dad'd "Box"

[nvxplorer]

Jesus was detected by many, even after rising from the dead. The flood was detected by many as well, most of whom were washed away. Love, I'd say is God, and is detected in one form or another worldwide! As far as devising our own laws of the spirit, I'd say they need to check out with the bible. I think the laws are already devised by God, all we can do is study them as best we can. So, nothing really all that 'individual' about it.

Ahhh...but my spiritual experience is very different from yours, and that is my point. My spirit "speaks" to me when I'm alone, high in the Sierra Nevada. My spirit does not involve the Bible, and not necessarily a god. Yet, my spirit is as "real" as yours. You obtain your rules from the Bible; mine from the mountains. Any claim by you that I am experiencing Jesus is rejected out of hand, and likewise, my mountain "god" does not speak to you. That's the beauty of human spirituality.

 

[Osiris]

I don't see why not, do you? The thing I ask is not if spirits are just real, but are they of God, and good? The bible tells me the acid test.
1Jo 4:3 "And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: ..".

Why would I believe in that verse if Krishna is God? What you have is two sides claiming to be god. If you choose one side, that is because you are biased.

You see, my point was, my neighbor may have made the whole thing up, because the 50,000 witnesses are in his story, it's all hearsay.

 

[Matthew777]

It is that I find it suspicious that an all knowing god would give as his message through selected men's writing, rather than give us the message himself just the same way gave the message to these selected men.

To be honest, the Gospels are reliable enough that one should not need a divine intervention to believe other than the blessing of the Holy Spirit on the human heart.

 

[dad]

Ahhh...but my spiritual experience is very different from yours, and that is my point. My spirit "speaks" to me when I'm alone, high in the Sierra Nevada. My spirit does not involve the Bible, and not necessarily a god. Yet, my spirit is as "real" as yours. You obtain your rules from the Bible; mine from the mountains. Any claim by you that I am experiencing Jesus is rejected out of hand, and likewise, my mountain "god" does not speak to you. That's the beauty of human spirituality.

I have no problem with people having spiritual experiences of their choice. Many spirits are real, I agree. Some may even seem good. I already mentioned the acid test of the bible. Try it sometime, let me know what your spirit says about it, since it speaks to you.

 

[Matthew777]

Dad, please do not post on this forum again until you've read a book by Hugh Ross. It would do you a lot of good.

 

[nvxplorer]

To be honest, the Gospels are reliable enough that one should not need a divine intervention to believe other than the blessing of the Holy Spirit on the human heart.

The question is, why should one need the Gospels in the first place? Many people have spiritual experiences without benefit of the Bible. Native Americans have deep, in-touch-with-the-creation spiritual experiences without benefit of the written word.

 

[dad]

Why would I believe in that verse if Krishna is God? What you have is two sides claiming to be god. If you choose one side, that is because you are biased.

You see, my point was, my neighbor may have made the whole thing up, because the 50,000 witnesses are in his story, it's all hearsay.

Regardless of how many witnesses, or whether there was any truth to your story, I know there are many spirits involved in hinduism, as well as most other religions, and even non religious endeavors, whether they know it or not! But if I remember correctly the hindu gods are just that gods. Wheras God is the Almighty creater of heaven and earth and all things, and all spirits. Big difference!

 

[nvxplorer]

I have no problem with people having spiritual experiences of their choice. Many spirits are real, I agree. Some may even seem good. I already mentioned the acid test of the bible. Try it sometime, let me know what your spirit says about it, since it speaks to you.

Tried it. Doesn't do a thing for me. That's an important distinction because it's not a choice of mine. I feel a natural connectedness with the creation, if you will, and the words of men, indeed, words of any kind are not conducive to a spiritual experience - for me that is.

 

[dad]

Dad, please do not post on this forum again until you've read a book by Hugh Ross. It would do you a lot of good.

You gotta be kidding? Who are you to tell me to read a book from some micky mouse man? Isn't Hughie and old ager? I have better things to read, thank you very much.

 

[dad]

Tried it. Doesn't do a thing for me. That's an important distinction because it's not a choice of mine. I feel a natural connectedness with the creation, if you will, and the words of men, indeed words of any kind, are not conducive to a spiritual experience - for me that is.

You do yours, I'll do mine. I do not seek a spiritual experience unless I can rest assured I am not being tricked by a bad spirit, or set up to be possesed, or misled, etc. I do not want to get tripped up by the enemy of men's souls, who would love to destroy all men if he could. I want the God of Love who gave His Own son to give me eternal life. I want His priceless Holy Sprit that is beyond compare. I want any spiritual helper or angel He might send. But not just any old spiritual experience.

 

[nvxplorer]

You do yours, I'll do mine. I do not seek a spiritual experience unless I can rest assured I am not being tricked by a bad spirit, or set up to be possesed, or misled, etc. I do not want to get tripped up by the enemy of men's souls, who would love to destroy all men if he could. I want the God of Love who gave His Own son to give me eternal life. I want His priceless Holy Sprit that is beyond compare. I want any spiritual helper or angel He might send. But not just any old spiritual experience.

