Crusades

Bin Qasim

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Christians were the only one to fight muslims for Bait-ul-Maqdas.(if I am not mistaken) B'coz it was theirs before Muslims got in Umar's khilafat. Then Christians again fought in 1099 and won. But Saladin Ayyoubi captured the place again in 1187(if I am not mistaken). Now throughtout the history of crusades, Muslims fought only Christians, no jews were to be seen. Even when Christians won in 1099, they killed non-christians in Bait-ul-Maqdas.(if I am not mistaken.)
Now when Christains have won it again and they could live there, why is it that only Jews migrate to Israel, not any christians?
pls do tell me!! or Christians do migrate but we don't hear it in News!!
am I right or wrong??
 

Abbadon

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My guess? Originally the Christians (and a fair amount of some that weren't really Christians) did the crusades because some people using religion as a political tool said that it was their job. Really the people behind it were probably thinking about the silk road (an important trade route). Those that were doing it for religious reasons thought that it would help pilgrimages or or insure that the Jews had a promised land.

Before the crusades, Jews, Muslims, and Christians actually did live together in the Middle-East. I guess that there are Christians living in Israel, though there are not as Christians there as Jews.

As for the news, there's always something a news media corporation won't talk about, every news media corporation (privately owned or government controlled) is corrupt by bias.
 
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HouseApe

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Bin Qasim said:
Christians were the only one to fight muslims for Bait-ul-Maqdas.(if I am not mistaken) B'coz it was theirs before Muslims got in Umar's khilafat. Then Christians again fought in 1099 and won. But Saladin Ayyoubi captured the place again in 1187(if I am not mistaken). Now throughtout the history of crusades, Muslims fought only Christians, no jews were to be seen. Even when Christians won in 1099, they killed non-christians in Bait-ul-Maqdas.(if I am not mistaken.)
Now when Christains have won it again and they could live there, why is it that only Jews migrate to Israel, not any christians?
pls do tell me!! or Christians do migrate but we don't hear it in News!!
am I right or wrong??

Maybe a few do, but why would Christians want to migrate to Israel? It is a tiny little piece of overpopulated desert.
 
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There's many christians that live in Israel.

Plus, many Jews migrate there as throughout the ages, Israel has been conqured time and time again, which means Jews were then carted off to all the parts of the world, and many decendants of these Jews that were moved wish to return to their promised land.

I'd love to visit Israel, it sounds like a glorious place to go.

The Crusades were started by Pope Urban II with his speach in 1095, where he promised all those that went on the crusade remission for their sins, which he really was just using it as a ploy to get back all the lands that were taken from him by the Muslim turks.

Pope Urban II's speach on November 27th, 1095

Pope Urban II
Call to Crusade
November 27, 1095


Most beloved brethren: Urged by necessity, I, Urban, by the permission of God chief bishop and prelate over the whole world, have come into these parts as an ambassador with a divine admonition to you, the servants of God.

I hoped to find you as faithful and as zealous in the service of God as I had supposed you to be. But if there is in you any deformity of crookedness contrary to God’s law, with divine help I will do my best to remove it.

For your brethren who live in the east are in urgent need of your help, and you must hasten to give them the aid which has often been promised them. For, as the most of you have heard, the Turks and Arabs have attacked them and have conquered the territory of Romania [the Greek empire] as far west as the shore of the Mediterranean and the Hellespont, which is called the Arm of St. George. They have occupied more and more of the lands of those Christians, and have overcome them in seven battles. They have killed and captured many, and have destroyed the churches and devastated the empire.

If you permit them to continue thus for awhile with impurity, the faithful of God will be much more widely attacked by them. On this account, I, or rather the Lord, beseech you and Christ’s heralds to publish this everywhere and to persuade all people of whatever rank, foot-soldiers and knights, poor and rich, to carry aid promptly to those Christians and to destroy that vile race from the lands of our friends. I say this to those who are present, it is meant also for those who are absent. Moreover, Christ commands it.

All who die by the way, whether by land or by sea, or in battle against the pagans, shall have immediate remission of sins. This I grant them through the power of God with which I am invested.

Let those who have been accustomed unjustly to wage private warfare against the faithful now go against the infidels and end with victory this war which should have been begun long ago. Let those who for a long time have been robbers, now become knights. Let those who have been fighting against their brothers and relatives now fight in a proper way against the barbarians. Let those who have been serving as mercenaries for small pay now obtain the eternal reward. Let those who have been wearing themselves out in both body and soul now work for a double honour. Behold! On this side will be the sorrowful and the poor, on that, the rich; on this side, the enemies of the Lord, on that, his friends, Let those who go not put off the journey, but rent their lands and collect money for their expenses; and as soon as winter is over and spring has come, let them eagerly set out on the way with God as their guide.

O what a disgrace if such a despised and base race, which worships demons, should conquer a people which has the faith of omnipotent God and is made glorious with the name of Christ! With what reproaches will the Lord overwhelm us if you do not aid those who, with us, profess the Christian religion!
 
