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biggles53

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The bible was posted long ago. You getting it?

So what....!? If Harry Potter is still read by kids 500, 1000 years from now, that will mean that Hogworts becomes a real school....!?

Not true! Time is not known to exist where the stars are. You observe IN our spacetime, and under our laws.

"Not known" by whom, outside of fantasy dwellers like yourself...?

Flattery will get you nowhere. The bible does describe a nature that is not like this one, don't blame me.

Again.....SO WHAT...!? The Odyssey that Homer wrote "describes a nature that is not like this one" too....give me concrete reasons why I should prefer EITHER as an explanation for the world we see...?

No one can show what was not there! Science can't show this fundamental basis for all it's claims....the present state in the past or future. Period. Really.

And you cannot show what you claim WAS there...! And that's the death knell for your ridiculous claim....you have NOTHING to back it up...!

Science made claims and it must do more than rest on beliefs! God made claims, and showed He was right in ways He chose, and that does not include so called science. Get it Bud?

Oh really...? Show me just ONE example where there has been a disagreement between the scriptures and what we know from science, where the scriptures have been shown to be true and science wrong...!

C'mon.....just ONE.....
 
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biggles53

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I've never heard of anything disproven.

Of course not.....you still believe in a flat earth, a geocentric solar system, diseases caused by demons, the existence of witches, four legged insects, avian bats, striped sticks as a breeding plan, a global flood, a 6000 year old planet,......need I continue...?
 
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EternalDragon

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Of course not.....you still believe in a flat earth, a geocentric solar system, diseases caused by demons, the existence of witches, four legged insects, avian bats, striped sticks as a breeding plan, a global flood, a 6000 year old planet,......need I continue...?

Most of that is untrue and a distortion of scripture to try to discredit
the bible. Any rational person with common sense can see through those
pathetic attempts.

So then you are left with a young earth and a flood that deposited dead
things in sediment all over the earth, which is the truth.
 
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dad

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So what....!? If Harry Potter is still read by kids 500, 1000 years from now, that will mean that Hogworts becomes a real school....!?
Embrace whatever spirits you like. God has had His hand in actual history. Too bad the kids are so potterized and Gomorahized and so called science fablized that they don't know which end is up.
And you cannot show what you claim WAS there...
Yes I can, but your problem is that the show doesn't include science which cannot show any state of the past!! You have opinion based on nothing. I have God's word and history, as well as all the science you do, and then some! Top that!



Oh really...? Show me just ONE example where there has been a disagreement between the scriptures and what we know from science,
Creation! Where man and the stars came from! The flood!
where the scriptures have been shown to be true and science wrong...!
That depends on who is looking and what they are looking for. The truth is given in such a way that one must want it, and seek it.
 
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anyathesword

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So what....!? If Harry Potter is still read by kids 500, 1000 years from now, that will mean that Hogworts becomes a real school....!?



"Not known" by whom, outside of fantasy dwellers like yourself...?



Again.....SO WHAT...!? The Odyssey that Homer wrote "describes a nature that is not like this one" too....give me concrete reasons why I should prefer EITHER as an explanation for the world we see...?



And you cannot show what you claim WAS there...! And that's the death knell for your ridiculous claim....you have NOTHING to back it up...!



Oh really...? Show me just ONE example where there has been a disagreement between the scriptures and what we know from science, where the scriptures have been shown to be true and science wrong...!

C'mon.....just ONE.....

To bad the Bible wasn't all written in one time, but over a span of 1000 years! And by more than one author unlike Harry Potter. Try using another book that you could compare to the Bible decantly...oh wait there is no other book like it!!!

The first general relativistic models predicted that a universe which was dynamical and contained ordinary gravitational matter would contract rather than expand. Einstein's first proposal for a solution to this problem involved adding a cosmological constant into his theories to balance out the contraction, in order to obtain a static universe solution. But in 1922 Alexander Friedman derived a set of equations known as the Friedmann equations, showing that the universe might expand and presenting the expansion speed in this case.[13] The observations of Edwin Hubble in 1929 suggested that distant galaxies were all apparently moving away from us, so that many scientists came to accept that the universe was expanding.
Metric expansion of space - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Ok so we have here as the first models saying that the universe was dynamical and the matter would contract. Then we have Einstein trying to solve a STATIC universe solution. It wasn't until 1922 that Friedman sayed the universe MIGHT expand. Ok so basically people or SCIENTISTS thought that the universe was either contracting or staying static. This is in the 1900s, my friend.