Thank you, and I wish you well. I knew we could come to an agreement.

 

[Osiris]

To be honest, the Gospels are reliable enough that one should not need a divine intervention to believe other than the blessing of the Holy Spirit on the human heart.

Blessing of the Holy Spirit? How can you tell? People can only 'claim' or assume.

And I think that is your opinion that the gospels are reliable. I find that the middle man is never necessary! Self proclaimed prophets are the middle men between God and humanity. We wouldn't have to worry about whether the gospels are reliable or not, because God would tell us he is real, just the same way God is claimed to have spoken to the prophets.

 

[Matthew777]

Blessing of the Holy Spirit? How can you tell? People can only 'claim' or assume.

"Faith is different from proof; the latter is human, the former is a gift from God." - Blaise Pascal

You see, human reason cannot give you the ultimate truth. Reason can only tell you what is the most likely to be true. The best that reason can do is show you its limits. Once you have studied the historical record and realized that Jesus is the Christ, you will have to take that leap in order to have real faith in Him.

And I think that is your opinion that the gospels are reliable.

Not mere opinion but a tried and true fact, my friends.

Self proclaimed prophets are the middle men between God and humanity.

The prophets proclaimed the coming of Christ and the Father confirmed it at his baptism. Jesus never claimed to do or say anything by his own authority but by his father who sent him.

We wouldn't have to worry about whether the gospels are reliable or not, because God would tell us he is real, just the same way God is claimed to have spoken to the prophets.

Humans are in the downward spiral of sin. The only cure for this common illness is the atoning blood of the Lord. The Gospels are our reliable historical record of His message, His sacrifice, and His resurrection which confirms our hope.

 

[coolstylinstud]

[

God, I love this picture.

THat is hilarious, im stealing it !!!!!!!!!!![/QUOTE]

Can i jst hit you now are you really that full of it

 

[Numenor]

But if I remember correctly the hindu gods are just that gods. Wheras God is the Almighty creater of heaven and earth and all things, and all spirits. Big difference!

Are you saying that, Hindu and Muslim gods, for example, are real, and that they were created by the Christian God?

 

[Manic Depressive Mouse]

Regardless of how many witnesses, or whether there was any truth to your story, I know there are many spirits involved in hinduism, as well as most other religions, and even non religious endeavors, whether they know it or not! But if I remember correctly the hindu gods are just that gods. Wheras God is the Almighty creater of heaven and earth and all things, and all spirits. Big difference!

This is where your "evidence" system fall appart. Because for God to exist he has to be the only God, therefore the only spiritual force. People said they saw a Hindu God, but if God is the only God how can a Hindu one exist?

Honestly, accepting what people believe as "fact" is just utterly rediculous. If I believe that little fairy's move the planets round the sun is that fact dad? I'm thinking outside the box, but it's all a load of hogwash.

Science gets results. If you are right about them missing out half the picture they wouldn't be able to do that. If the spirit world directly affected the physical world all of science would be useless. It isn't, so the spirit world must not affect the physical world and is thus irrelevant to science and the accuracy of it.

QED, you're talking rubbish.

 

[DJ_Ghost]

he is not making up the definition for the term metaphysics it does mean "after physics"

I didn’t say he was making up the definition of metaphysics, I said he was making up the word he wants to use in its place.

and referred to time and or place of the writings with reference to the work he had done on physics, it had nothing to do with transcendence. that is read into the word generations later.

So you agree it is how the term is used now then? In relation to science I mean? Good so my point that a replacement is not needed stands.

Also if you want a strict interpretation of how the term was used in relation to Aristotle's work it was not used independently at all but as part of the phrase “ta meta ta physika” which does not mean “after physics” as Dad claims but the “books that come after the books about physics." That is the origin of the word 'metaphysics' . So Dads insistence that the word relegates the spiritual to second place after the physical is non-sense in both the context of how the word is used today (Transcending physics) and in how it was applied to Aristotle's work (The books he wrote after he wrote books about physics).

Ghost

 

[DJ_Ghost]

You gotta be kidding? Who are you to tell me to read a book from some micky mouse man? Isn't Hughie and old ager? I have better things to read, thank you very much.

I've got to back you up here Dad. Telling you not to post here again till you have read a particular author is disgraceful. It is dictatorial and insulting and you are quite right to tell mathew where to get off.

Ghost

 

[Electric Sceptic]

Jesus was detected by many, even after rising from the dead.

Except that this 'many' didn't write anything or leave any record of this sight (except for the gospels, of course). This man, dead three days, came back to life and walked around...and not one historian of the day wrote about it.

The flood was detected by many as well, most of whom were washed away.

Except that no global flood ever happened. Many local floods, of course, have been and continue to be detected.

 

[Edx]

Except that this 'many' didn't write anything or leave any record of this sight (except for the gospels, of course). This man, dead three days, came back to life and walked around...and not one historian of the day wrote about it. .

Nor about an eclipse and earthquake that caused graves to open, after which the dead "saints" crawled out of their graves to go wondering around downtown Judea. No one seemed noticed that either. Tell you what, I sure would notice Zombies.

Ed