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ServantofTheOne

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"O what a disgrace if such a despised and base race, which worships demons, should conquer a people which has the faith of omnipotent God and is made glorious with the name of Christ! With what reproaches will the Lord overwhelm us if you do not aid those who, with us, profess the Christian religion!"



was christianity only a white person's religion at that time?
 
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arunma

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ServantofTheOne said:
was christianity only a white person's religion at that time?

No. At the time, there were Christians living in Asia, Africa, and Palestine. In fact, the Europeans killed the Christians living in the middle east when they came to conquer Jerusalem. It's possible that European Christians were racists, but they hardly represent all of Christendom.
 
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Arthra

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I've visited Israel on Baha'i pilgrimage...particularly the Haifa area. I was very impressed with Haifa and nearby Akko which is becoming like a museum city.

Akko was the last Crusader stronghold and you can still see remnants of the fluer di lis in the capitals of the columns in underground vaults beneath the city.

I strongly recommend Christians Jews and Moslems to visit Israel and Jerusalem as it is the heritage of the great religions.

My own Faith has it's headquarters on Mount Carmel in Haifa.

See the Terraces on Mount Carmel:

http://www.bahaiworldnews.org/terraces/opening.en.html
C_Terr11.jpg
 
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He was talking to europeans, but there were Messianic Jews at that time as well living in the Arabian Crescent, which the "Christian" crusaders proceeded to slaughter as well.

So, yeah, it would mostly have been a white person's religion at that time due to most of europe being mostly "Chrsitian".
 
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BourbonFromHeaven

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S Walch said:
He was talking to europeans, but there were Messianic Jews at that time as well living in the Arabian Crescent, which the "Christian" crusaders proceeded to slaughter as well.

Hi,

Emphasis mine...

Can you tell which group you are reffering to?
 
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BourbonFromHeaven

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S Walch said:
Jews that have accepted Jesus Christ as the Messiah?

There were still Chrsitians dotted around the Arabian peninsula, including, what we would now call, Messianic Jews.

Do believe there weren't many "groups" at that time.

No as much as there are today anyway.

I was aware of what a messianc is, however

groups outside the mainstream of Judaism tend to form into communties. Such as the Ebonites and similiar groups. Did these groups have a name that I can look into them?

Are you familiar with them becuase of accounts of Crusaders chanceing apaun them or were they established communities?
 
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jlujan69

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ServantofTheOne said:
"O what a disgrace if such a despised and base race, which worships demons, should conquer a people which has the faith of omnipotent God and is made glorious with the name of Christ! With what reproaches will the Lord overwhelm us if you do not aid those who, with us, profess the Christian religion!"



was christianity only a white person's religion at that time?[/QUOTE]

Uh, it's quite likely he wasn't referring so much to skin color but rather as a whole people. In the OT, while the Jews had the same ethnic background as the Arabs, they nevertheless were described as a "race" of people. During the American Civil War, some of the Confederate muckety-mucks referred to the northerners as "that damned Yankee race". There seem to be slightly different meanings to the term race.
 
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Muslim

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jlujan69 said:
Uh, it's quite likely he wasn't referring so much to skin color but rather as a whole people. In the OT, while the Jews had the same ethnic background as the Arabs, they nevertheless were described as a "race" of people. During the American Civil War, some of the Confederate muckety-mucks referred to the northerners as "that damned Yankee race". There seem to be slightly different meanings to the term race.

There are divisions not only among race but also clans, tribes, and ethnicities within a certain race. But the way he was wording that statement is in such a way as to be catagorized as racism towards non-whites. Which is not very surprising at all within the catholic church during that time. Even today, Jesus is depicted as a white blonded haired man, even though he was a Jew.
 
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jlujan69

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Muslim said:
There are divisions not only among race but also clans, tribes, and ethnicities within a certain race. But the way he was wording that statement is in such a way as to be catagorized as racism towards non-whites. Which is not very surprising at all within the catholic church during that time. Even today, Jesus is depicted as a white blonded haired man, even though he was a Jew.

But were the Christians who were living in those lands of Caucasian descent or Semitic? If Caucasian, then perhaps the pope was making an ethnic slur. If they were Semitic, however, then it wouldn't make much sense to degrade only the Turk and Arab Semites to the exclusion of the Christian Semites. That's why I figured the term "race" referred to the Muslim conquerors. Of course, racism makes little sense anyway. Regarding the popular depiction of Jesus, you'll get no argument from me there. Figure it this way, if Jesus really were a blond haired, blue eyed hippie dude, Judas wouldn't have had to identify Him by kissing Him. He could have told the soldiers that Jesus was the "white boy" in the crowd.
 
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Canadian75

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jlujan69 said:
if Jesus really were a blond haired, blue eyed hippie dude, Judas wouldn't have had to identify Him by kissing Him. He could have told the soldiers that Jesus was the "white boy" in the crowd.


^_^ ^_^ ^_^ ROTFL!!!.....Love that comment. :thumbsup:

I've always had a problem with Jesus being portrayed as a "blond haired, blue eyed hippie dude."
 
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