Now to the Bible.

Job 9:8
He alone stretches out the heavens _ and treads on the waves of the sea.
Psalm 104:2
The LORD wraps himself in light as with a garment; _ he stretches out the heavens like a tent
Isaiah 40:22
He sits enthroned above the circle of the earth, _ and its people are like grasshoppers. _He stretches out the heavens like a canopy, _ and spreads them out like a tent to live in.
Isaiah 42:5
This is what God the LORD saysÑ _the Creator of the heavens, who stretches them out, _ who spreads out the earth with all that springs from it, _ who gives breath to its people, _ and life to those who walk on it
Isaiah 44:24
ÒThis is what the LORD saysÑ _ your Redeemer, who formed you in the womb: I am the LORD, _ the Maker of all things, _ who stretches out the heavens, _ who spreads out the earth by myself,
Isaiah 45:12
It is I who made the earth _ and created mankind on it. _My own hands stretched out the heavens; _ I marshaled their starry hosts.
Isaiah 48:13
My own hand laid the foundations of the earth, _ and my right hand spread out the heavens; _when I summon them, _ they all stand up together.
Isaiah 51:13
that you forget the LORD your Maker, _ who stretches out the heavens _ and who lays the foundations of the earth, _that you live in constant terror every day _ because of the wrath of the oppressor, _ who is bent on destruction?
Jeremiah 10:12
But God made the earth by his power; _ he founded the world by his wisdom _ and stretched out the heavens by his understanding.
Jeremiah 51:15
ÒHe made the earth by his power; _ he founded the world by his wisdom _ and stretched out the heavens by his understanding.
Zechariah 12:1
The LORD, who stretches out the heavens, who lays the foundation of the earth, and who forms the human spirit within a person, declares: 2 ÒI am going to make Jerusalem a cup that sends all the surrounding peoples reeling. Judah will be besieged as well as Jerusalem.

Evidence from Science Pointing to a Creator

Ok so approximatly when were these books written in?

Who wrote the Bible? | Comprehensive list of who wrote each book of the Bible

All before 443 BC, between 1657 BC and 443 BC. About 2300 years BEFORE the theories of relativity came around, and the models were wrong! The Bible already said the the heavens or universe stretches/expands, but scientists thought the opposite!

DONE!
 
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PsychoSarah

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Most of that is untrue and a distortion of scripture to try to discredit
the bible. Any rational person with common sense can see through those
pathetic attempts.

So then you are left with a young earth and a flood that deposited dead
things in sediment all over the earth, which is the truth.

It talks about killing witches, pretty clearly. I don't think that is much of a twisting of scripture.
 
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biggles53

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To bad the Bible wasn't all written in one time, but over a span of 1000 years! And by more than one author unlike Harry Potter. Try using another book that you could compare to the Bible decantly...oh wait there is no other book like it!!!

The first general relativistic models predicted that a universe which was dynamical and contained ordinary gravitational matter would contract rather than expand. Einstein's first proposal for a solution to this problem involved adding a cosmological constant into his theories to balance out the contraction, in order to obtain a static universe solution. But in 1922 Alexander Friedman derived a set of equations known as the Friedmann equations, showing that the universe might expand and presenting the expansion speed in this case.[13] The observations of Edwin Hubble in 1929 suggested that distant galaxies were all apparently moving away from us, so that many scientists came to accept that the universe was expanding.
Metric expansion of space - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Ok so we have here as the first models saying that the universe was dynamical and the matter would contract. Then we have Einstein trying to solve a STATIC universe solution. It wasn't until 1922 that Friedman sayed the universe MIGHT expand. Ok so basically people or SCIENTISTS thought that the universe was either contracting or staying static. This is in the 1900s, my friend.


Now to the Bible.

