And - surprise, surprise - all these texts evangelising christianity end up coming to the conclusion that christianity is correct!Matthew777 said:
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And - surprise, surprise - all these texts evangelising christianity end up coming to the conclusion that christianity is correct!Matthew777 said:Well, two main aspects of reality must be considered.
The uncaused first cause required by Big Bang cosmology:
Creation and Big Bang Cosmology
Dr. William Lane Craig
http://www.leaderu.com/offices/billcraig/docs/creation.html
The historical fact of the resurrection of Christ:
The Evidence For Jesus
Dr. William Lane Craig
http://www.leaderu.com/offices/billcraig/docs/rediscover2.html
Evidence for the Resurrection
by Josh McDowell
http://www.leaderu.com/everystudent/easter/articles/josh2.html
Electric Sceptic said:And - surprise, surprise - all these texts evangelising christianity end up coming to the conclusion that christianity is correct!
Would you paste a few relevant quotes from those articles, Matthew?Matthew777 said:Well, two main aspects of reality must be considered.
The uncaused first cause required by Big Bang cosmology:
Creation and Big Bang Cosmology
Dr. William Lane Craig
http://www.leaderu.com/offices/billcraig/docs/creation.html
The historical fact of the resurrection of Christ:
The Evidence For Jesus
Dr. William Lane Craig
http://www.leaderu.com/offices/billcraig/docs/rediscover2.html
Evidence for the Resurrection
by Josh McDowell
http://www.leaderu.com/everystudent/easter/articles/josh2.html
nvxplorer said:I have a question for you, and I don't mean to stir things up, but I'm curious. Is there any record of the historical Jesus outside the Gospels?
Matthew777 said:Well, two main aspects of reality must be considered.
The uncaused first cause required by Big Bang cosmology:
Creation and Big Bang Cosmology
Dr. William Lane Craig
http://www.leaderu.com/offices/billcraig/docs/creation.html
The historical fact of the resurrection of Christ:
The Evidence For Jesus
Dr. William Lane Craig
http://www.leaderu.com/offices/billcraig/docs/rediscover2.html
Evidence for the Resurrection
by Josh McDowell
http://www.leaderu.com/everystudent/easter/articles/josh2.html
nvxplorer said:I have a question for you, and I don't mean to stir things up, but I'm curious. Is there any record of the historical Jesus outside the Gospels?
No, despite Matthew's blithe assurances, there is not one single record of the historical Jesus outside the gospels. The only mentions of him in extra-gospel sources are years or decades after his death, mentioning him at second hand, as the founder of a movement. It's as if we had not one single record of Martin Luther King except for records written today talking about "black civil rights, a movement founded by Martin Luther King".nvxplorer said:Would you paste a few relevant quotes from those articles, Matthew?
I have a question for you, and I don't mean to stir things up, but I'm curious. Is there any record of the historical Jesus outside the Gospels?
Osiris said:There was another link that talked about the Big Bang, I really didn't see how that could prove the historicy of the bible.
Ooooooh, so you resort to insult when people don't agree with you. Let me try it and see how it works...Matthew777 said:This statement only verifies your ignorance and closedmindedness. A serious, impartial study of both topics would show the existence of the Trancendent.
The Big Bang does not prove the necessity of any god, much less a personal one.Matthew777 said:Ultimately, the Big Bang proves the necessity of a personal God.
Electric Sceptic said:No, despite Matthew's blithe assurances, there is not one single record of the historical Jesus outside the gospels.
You might try giving the insults to those who disagree with you a break. Not a very good witness for Jesus - you know, love and all that?Matthew777 said:Is this closedminded ignorance striking again?
Early Historical Documents on Jesus Christ
http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/08375a.htm
Electric Sceptic said:You might try giving the insults to those who disagree with you a break. Not a very good witness for Jesus - you know, love and all that?
Jesus was detected by many, even after rising from the dead. The flood was detected by many as well, most of whom were washed away. Love, I'd say is God, and is detected in one form or another worldwide! As far as devising our own laws of the spirit, I'd say they need to check out with the bible. I think the laws are already devised by God, all we can do is study them as best we can. So, nothing really all that 'individual' about it.nvxplorer said:Dad,
I'm going to grant your assertion of the spiritual. Here's the problem. Since the spiritual can only be "detected" on an individual basis, there's no way you can show the spirirual is consistent for everyone. You can devise your own "laws" of spirit, but your laws may not apply to the spirits of others.
You and I can both observe the physical, but we cannot know each others spiritual experience.
Matthew777 said:Was King David not a good witness of the Lord?:
"The fool says in his heart, There is no God."
Psalm 14:1
What about Saint Paul?:
"But if weor even an angel from heavenwere to preach a different gospel than the one we preached to youthen let him be eternally damned!" Galatians 1
Thank you. I'm going over this now. The pagan sources come from people who weren't alive during Jesus lifetime. Jesus' contemporaries Philo and Josephus aren't exactly what I was looking for either. I'm looking for something like a Roman record or something written by an author/scribe outside the gospel who either witnessed Jesus work, or knew of it. Something during Jesus' lifetime.Matthew777 said:Well, of course. Jesus Christ is one of the most well-supported figures of ancient history.
Early Historical Documents on Jesus Christ
The historical documents referring to Christ's life and work may be divided into three classes: pagan sources, Jewish sources, and Christian sources. We shall study the three in succession...
dad said:Jesus was detected by many, even after rising from the dead. The flood was detected by many as well, most of whom were washed away....
.Osiris said:Not only boys...
[No, girls too, of all colors, and weights, and heights, etc etc]
But if you think that way, you are only thinking inside the box... you are limiting what spirits really are... that they inside themselves have sbirits, that when spirits die, sbirits live on....
[A parable is not equal in all mouths. The bible, for example, as the premier, best selling authority on spirits clearly doesn't support this impishly shallow ill conceived idea. So, although it may be a silly idea out of the box of physical only based science, it is also out of the revealed truth of God's word. It also is out of common sense, and reason.]
It's funny how when there is brain damage, spirits don't seem to do anything...... or ... or... maybe spirits only work if brains work!
[How do you know? Have you studied cases of damaged brains worldwide to come up with some results? I don't think Lazurus's brain had anything to do, for example with him being raised from the dead after some days of death!]
I don't see why not, do you? The thing I ask is not if spirits are just real, but are they of God, and good? The bible tells me the acid test.Osiris said:My neighbor told me that he saw God Krishna appear to him. He also told me that 50,000 other people saw this too. I didn't really speak to any of the 50,000 other people, but I guess 50,000 witnesses to Krishna must mean that Krishna is true, right?
The limits is a good way to put it. The limits of the box. If we can't stetch them we are all doomed! The bible clearly tells us they will be more than stretched as heaven and the new earth comes. Why would I not also take His word that physical only present limits were not there to stop the flood, or men living a thousand years, or plants growing quickly, etc? Hec, yes, we are limited thus now, but were not and will not be, according to the Living God!Matthew777 said:Stretching the limits by insisting that our understanding of the Bible must contradict physical reality.
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