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[lesliedellow]

Saying it was good over and over doesn't mean it can't be allegory.

It is a strong indication that Genesis 1 is not history. Nobody writes history with constantly recurring phrases in it. Liturgy or poetry, maybe.

There are at least two different non literal ways in which Genesis 1 can be read. One is as part of an ancient liturgy, and the other is as a polemic against the surrounding pagan religions (attributing to the God of Israel responsibility for all the things surrounding cultures attributed to pagan deities).

 

[anyathesword]

I mean that Satan was in the creature (serpent) and spoke to Eve. So if we call him the ol serpent, that would be more than just a casual description. The serpent never used to be a snake, or crawl on the ground, that was a curse, I assume that the creature had for allowing itself to be possessed. No?

Possibly. I also think that the curse was symbolic also. To crawl on the floor and to eat dust is another way of saying that Satan will fight with humans because they were made from dust (Adam).

Doesn't a serpent crawl on the ground like a snake?

I do not think God chose to curse the animal, because snakes today are not cursed and they are His innocent creation. God cursed Satan himself and used the description of snake to describe what he will be doing for the rest of his life until he gets to be put in hell for eternity. He will fight and try to destroy humans because he can destroy the body and the soul.

Also creatures never decide to be possessed or not. They can be however.

 

[PsychoSarah]

It is a strong indication that Genesis 1 is not history. Nobody writes history with constantly recurring phrases in it. Liturgy or poetry, maybe.

Poetry has repetition, but it was a poor choice in how it was used. It made it of lower quality.

 

[anyathesword]

It is a strong indication that Genesis 1 is not history. Nobody writes history with constantly recurring phrases in it. Liturgy or poetry, maybe.

The recurring phrases signify importance and the perfection in the creation. The way God created the world, et al. was by talking. He said, then it happened. Saying it was good, is saying that it was fine and without error.

 

[PsychoSarah]

Possibly. I also think that the curse was symbolic also. To crawl on the floor and to eat dust is another way of saying that Satan will fight with humans because they were made from dust (Adam).

Doesn't a serpent crawl on the ground like a snake?

I do not think God chose to curse the animal, because snakes today are not cursed and they are His innocent creation. God cursed Satan himself and used the description of snake to describe what he will be doing for the rest of his life until he gets to be put in hell for eternity. He will fight and try to destroy humans because he can destroy the body and the soul.

Also creatures never decide to be possessed or not. They can be however.

A serpent is a reptile with a long thin body. It can be a snake, lizard, dragon, etc.

At least, if you go along with the fact that serpent is more of a descriptive word than a kind of animal.

 

[lesliedellow]

The recurring phrases signify importance and the perfection in the creation. The way God created the world, et al. was by talking. He said, then it happened. Saying it was good, is saying that it was fine and without error.

It might mean that, in which case it was in praise of God, but it is still not history.

 

[PsychoSarah]

The recurring phrases signify importance and the perfection in the creation. The way God created the world, et al. was by talking. He said, then it happened. Saying it was good, is saying that it was fine and without error.

If the world was without error, humans wouldn't have been tricked by the serpent, because if they were perfect, they would be incapable of making an incorrect choice.

 

[anyathesword]

Saying it was good over and over doesn't mean it can't be allegory.

If you are interested to see more descriptions of why Genesis is not allegory, here is a good article to skim through.

It is best to know in general what each author is writing and in what way throughout the Bible, then you can come to many conclusions about the way Genesis is written.

Should Genesis be taken literally? - creation.com

 

[TLK Valentine]

The recurring phrases signify importance and the perfection in the creation.

Actually, they signify oral tradition.

 

[anyathesword]

If the world was without error, humans wouldn't have been tricked by the serpent, because if they were perfect, they would be incapable of making an incorrect choice.

What about free will?

They were made perfect, male and female like God wanted them to be. And He gave them free will, the same as the Angels. So perfection does not qualify making choices.

 

[anyathesword]

Actually, they signify oral tradition.

Of course and what was written on clay tablets too.

 

[anyathesword]

A serpent is a reptile with a long thin body. It can be a snake, lizard, dragon, etc.

At least, if you go along with the fact that serpent is more of a descriptive word than a kind of animal.

Yes, ok.

 

[anyathesword]

It might mean that, in which case it was in praise of God, but it is still not history.

It isn't praising God, Genesis 1. Psalms are a great example of praising God. That is not how Genesis 1 is written

Psalm 145
A Davidic hymn.
1
I[a] exalt You, my God the King,
and praise Your name forever and ever.

2
I will praise You every day;
I will honor Your name forever and ever...

21
My mouth will declare Yahweh’s praise;
let every living thing
praise His holy name forever and ever.

 

[PsychoSarah]

It isn't praising God, Genesis 1. Psalms are a great example of praising God. That is not how Genesis 1 is written

Psalm 145
A Davidic hymn.
1
I[a] exalt You, my God the King,
and praise Your name forever and ever.

2
I will praise You every day;
I will honor Your name forever and ever...

21
My mouth will declare Yahweh’s praise;
let every living thing
praise His holy name forever and ever.

How would any deity remain humble if they listened to that all the time. Btw, what humble deity would want to hear that all the time?

 

[anyathesword]

How would any deity remain humble if they listened to that all the time. Btw, what humble deity would want to hear that all the time?

I guess that's what makes God so powerful and true. I don't know, I certianly wouldn't be able to be humble, but thank God, I'm not God!

 

[lesliedellow]

It isn't praising God

Having all that is being attributed to his omnipotent power isn't praising God.

How very interesting.

 

[lesliedellow]

How would any deity remain humble if they listened to that all the time. Btw, what humble deity would want to hear that all the time?

I don't know as God has got too much to be humble about.

 

[TLK Valentine]

Of course and what was written on clay tablets too.

You think it was written before it was spoken?

 

[PsychoSarah]

I guess that's what makes God so powerful and true. I don't know, I certianly wouldn't be able to be humble, but thank God, I'm not God!

Nothing then, suggests that god is humble then.

 

[dad]

Possibly. I also think that the curse was symbolic also. To crawl on the floor and to eat dust is another way of saying that Satan will fight with humans because they were made from dust (Adam).

To some small extent, maybe. However, we know that Satan has been busy accusing us in the halls of heaven above. Hardly a place one would crawl to He also has a position of prince of this present world.

Joh 16:11 -Of judgment, because the prince of this world is judged.


Joh 14:30 -Hereafter I will not talk much with you: for the prince of this world cometh, and hath nothing in me.


The curse for Satan was that the seed of the woman (notice that only one woman in history ever had seed herself with no man) would would destroy him one day.

The curses for the creature and man and woman are listed separately!

Doesn't a serpent crawl on the ground like a snake?

Not then! Otherwise it would not have been a big change and curse! Besides, the creature was chatting to Eve at the tree, I doubt Eve would have been with face on the dirt listening.

I do not think God chose to curse the animal, because snakes today are not cursed and they are His innocent creation.

Everything is relative. We could say man is a wonderful creature also. But we all were a lot more wonderful in our created state. If snakes were so wonderful we would not see that they were so changed in heaven, and a child would be safe near them!

God cursed Satan himself and used the description of snake to describe what he will be doing for the rest of his life until he gets to be put in hell for eternity.

Now that's a stretch.

He will fight and try to destroy humans because he can destroy the body and the soul.

??

Mt 10:28 -And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.(God)

Also creatures never decide to be possessed or not. They can be however.

Oh? How about mankind? Did Satan enter Judas against his will? While it is true that animals are not people, one suspects that some sort of collusion occurred in the serpent/Satan caper. Since the serpent also got judged, this seems to confirm the co guilt.