Job 9:8
He alone stretches out the heavens _ and treads on the waves of the sea.
Psalm 104:2
The LORD wraps himself in light as with a garment; _ he stretches out the heavens like a tent
Isaiah 40:22
He sits enthroned above the circle of the earth, _ and its people are like grasshoppers. _He stretches out the heavens like a canopy, _ and spreads them out like a tent to live in.
Isaiah 42:5
This is what God the LORD saysÑ _the Creator of the heavens, who stretches them out, _ who spreads out the earth with all that springs from it, _ who gives breath to its people, _ and life to those who walk on it
Isaiah 44:24
ÒThis is what the LORD saysÑ _ your Redeemer, who formed you in the womb: I am the LORD, _ the Maker of all things, _ who stretches out the heavens, _ who spreads out the earth by myself,
Isaiah 45:12
It is I who made the earth _ and created mankind on it. _My own hands stretched out the heavens; _ I marshaled their starry hosts.
Isaiah 48:13
My own hand laid the foundations of the earth, _ and my right hand spread out the heavens; _when I summon them, _ they all stand up together.
Isaiah 51:13
that you forget the LORD your Maker, _ who stretches out the heavens _ and who lays the foundations of the earth, _that you live in constant terror every day _ because of the wrath of the oppressor, _ who is bent on destruction?
Jeremiah 10:12
But God made the earth by his power; _ he founded the world by his wisdom _ and stretched out the heavens by his understanding.
Jeremiah 51:15
ÒHe made the earth by his power; _ he founded the world by his wisdom _ and stretched out the heavens by his understanding.
Zechariah 12:1
The LORD, who stretches out the heavens, who lays the foundation of the earth, and who forms the human spirit within a person, declares: 2 ÒI am going to make Jerusalem a cup that sends all the surrounding peoples reeling. Judah will be besieged as well as Jerusalem.

Evidence from Science Pointing to a Creator

Ok so approximatly when were these books written in?

Who wrote the Bible? | Comprehensive list of who wrote each book of the Bible

All before 443 BC, between 1657 BC and 443 BC. About 2300 years BEFORE the theories of relativity came around, and the models were wrong! The Bible already said the the heavens or universe stretches/expands, but scientists thought the opposite!

DONE!

Oh my, my......... This is probably the biggest 'fail' you have presented so far...!

Where is the disagreement...? Where, in all of that repetitive text, is there a claim that the universe is EXPANDING....!?

The word "stretched"..... Is that what you are basing this pathetic case upon...?? How does that demonstrate an EXPANDING universe...? If I say that I stretched myself out on the floor, am I insinuating that I am expanding...? If I say that my farm stretches for 10 kilometres, am I insinuating that the farm is continuing to expand...? If I tell a traveller that he still has a long 'stretch' to go to reach his destination, am I meaning that he'll never get there, because the distance is continually expanding...? If you stretch your sweater because you didn't wash it properly, does it continue to expand...??

The use of that word in those scriptures is clearly used to mean something like 'spread out' or 'laid out'......it has NOTHING to do with the realisation that we obtained via the scientific method that our universe is continually and acceleratingly expanding....

Bit of a stretch, don't you think....!?
 
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biggles53

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Oh...and this...from YOUR source...! Did you think I wouldn't check it...?

"Hugh Ross has referred to some of these passages in his writing to correlate with the evidence for fine-tuned expansion of the universe. He was criticized by William Lane Craig for taking the interpretation of scripture far beyond what could possibly have been understood by the original audience for those scriptures. "
 
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dad

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It talks about killing witches, pretty clearly. I don't think that is much of a twisting of scripture.
That was for a people long ago in a world where witches would kill them if they did not make sure justice was done first.
 
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dad

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Oh...and this...from YOUR source...! Did you think I wouldn't check it...?

"Hugh Ross has referred to some of these passages in his writing to correlate with the evidence for fine-tuned expansion of the universe. He was criticized by William Lane Craig for taking the interpretation of scripture far beyond what could possibly have been understood by the original audience for those scriptures. "
Accepting that the universe is expanding because of a redshift interpretation based on a foolish belief system is trusting man. Better to trust God.
 
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biggles53

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Accepting that the universe is expanding because of a redshift interpretation based on a foolish belief system is trusting man. Better to trust God.

No....it's trusting in the evidence that is before our eyes......gods are irrelevant in that observation.....
 
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lesliedellow

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Accepting that the universe is expanding because of a redshift interpretation based on a foolish belief system is trusting man. Better to trust God.

I would stick to the gospels of Matthew, Mark, Luke and John for now, and leave aside the Gospel According to St Michael and St Justa.
 
