirit you don't use your natural eyes and ears.&nbsp; The Father is like that but He can also manifest in the natural that that&nbsp;is spirit, a finger writing on a wall.&nbsp; The action being performed in the spirit but manifesting also in the natural.&nbsp; One person said that the spirit realm is more real then the natural realm could ever be.&nbsp; Scripture tells us that the two are intertwined.&nbsp; While it may be true that the Father does not have a physical body (excluding Christ), it would nieve to think that He does not manifest physically.&nbsp; The truth be told, any manifesting that the Father does in the natural is acually Christ.&nbsp; He Himself has a form and body parts but that form&nbsp;and body is spirit and is therefore not limited to the natural.

Hey SnuP,

Thanks very much for your input.&nbsp; It did help.&nbsp; I had never really thought about the differences before.&nbsp;&nbsp;

Much appreciated.

 

[Help-me-learn]

Anthony, are you kjv only?

 

[Anthony]

Helpme

I read the NIV for general bible reading, but will use several bibles, and also make use of the Hebrew and Greek versions ( which are available online ) to do word studies. The KJV, has some translation anomlies in it, so I don't use if for deep study.

 

[Gabriel]

Not that anyone asked but&nbsp;I prefer the New American Standard.&nbsp; It seems to be the most literal translation when compared with the Greek and Hebrew.

I mainly use the NKJ though as it is the version that the study bible that I use comes in. (The New Geneva Study Bible)&nbsp;

 

[SUNSTONE]

I also use the NAS, and in the Thursday night bible study the leader has about 10 of them to share if you don't have a bible. He also has a very nice personal NAS.