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TLK Valentine

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No....it's trusting in the evidence that is before our eyes......gods are irrelevant in that observation.....

Unless the gods are trying to deceive us...
 
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anyathesword

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Oh my, my......... This is probably the biggest 'fail' you have presented so far...!

Where is the disagreement...? Where, in all of that repetitive text, is there a claim that the universe is EXPANDING....!?

The word "stretched"..... Is that what you are basing this pathetic case upon...?? How does that demonstrate an EXPANDING universe...? If I say that I stretched myself out on the floor, am I insinuating that I am expanding...? If I say that my farm stretches for 10 kilometres, am I insinuating that the farm is continuing to expand...? If I tell a traveller that he still has a long 'stretch' to go to reach his destination, am I meaning that he'll never get there, because the distance is continually expanding...? If you stretch your sweater because you didn't wash it properly, does it continue to expand...??

The use of that word in those scriptures is clearly used to mean something like 'spread out' or 'laid out'......it has NOTHING to do with the realisation that we obtained via the scientific method that our universe is continually and acceleratingly expanding....

Bit of a stretch, don't you think....!?

So explain to me what it means to stretch out the universe? What would happen if God stretches out the universe like a tent?

I'm not insinuating anything, all these verses are talking about the heavens, not about destinations, distance, sweaters, I don't know what else.

Synonyms for stretching includes expansion. Look it up yourself.

What does it mean then to stretch out the universe? NOT laid out..but STRETCHED out?

The claim is in the text itself. God already knew what He was doing and what He can do with the heavens. He inspired the writers to write it down probably not even realizing the significance of what they wrote. And way before science got busy for sure.
 
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anyathesword

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Oh...and this...from YOUR source...! Did you think I wouldn't check it...?

"Hugh Ross has referred to some of these passages in his writing to correlate with the evidence for fine-tuned expansion of the universe. He was criticized by William Lane Craig for taking the interpretation of scripture far beyond what could possibly have been understood by the original audience for those scriptures. "

Ok? Other sources will say the same thing, these verses imply the heavens being stretched out, expanding, etc. Such as this website:

In the Beginning: Compelling Evidence for Creation and the Flood - The Evidence
 
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Seipai

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Ok? Other sources will say the same thing, these verses imply the heavens being stretched out, expanding, etc. Such as this website:

In the Beginning: Compelling Evidence for Creation and the Flood - The Evidence

I dislike sources that do not properly link their claims. I tried to follow the links to their claim that the Sun should be spinning hundreds of times faster than it does now and ran into a dead end. So it looks to me like they made a claim without any evidence to back them up. How are we to tell that they quoted the source accurately? Or that they did not quote out of context?

Since so many creationists have quote mined in the past a wise Christian will go to lengths to avoid doing so. You article was not written by wise people.
 
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anyathesword

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I dislike sources that do not properly link their claims. I tried to follow the links to their claim that the Sun should be spinning hundreds of times faster than it does now and ran into a dead end. So it looks to me like they made a claim without any evidence to back them up. How are we to tell that they quoted the source accurately? Or that they did not quote out of context?

Since so many creationists have quote mined in the past a wise Christian will go to lengths to avoid doing so. You article was not written by wise people.

ok?

Here I copy the part that I am using:

Figure 208: Stretching Out Light. Unimaginable amounts of energy were required to stretch out the heavens—in effect, to lift massive gravitational bodies and move them billions of light years away from other gravitational bodies. The same energy source that stretched out space (represented above by the blue springs) also stretched out—redshifted—light (represented by the yellow arrows). The law of conservation of energy says that energy cannot be created or destroyed in an isolated system. According to the big bang theory, the universe is an isolated system, so that energy could not have come from within the universe, as the big bang theory claims. Instead, it came from outside the universe. Thus, we can see distant stars and galaxies in a young universe.

“The horizon problem” has perplexed advocates of the big bang theory for decades. That problem arises because opposite sides of the universe have not “contacted” each other—even at the speed of light—because of the great distances between them. Nevertheless they do have the same temperature and other physical properties. The stretching explanation easily explains this, because all matter was initially confined to a volume only a few light days in diameter. Therefore, temperatures throughout that volume reached equilibrium before the stretching began, probably by DAY 4 of the creation week.

In the Beginning: Compelling Evidence for Creation and the Flood - The Evidence
 
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